ACC Football Championship in Charlotte?

[kermit]

[sorry for the Sunday morning pessimism]

Despite Charlotte's past success with the championship game, this year will be substantially more difficult to pull off for the following reasons:

• Both teams (FSU and Georgia Tech) got thumped yesterday by SEC rivals
  
• Neither team has exciting post-season prospects -- see above (yes, the winner will go to the Orange Bowl but only as fodder)
  
• Both teams (along with Clemson) are discussing leaving the ACC
  
• Even in the best years Tech fans really don't travel (they are 6-6 this year)
  
• The weather forcast is pretty bad for next Saturday
  

None of this is meant to suggest that there is a better site for the ACC championship game than Charlotte (I don't think there is a better site). However, if the game has poor attendence this year it will be more the fault of the league than Charlotte. When John Swafford tries to blame Charlotte for the game's poor performance this year Charlotte power brokers should maintain a realistic perspective when it comes to negotiating the next contract.

[Durhamite]

[sorry for the Sunday morning pessimism]

Despite Charlotte's past success with the championship game, this year will be substantially more difficult to pull off for the following reasons:

• Both teams (FSU and Georgia Tech) got thumped yesterday by SEC rivals
  
• Neither team has exciting post-season prospects -- see above (yes, the winner will go to the Orange Bowl but only as fodder)
  
• Both teams (along with Clemson) are discussing leaving the ACC
  
• Even in the best years Tech fans really don't travel (they are 6-6 this year)
  
• The weather forcast is pretty bad for next Saturday
  

None of this is meant to suggest that there is a better site for the ACC championship game than Charlotte (I don't think there is a better site). However, if the game has poor attendence this year it will be more the fault of the league than Charlotte. When John Swafford tries to blame Charlotte for the game's poor performance this year Charlotte power brokers should maintain a realistic perspective when it comes to negotiating the next contract.

Still, Charlotte isn't a huge (leisure or destination) tourist city, so the product will primarily be the draw for the ACC championship game on any given year....with MD leaving for the B1G, FSU and Clemson rumored to be moving to the B12, the ACC membership will consist of Miami, Ga Tech, NC schools, VA schools and bevy of northern schools (Uconn, etc)...basically, the Big East 2.0 + ACC basketball schools. If so, I'd imagine the game gets shifted to DC (FedEx field).

If the ACC can hold on to FSU and Clemson, manage to get Notre Dame for all sports (football, by 2015 or so), I think the champ game will remain in Charlotte and league to get markedly better in football...At this point, I think that's the only way the ACC will remain intact as is today, get Notre Dame fully on board with a renegotiated contract in the 25+ mill range/team, other wise, it's the aforementioned scenario, the Big East 2.0 + ACC basketball schools.

Not to pour salt on the wound, but UNC is technically the coastal division winner (if not for the 1-year bowl ban), FSU and UNC would have been a sell out...or if Miami had not self-imposed a bowl ban, it would have been FSU/Miami, a bigger draw than FSU/Ga Tech....seems the ACC is plain on cursed in football...at least right now.

[HopHead]

^I would argue that ALL post season college football games are about the matchup, regardless of location with exception to maybe the Rose Bowl. Last year the Big 10 Championship game, which is held in Indianapolis a city well known for hosting tournaments and even the Super Bowl, had to PAY some people to attend their championship game so it looked like the stadium was more full than it really was. Even the Orange Bowl, which is in the location of all locations of Miami, regularly has empty seats because of the matchup (ACC vs. Big East). I'd also be pretty confident in betting a large sum of money that even Atlanta's SEC championship game would be a hard draw if there was a matchup like Vanderbilt and Mississippi for the SEC title where they didn't have a say in the BCS championship. The main reason the SEC championship does so well every year is because it's largely a semi-final game for the national championship. The SEC has won the last 6 national title games and is poised to win another this season. Can't say I would blame BofA stadium for not being full for Florida State and Georgia Tech. Heck, GT can barely fill their own stadium on a regular basis so I don't count on them traveling well. If there were some way to bypass the rules (e.g. if divisions didn't matter) and Clemson and Florida State were both 11-1 heading into this weekend for a shot at the national title game, you wouldn't be able to find a ticket. Much like the SEC championship.

[mad_park]

No way the place is more than 3/4 full. There are currently 8500+ tickets listed on StubHub and they are starting at $4.50 (less than the admission to a high school football game).

https://www.stubhub....1-2012-4041292/

Edited to remove post from LAST year indicating that it was a sellout.

[Urbanity]

^uhm - My post you quoted is over a year old and is in reference to last year's game.

[mad_park]

^uhm - My post you quoted is over a year old and is in reference to last year's game.

whoops!!!!!!

[Durhamite]

^I would argue that ALL post season college football games are about the matchup, regardless of location with exception to maybe the Rose Bowl. Last year the Big 10 Championship game, which is held in Indianapolis a city well known for hosting tournaments and even the Super Bowl, had to PAY some people to attend their championship game so it looked like the stadium was more full than it really was. Even the Orange Bowl, which is in the location of all locations of Miami, regularly has empty seats because of the matchup (ACC vs. Big East). I'd also be pretty confident in betting a large sum of money that even Atlanta's SEC championship game would be a hard draw if there was a matchup like Vanderbilt and Mississippi for the SEC title where they didn't have a say in the BCS championship. The main reason the SEC championship does so well every year is because it's largely a semi-final game for the national championship. The SEC has won the last 6 national title games and is poised to win another this season. Can't say I would blame BofA stadium for not being full for Florida State and Georgia Tech. Heck, GT can barely fill their own stadium on a regular basis so I don't count on them traveling well. If there were some way to bypass the rules (e.g. if divisions didn't matter) and Clemson and Florida State were both 11-1 heading into this weekend for a shot at the national title game, you wouldn't be able to find a ticket. Much like the SEC championship.

The SEC has 2 things working in their favor for the SEC championship game:

1) Many programs with rich football tradition, plus the SEC is comprised of mostly flagship schools, meaning more fans; I'd wager to bet if Vandy and Ole Miss were good enough to make the SEC champ game, it'd still be a sell out...ole Miss is a flaghip Univ and has meaningful football tradition.

2) Location, location, location - Atlanta is a tourist city and easy drive for most SEC schools

Understandably, the product makes a difference but being a destination city is another reason to attend the game. Indianapolis isn't a destination city and Miami is simply too far from Big East and ACC schools (other than the U). Neither the ACC or Big East have great football tradition save a few schools - having a number of small private and non-flagships schools doesn't help.

I'm not knocking Charlotte, there just isn't a compelling reason to visit; obviously things have improved in terms of nightlife,

[HopHead]

The SEC has 2 things working in their favor for the SEC championship game:

1) Many programs with rich football tradition, plus the SEC is comprised of mostly flagship schools, meaning more fans; I'd wager to bet if Vandy and Ole Miss were good enough to make the SEC champ game, it'd still be a sell out...ole Miss is a flaghip Univ and has meaningful football tradition.

2) Location, location, location - Atlanta is a tourist city and easy drive for most SEC schools

Understandably, the product makes a difference but being a destination city is another reason to attend the game. Indianapolis isn't a destination city and Miami is simply too far from Big East and ACC schools (other than the U). Neither the ACC or Big East have great football tradition save a few schools - having a number of small private and non-flagships schools doesn't help.

I'm not knocking Charlotte, there just isn't a compelling reason to visit; obviously things have improved in terms of nightlife,

I have family that are Vandy alum and have been there to see football games. Trust me, they don't give two sh**s about football compared to the likes of LSU, Georgia and Alabama. They are the SEC's Duke. They are mainly there to improve the conferences's academic profile but don't win national titles in basketball. And you're missing my point about that game. If it's Mississippi versus Vandy with no shot at a national title, same scenario as FSU vs. GT, it wouldn't sell out. No disagreement that the SEC is far and away a better conference with it's record and tradition (and that should be evident in my previous post), but it's all about the matchup. Case in point... Tennessee vs NC State in the Kick Off classic in Atlanta this year, had thousands of empty seats (55k in attendence per wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A_College_Kickoff) . And for the record, I'm by no means saying Charlotte is anywhere near Atlanta in terms of city status (far from it). But the point being, it all comes down to the match up.

[Missmylab4]

This ACC matchup game is terrible, the conference is losing any respect it had with football. It's becoming only a Bball superpower and nothing else.

[Durhamite]

I have family that are Vandy alum and have been there to see football games. Trust me, they don't give two sh**s about football compared to the likes of LSU, Georgia and Alabama. They are the SEC's Duke. They are mainly there to improve the conferences's academic profile but don't win national titles in basketball. And you're missing my point about that game. If it's Mississippi versus Vandy with no shot at a national title, same scenario as FSU vs. GT, it wouldn't sell out. No disagreement that the SEC is far and away a better conference with it's record and tradition (and that should be evident in my previous post), but it's all about the matchup. Case in point... Tennessee vs NC State in the Kick Off classic in Atlanta this year, had thousands of empty seats (55k in attendence per wiki: http://en.wikipedia....College_Kickoff) . And for the record, I'm by no means saying Charlotte is anywhere near Atlanta in terms of city status (far from it). But the point being, it all comes down to the match up.

I am CFB junkie so I understand Vandy's status with respect to the SEC but you miss my point. If Vandy or Ole Miss make it the SEC Champ Game, it will still be a sellout. Odds are if you make the SEC Champ Game, you're pretty good and the bandwagoners will come out in droves.....plus Ole Miss is a flagship school and could easily send 40,000+ fans to support a good team. If the FSU/GT game were in Atlanta versus Charlotte, it probably be a sellout given the location. Of course it's about the match up but Atlanta is in the heart of SEC country, so the location and city status guarantees a big draw regardless of who plays.

[Durhamite]

This ACC matchup game is terrible, the conference is losing any respect it had with football. It's becoming only a Bball superpower and nothing else.

The ACC never really had any respect in football, other than FSU, sometimey Clemson and Ga Tech...occassional good years from UVA and UNC, etc.. When Va Tech, BC and Miami joined the ACC it was a coup for enhancing the conference image in football. Problem is Miami and FSU went into a tailspin (poor coaching) and the depth of the league wasn't strong enough to compensate. The SEC beefed up coaching and recruiting making it even harder for ACC teams to compete recruiting wise, especially in the areas with the same geographic footprint.

Sports is cyclical but the ACC's bottom came at the wrong time when CFB became King money with TV deals being renewed. I think the coaching/recruiting has improved significantly within the ACC, meaning Swofford and team realize the amount of money required to hire good coaches. However, it might be too late, given the climate of money grab and conference realignment. Teams are following the money, see Terrapins, especially those that spend money like crackheads and need a quick fix.

If the ACC can somehow weather the storm of conference realignment the next 3-5 years, and given the current stable of coaches, it's going to be what Swofford had hoped it would be 10 years ago...and yes, Charlotte is the best home for the ACC champ game given the geographic of current membership.

[HopHead]

I am CFB junkie so I understand Vandy's status with respect to the SEC but you miss my point. If Vandy or Ole Miss make it the SEC Champ Game, it will still be a sellout. Odds are if you make the SEC Champ Game, you're pretty good and the bandwagoners will come out in droves.....plus Ole Miss is a flagship school and could easily send 40,000+ fans to support a good team. If the FSU/GT game were in Atlanta versus Charlotte, it probably be a sellout given the location. Of course it's about the match up but Atlanta is in the heart of SEC country, so the location and city status guarantees a big draw regardless of who plays.

Georgia Tech can't even come close to selling out their stadium for most games now, which is roughly 18-20k less seats and they are based in Atlanta. How would playing in a stadium with that many more seats be that much different? If you put the Georgia/Alabama game in Charlotte, it would sellout in a heartbeat... Heck, you could put that game in just about any stadium east of the Mississippi and it would likely sell all 75k seats. I think it's obvious that we both have two different opinions on how this would pan out. If hell freezes over and Vandy/Mississippi played for the SEC title, we can bet on a good six pack of beer to see who's right!

[Durhamite]

The novelty of a champ game is different than a run of the mill regular season game, so Ga Tech would conjure up a contigent of bandwagan fans if the game were in Atlanta. But still, all you need is for one of schools to have a huge fan base (FSU) and it'll come close to a sell out....heck at those stub hub prices, I'm think about buying 10 or so tickets and haul a bunch of family/kids to the game this Sat....forecast is for a nice day and probably a good game. I think the game might do better with attendance than I previously thought..

CFB doesn't usually do well in large metros/markets because of the presence of other professional sports. Ga Tech, U MD, BC, etc. just aren't going to pull in the crowd. Even USC (Trojans) has trouble filling up the coliseum in LA.

If the ACC can just hang in there, the CFB is gonna get better/competitive....it'll never be the SEC for obvious reasons.....a bunch of flagship schools in state/locations where the college team is treated/followed like a the pro team.

Yep, you got that right, odds of Ole Miss/Vandy competing against each other in the SEC champ game are 1 in a million...one of the reasons the SEC Champ will continue to be a sell out, even when teams aren't competing to play for a national champ. At least one of the traditional football giants will have a good year, guaranteed large representation in Atlanta.

[kermit]

Pro: Charlotte looked better than Atlanta in aerial shots

Pro: The weather was good: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/01/3700997/fowler-weather-only-good-thing.html

 

Con: Mediocre ticket sales (65,000)

Con: Poor attendance (estimated 30,000 -- about the same as the Pac12 championship)

 

I think Charlotte did as well as could be expected given the matchup. It does sound the SEC had the only successful conference championship yesterday, even Nebraska fans stayed away from the Big 10 game:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323751104578153942803728504.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsForth

[HopHead]

Yea, the actual game attendance was on par with all the other non-SEC title games. I think the game officials should've found a way to put more people in the lower level like they did for the Big-10 title game in Indy. Almost the entire upper level was empty there, but it looked better on TV because the lower bowl was mostly full. 

 

On a side note, the Belk Bowl will be getting Duke and Cincinnati for its matchup. I'm not sure there could be a worse pairing for teams. In years past, the bowl game would get at least one team that travels well such as NC State, Louisville or Clemson. Instead they get stuck with two teams that are among the worst in fan following (for football). Would love to see this bowl game get a SEC team, even if it's like the 6th team from that conference. That would at least almost guarantee a decent attendance every year and not have to hope that Clemson, NC State or VA Tech gets an invite. 

[kermit]

^ I agree with the SEC team desire for the Belk bowl. A 6 win USC, Tennessee or Auburn team of the future would really fill the place up.Even Ole Miss would bring more fans than Cincinatti. I suspect that we are not the only ones with the SEC team ambition however.

 

East Carolina would be another team that would _really_ well here (attendance wise)

[Durhamite]

The SEC champ game has become quasi semi-final for BCS champ game the past few years, thus the extreme interest. Realistically, the conference champ games is a waste of time and hopefully will be eliminated down the road. There should be a 32-team playoff that begins the week after the season ends (this past week) with high seed home teams hosting games. The losing 16 teams would then recieve bowl invitations since most notable bowls take place a month from now. Then the following week, 16 teams becomes 8, 8 becomes 4. 3 weeks after the season ends for final 4 to take shape and all bowl assignments completed. Teams losing early would still get 2-3 weeks off before bowls and the final four 2 weeks to rest before the games.

 

More football=more $$.....please give me a break about class or the academic aspect....CFB and CBB are essentially minor league farm teams now.

[kermit]

I biked around the stadium / Mint street / Southend around 4pm yesterday (game day). The weather was crappy (cold, grey but no rain), and Southend was essentially deserted. There were fewer than a dozen FSU tailgating groups in Southend (strangely none of them decided to cluster together). As a whole, Southend looked like a wasteland four hours before the game. for some reason I saw no duke fans tailgating (I wonder if they don't know how?)

 

Fanfest was moderately crowded, but given that most folks were drinking bud light and watching the SEC championship game, fanfest did not have a fun vibe at 4.

 

On the other hand, downtown was busy (and appeared to be dominated by duke fans), lots of happy folks walking between bars. There was also a substantial cluster of FSU tailgaters in the lot at Tryon and 3rd (adjacent to Latta arcade).

 

The telecast of the game didn't do Charlotte any favors. The first words out of Brent Musberger were "Welcome to Charlotte, NC..." and I did not notice a single establishing shot of the skyline or anything else outside the stadium.

 

Attendance appeared to be sub-optimal, although I am not sure that match-up could have sold out any stadium outside of Tallahassee.

 

Reason #768 to dislike duke was that they don't appear to like the train as a means of transportation. The Friday, Saturday and Sunday Piedmont consists were all the standard 3 coach plus one lounge/baggage car setups that are run on normal weekends. The CIAA, college breaks and even Panthers games can substantially goose weekend ridership, this ACC championship did not.

[nowensone]

^Slightly different take, we were in uptown Friday night, so many FSU students (and the band), I couldn't believe they traveled so well, not seen anything like that, then again, a number one ranking changes much I guess.  Didn't see a Duke hat for over an hour, as if they were hiding.  My normal haunts had bouncers and occasionally cover charges, was not pleased, it was crowded, but did get to try a few new places I wouldn't have otherwise.  What was really funny was the obvious division of Floridians, you had what I'm guessing were the transplants in shorts and maybe a light sweater, and then others bundled up completely and still freezing.    Anyway, game day might have been disappointing, but the nightlife Friday night was anything but, if I were younger I would have really loved it.

[WesleyHeightsWay]

The telecast of the game didn't do Charlotte any favors. The first words out of Brent Musberger were "Welcome to Charlotte, NC..."

"You are looking live at insert: city/town, state..." is always his opening line. He went on to heap praise on the city during the telecast.

And a lot of friends and fans of college football were surprised w the crowd size given it was Duke and most FSU fans were probably already looking ahead to Pasadena (and their wallets too).

[HopHead]

I only watched the game on TV and will say that for the most part the game was pretty well attended considering is was the #1 team in the country versus a football program, in state or not, with very little following and given little chance to win. I recall hearing they sold somewhere between 60-65,000 tickets. Also, compare it to last year's awful matchup, it looked like a positive result to me. A few FSU friends of mine that went to game also said they thought it was a good turnout both at the game and around uptown. Can't have FSU/Clemson or VA Tech everytime unfortunately.