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coastalmindset

Novice Developer Eyes Hotel/Condo Project In Downtown Greensboro

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Nice ideas, but unfortunatly that is all they are. Unless greensboro gets some real income and population growth, no national developer with REAL resources is ever going to consider investing in downtown.

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Nice ideas, but unfortunatly that is all they are. Unless greensboro gets some real income and population growth, no national developer with REAL resources is ever going to consider investing in downtown.

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Downtown Greensboro is truly becoming a destination. With momentum growing I expect to see more projects like this proposed.

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at 11-stories it would be about the height of the Greensboro Marriott downtown which is also 11-stories.

gsodt_b2.jpg

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I must say that I agree with kmurphy19662003 in that Greensboro is in need of some higher paying jobs and needs to do more to bring in better jobs. With good jobs come the population and the ability to support all these wonderful projects that are in the pipeline.

I would love to see a count of Greensboro's residential/office/retail space available and it's occupancy percentage. It seems like we keep building yet we have so much unoccupied space.

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I must say that I agree with kmurphy19662003 in that Greensboro is in need of some higher paying jobs and needs to do more to bring in better jobs. With good jobs come the population and the ability to support all these wonderful projects that are in the pipeline.

I would love to see a count of Greensboro's residential/office/retail space available and it's occupancy percentage. It seems like we keep building yet we have so much unoccupied space.

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cityboi

what does that have to do with this project?

Um, in case you didn't read the article it says that this guy is looking to build 25 to 30 Condo's that start at $550,000. With other projects in the pipeline such as the Centre Pointe project and this proposed Triumph Center, how many of these projects can the city of Greensboro support. I was simply agreeing with kmurphy19662003 in that in order for these projects to work we need to have a population boost and people need to start earning more income so they can do things like buy a $550,000 Condo.

My thought on the amount of available space in Greensboro is simply a commentary on the fact that there is a ton of empty space sitting out there in Greensboro and people don't seem to be buying into any of it. Specifically if you drive through the city there are Condos on just about every piece of land available and many of the haven't sold yet.

So in conclusion we are building much faster than the city is growing and we should be analyzing these projects very closely so we don't end up with more empty buildings. The only way to continue to make projects such as Mr. Adcox's proposed luxury condominium building work is to maintain an expanding job market. And it doesn't appear we are doing this which could lead to projects like the one proposed by Mr. Adcox to fail.

Oh and it has nothing to do with the building being a "high rise". It could be 1 story and take up 100 acres and it is still a concern of economic factors.

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cityboi

what does that have to do with this project?

Um, in case you didn't read the article it says that this guy is looking to build 25 to 30 Condo's that start at $550,000. With other projects in the pipeline such as the Centre Pointe project and this proposed Triumph Center, how many of these projects can the city of Greensboro support. I was simply agreeing with kmurphy19662003 in that in order for these projects to work we need to have a population boost and people need to start earning more income so they can do things like buy a $550,000 Condo.

My thought on the amount of available space in Greensboro is simply a commentary on the fact that there is a ton of empty space sitting out there in Greensboro and people don't seem to be buying into any of it. Specifically if you drive through the city there are Condos on just about every piece of land available and many of the haven't sold yet.

So in conclusion we are building much faster than the city is growing and we should be analyzing these projects very closely so we don't end up with more empty buildings. The only way to continue to make projects such as Mr. Adcox's proposed luxury condominium building work is to maintain an expanding job market. And it doesn't appear we are doing this which could lead to projects like the one proposed by Mr. Adcox to fail.

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26, novice developer, $30 million project? good luck. but it would add density to the skyline depending where its proposed. hope it works out!

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26, novice developer, $30 million project? good luck. but it would add density to the skyline depending where its proposed. hope it works out!

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So you'll have to excuse the fact that these number are not from 2007 but they are the most recent I could find and I think the show part of the concern with this unimpeded development without the addition of significant jobs to Greensboro:

Median Household Incomes:

2005 NC Average: $40,729

Greensboro:

2000: $39,661

2005: $36,733

Charlotte:

2000: $46,975

2005: $47,131

High Point:

2000: $40,137

2005: $40,778

Raleigh:

2000: $46,612

2005: $48,131

Wilmington:

2000: $31,009

2005: $36,904

Winston-Salem:

2000: $37,006

2005: $38,199

So from looking at these numbers I think it is safe to say we are the only city that showed a decrease in our median HH Income and that we are have the lowest Median HH Income for the major cities in the sate of NC. We are even significantly behind the state average. So where are all these people who can afford to buy these condos? And did anyone mention any of the recent national economic developments? i.e. the stock market making a correction or the fact that foreclosures are up by 92% for the country over last year. Just looking at the facts as I understand them. Info from city-data.com.

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what ever the median incomes are, its enough to make this projects happen. You cant argue with a developer that planning a $30 million condo hotel and is making it happen...and thats bottom line. We can talk about statistics til the cows come home but at the end of the day if a developer is moving forward with this project thats all that matters. BTW have you forgotten Greensboro is getting alot of jobs, FedEx, Honda Jet, Lenovo, RF Micro is expanding with 300 more jobs. Most of these are high paying jobs between $50,000 and $75,000 per year. Greensboro is growing and more jobs are coming! This satisfies the argument you were trying to make.

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what ever the median incomes are, its enough to make this projects happen. You cant argue with a developer that planning a $30 million condo hotel and is making it happen...and thats bottom line. We can talk about statistics til the cows come home but at the end of the day if a developer is moving forward with this project thats all that matters. BTW have you forgotten Greensboro is getting alot of jobs, FedEx, Honda Jet, Lenovo, RF Micro is expanding with 300 more jobs. Most of these are high paying jobs between $50,000 and $75,000 per year. Greensboro is growing and more jobs are coming! This satisfies the argument you were trying to make.

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So let's see, the most FedEx workers will make between $20,000 and $30,000, those HondaJet and RF Micro workers will be making between $55,000 and $75,000 in salary AND benefits (so they'll really make $40,000 to $60,000) and the Lenovo facility will be a distribution and return center so one could assume the workers will get paid somewhere in the $30k to $40k area. Not many of them will be able to afford $500,000 condos with those salaries. Didn't we learn anything yet about the manufacturing business and it's reliability?

I'm sorry if my commentary on concerns for these projects has come across as hope for these projects not to succeed. I am looking at the overall picture in our local economy and it isn't moving in the right direction, this is my opinion, yet we keep developing. I guess I should look at the fact that at least the developers are keeping people employed. At least we know there are plenty of workers to take these jobs when they get here since it was just announced the unemployment is up from 5.3% to 5.4% in July for the Triad's 12 county region (it was only 4.6% 3 months ago).

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more details have emerged about this hotel. It could be as tall as 13-STORIES and would have 60 to 80 hotel suites and 28 condos starting at $500,000. three penthouses would exceed $1 million. the building would include a day spa, restaurant, valet parking, room service and a concierge. The residents would have acess to housekeeping. developer John Adcox said it would be similar concept to a plaza hotel.

One site that is being looked at is a site diagnally from Center-City Park (southeast) at the corner of Davie and Friendly and is directly next to part of the tracts being looked at for Greensboro Triumph Center. He would not identify the other. But he has everything in place to make this project happen and is just waiting to find a home (land) for his project. He plans to make a formal announcement within 90 days and construction would start 5 or 6 months later. Unlike Center Pointe, the developer will not be asking for incentives and has the financing in place. In the condos, square footage would range between 2,500 to 4,000. The penthouse units would rage between 6,000 to 7,000 sq ft.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...RSTAFF/70824047

Here is the break down for potential towers planned or could be proposed for downtown Greensboro:

- 13-story boutique luxury hotel/condos

- 20 story 500 room 4-star luxury hotel

- 18 story (either condos or office)

- 15 story federal courthouse (this has been put on hold because of funding for the Iraq war)

- 30 story Center Pointe II tower (this has technically not been proposed yet but sources closte to Roy Carroll says he could have future plans to build this tower and their is evidence on Center Pointe that he will do it. The nother side of the building will have no windows or balconies)

If all these towers are built, Greensboro's skyline would look very impressive indeed

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I wouldn't be surprised to see the site near CCP win out. Parks and open spaces aren't just public places, but they also tend to be tools of economic development.

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These statistics are incorrect as the data set that they were pulled from also reports a population loss of 15,000 during the same time frame.

I also think cityboi has a point. There so much coming economically that's less than 5 years away and we don't know what else that would bring. As I've mentioned before, I always keep a "Why not Greensboro?" attitude when it comes to these things. It's not like downtown Greensboro's living options are only for the rich and elite! The pricer are not exactly sitting empty and as these articles continue to read, there continues to be interest in them. On the other hand, has anyone actually looked at the many "affordable" properties currently available? The amount of those would probably shock you. Don't forget that South Elm St redevelopment will bring more. I've seen the failure of Bellemeade Village mentioned here and there as a sign that downtown Greensboro's housing market is subpar. It failed because there were just too many pricey units for a market that wasn't really ready. I think total build out called for at least 200 units with prices starting at 250K?? I'd say that's unrealistic right now. We know nothing about the Triumph Center and I know that currently there are VERY FEW 500K, 600K plus properties currently available in Greensboro.

I'll continue to have high hopes for this project and others currently proposed.

So you'll have to excuse the fact that these number are not from 2007 but they are the most recent I could find and I think the show part of the concern with this unimpeded development without the addition of significant jobs to Greensboro:

Median Household Incomes:

2005 NC Average: $40,729

Greensboro:

2000: $39,661

2005: $36,733

Charlotte:

2000: $46,975

2005: $47,131

High Point:

2000: $40,137

2005: $40,778

Raleigh:

2000: $46,612

2005: $48,131

Wilmington:

2000: $31,009

2005: $36,904

Winston-Salem:

2000: $37,006

2005: $38,199

So from looking at these numbers I think it is safe to say we are the only city that showed a decrease in our median HH Income and that we are have the lowest Median HH Income for the major cities in the sate of NC. We are even significantly behind the state average. So where are all these people who can afford to buy these condos? And did anyone mention any of the recent national economic developments? i.e. the stock market making a correction or the fact that foreclosures are up by 92% for the country over last year. Just looking at the facts as I understand them. Info from city-data.com.

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I'll be very surprised to see if they can sell these. From what I've seen, the mentality of most Triad residents is that the suburbs is heaven. I'd like nothing more than for this to be constructed but the likeliness of it is very slim.

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I'll be very surprised to see if they can sell these. From what I've seen, the mentality of most Triad residents is that the suburbs is heaven. I'd like nothing more than for this to be constructed but the likeliness of it is very slim.

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It will be intersting to see if John Adcox will go with a sleek modern design for his tower or a more historic design or mayebe somewhere in between. Raleigh is building a similar tower but its much taller (42 stories) (The Soleil Center) It is a mixed use building with a hotel and condos.

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Justin Catanoso with the Triad Business Journal reported that a boutique hotel could be attached to the Elm Street Center which has a comedy club, Churhills' Resaurant and the Empire Room and 70,000 square feet of space for meetings. The folks at Elm Street Center want a hotel there. Now this could be the same developer (John Adcox) that is scouting land for a 13-story condo hotel, spa and restaurant. But Justin said with confidence there will be a new boutique hotel downtown within two years.

Here is the Empire and Regency Room that is part of the Elm Street Center. Its used for meetings, corporate events and weddings. We just might see that 13-story luxury boutique hotel and luxury condos attached to this and it could be one big hotel complex.

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The Empire/Regency Room use to be the old Thalheimers Department store which closed and move to Friendy Center in 1974 (now Macy's)

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here is the website link to the restaurant Churchhill's on Elm (use to be Hemingways Downtown) Churchhills is on the lower foor of the Elm Street Center.

http://www.hemingwaysdowntown.com/

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I will agree that a small boutique hotel would work well connected to elm street center. For once, this does make economic sense.

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