Belk Place: Carolina Theater and Hotel Intercontinental

[HollySpringsTriangle]

9 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Really my issue is that in order to build a cultural asset like this in 2019 it’s an incredible undertaking that needs oodles of corporate welfare, subsidization and tons of public-private partnership. It just doesn’t happen, we don’t have Rockefeller’s giving back to the community anymore. People don’t wake up and say hey, let’s build a 1000 seat theatre. It’s irreplaceable. Let’s take Greensboro’s new performing arts center named after Steven Tanger, of Tanger Outlets. He has only covered 10% of nearly $80M. The rest is covered 50% by the city of Greensboro and 50% by private fundraising.


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Hey, I don't post a lot but wanted to chime in.  I disagree that people/families like the Rockefeller's don't exist anymore.  Take a look at Grand Rapids, Michigan- their downtown area is almost completely because of the gifts, grants, and donations by the DeVos and VanAndel Families, who started /own Amway, as well as The Meijer and Secchia families.  Because of them, Grand Rapids has arenas, museums, hotels, office space, a medical college, a Children's hospital, etc.   And not to the tune of a 10% donation.  Most of these projects have been primarily funded by them.  Maybe those types of  people/families do not exist in CLT, but they most definitely still exist.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HollySpringsTriangle said:

Hey, I don't post a lot but wanted to chime in.  I disagree that people/families like the Rockefeller's don't exist anymore.  Take a look at Grand Rapids, Michigan- their downtown area is almost completely because of the gifts, grants, and donations by the DeVos and VanAndel Families, who started /own Amway, as well as The Meijer and Secchia families.  Because of them, Grand Rapids has arenas, museums, hotels, office space, a medical college, a Children's hospital, etc.   And not to the tune of a 10% donation.  Most of these projects have been primarily funded by them.  Maybe those types of  people/families do not exist in CLT, but they most definitely still exist.  

And what did Charlotte's late billionaire give us? 

 

Heres hoping Tepper and Michael Jordan continue to give back to the community. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Guest

[joenc]

12 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Really my issue is that in order to build a cultural asset like this in 2019 it’s an incredible undertaking that needs oodles of corporate welfare, subsidization and tons of public-private partnership. It just doesn’t happen, we don’t have Rockefeller’s giving back to the community anymore. People don’t wake up and say hey, let’s build a 1000 seat theatre. It’s irreplaceable. Let’s take Greensboro’s new performing arts center named after Steven Tanger, of Tanger Outlets. He has only covered 10% of nearly $80M. The rest is covered 50% by the city of Greensboro and 50% by private fundraising.


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That's because they solving malaria and minor things like that.

I'm thinking of Seattle or San Francisco and their mega-billionaires. I think it has to do with Industrial vs Financial and Tech elites. Industrial elites really weren't mobile, so they had to give gifts locally and keep the locals happy - lest they decide to do something like heavily tax their immobile capital. Case in point, Amazon and New York. Also can't discount the knowledge and memories of revolution in Europe. Today, they think they are pretty secure.

Edited March 6, 2019 by joenc

[queensguy06]

Maybe I am missing some of the details in how this was organized, but from my understanding 2/3 of the entire "Wachovia Cultural Campus" (Gant, Betchler, Mint) was funded by corporate entities. 

Quote

After large contributions from Duke Energy and Leon Levine Foundation resulted in the $83 million goal being reached, the Wells Fargo Cultural Campus became Levine Center for the Arts.  On October 1, 2010, the $56 million 145,000-square-foot Mint Museum Uptown opened, completing the $127 million campus.

Additionally, Hugh McColl has certainly had philanthropic influences on the Charlotte Metro and beyond.  Besides being the main driving force of revitalizing center city Charlotte in the 90s (a place you didn't want to be after 5pm), he's recognized for the following:

Quote

McColl has supported a broad range of academic, civic and arts causes for Charlotte, the state of North Carolina and the Southeast — strongly encouraging Charlotte's urban redevelopment (enabled by Bank of America's revitalization of Fourth Ward and building of Gateway Village in Third Ward),playing a key role in Charlotte's attracting the Carolina Panthers National Football League and the Charlotte Hornets National Basketball Association franchises,supporting Habitat for Humanity,chairing The Forum for Corporate Responsibility (2003), financing inner-city and minority-owned businesses, encouraging light and high-speed rail, and supporting civil rights and gay rights.

 He endowed the Charlotte Children's Theatre which includes the McColl family Theater, funded the McColl Center for Visual Art(a Charlotte-based organization that promotes the visual arts in the Southeast).  In 1998 and 2004, Jane Spratt McColl, with Hugh McColl, donated 400 acres on the Catawba River in York County, South Carolina near Rock Hill, South Carolina for an environmental museum, possibly to be named the Museum of Life and the Environment, with building design by architect William McDonough.

So to say there is no philanthropy in Charlotte is disingenuous at best.  And I am sure there is plenty more, those are just the things I found in a 3 min. Google search. 

[KJHburg]

the Levine family (the founder of Family Dollar), the Blumenthals, the Belks etc etc.  There are plenty of people who give in this city PLENTY drive around town and look at names on things.  Belk family already gave millions for Belk Theater too. 

[queensguy06]

13 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Really my issue is that in order to build a cultural asset like this in 2019 it’s an incredible undertaking that needs oodles of corporate welfare, subsidization and tons of public-private partnership. It just doesn’t happen, we don’t have Rockefeller’s giving back to the community anymore. People don’t wake up and say hey, let’s build a 1000 seat theatre. It’s irreplaceable. Let’s take Greensboro’s new performing arts center named after Steven Tanger, of Tanger Outlets. He has only covered 10% of nearly $80M. The rest is covered 50% by the city of Greensboro and 50% by private fundraising.

In all fairness, the fortunes of Rockefeller and his fellow robber barons were built on the suffering of tens of thousands of employees - child labor, horrendous and extremely unsafe working conditions, low wages, etc.  If that is a fair trade off to build shiny theaters and art galleries - ones that none of his employees could ever afford to attend - then I think you're extremely misguided.

[Guest]

I never once said Philanthropy is dead. I'm just saying nobody should be scoffing at Carolina Theatre, just because "we could build another one anywhere." I'm simply stating what it takes to build a theatre in 2019, and that cultural institutions aren't just built by companies, they are built by moving mountains. That every single person should be thankful for this happening.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Guest

[queensguy06]

16 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I never once said Philanthropy is dead. I'm just saying nobody should be scoffing at Carolina Theatre, just because "we could build another one anywhere." I'm simply stating what it takes to build a theatre in 2019, and that cultural institutions aren't just built by companies, they are built by moving mountains. That every single person should be thankful for this happening.

13 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Really my issue is that in order to build a cultural asset like this in 2019 it’s an incredible undertaking that needs oodles of corporate welfare, subsidization and tons of public-private partnership. It just doesn’t happen, we don’t have Rockefeller’s giving back to the community anymore. People don’t wake up and say hey, let’s build a 1000 seat theatre. It’s irreplaceable.

 

I hope you can see how your comments could be misconstrued    We can certainly agree on the undertaking that this particular project has needed - "moving mountains" is quite appropriate in this instance.  Some of that though, I feel can be attributed to mismanagement by the foundation(s) that have been overseeing the renovation going back two decades.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this project change hands at least one or two times by different non-profits?  I might be mistaken in that.  My point is, while we don't have many apples to apples comparisons in Charlotte, I think this project has been plagued by several issues that have only exacerbated its delay/uncertainty and that I don't necessarily agree that given the same opportunity with an identical project it would be nearly as necessary to move said mountains.  This is an outlier rather than par for the course, if that makes any sort of sense.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, queensguy06 said:

 

I hope you can see how your comments could be misconstrued    We can certainly agree on the undertaking that this particular project has needed - "moving mountains" is quite appropriate in this instance.  Some of that though, I feel can be attributed to mismanagement by the foundation(s) that have been overseeing the renovation going back two decades.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this project change hands at least one or two times by different non-profits?  I might be mistaken in that.  My point is, while we don't have many apples to apples comparisons in Charlotte, I think this project has been plagued by several issues that have only exacerbated its delay/uncertainty and that I don't necessarily agree that given the same opportunity with an identical project it would be nearly as necessary to move said mountains.  This is an outlier rather than par for the course, if that makes any sort of sense.

I'm more saying that John D Rockefeller would have died with 4x as much wealth as Jeff Bezos in todays dollars. And contributed far more cultural and institutional infrastructure than likely anyone on the planet ever has, and ever will. People give the city like $8-10M to have their name on something, he gave billions haha.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Guest

[videtur quam contuor]

I am with RDF here.

Some of these local philanthropists are seeking naming opportunities as much as a gift for improvement/charity/ etc. I have no idea how much local philanthropy is driven by tax planning.

The Seattle billionaires demonstrate examples.The late  Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft "invested" in play: professional sports teams, a magnificently grand yacht and other playthings of the ultra rich . Bill and Melinda Gates are for world health in a big way. Jeff Bezos appears to wish to give half his wealth to his wife and her lawyers plus buy classic cultural institutions: Washington Post. Howard Schultz wants to spend his money on political consultants. One of those four would be traditional philanthropy.

The great fortunes of the past carried an implication of guilt for the distressed conditions the industrial workers and common folk experienced. Thus a drive for betterment through immense giving to arts, architecture and health care.  Motivation in the contemporary period appears different. Joenc mentioned a possible reason.

 

[NC0775]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article227172409.html

Near the end of this article the writer states that the Intercontinental Hotel is expected to open later this year.  Is that even possible given the current state of the construction site?

[CLTProductions]

1 minute ago, nc0775 said:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article227172409.html

Near the end of this article the writer states that the Intercontinental Hotel is expected to open later this year.  Is that even possible given the current state of the construction site?

Not even remotely possible. Dated information that was reused. There isn’t a world where it could get built in fitted in 10 months lol 

[Matthew.Brendan]

China could do it

[j-man]

19 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

Not even remotely possible. Dated information that was reused. There isn’t a world where it could get built in fitted in 10 months lol 

I do believe they copied and pasted old information, but there have been towers larger than this assembled in less time then that..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/chinese-construction-firm-erects-57-storey-skyscraper-in-19-days

Edited March 6, 2019 by j-man

[Scribe]

I would be happy if it was ready to roll by RNC... but at this pace, I doubt it.

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, j-man said:

I do believe they copied and pasted old information, but there have been towers larger than this assembled in less time then that..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/chinese-construction-firm-erects-57-storey-skyscraper-in-19-days

My brother lives in China and he lived in brand new apartment that was already falling apart.  I wouldn't brag on Chinese construction too much.  

[CLT>]

19 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Really my issue is that in order to build a cultural asset like this in 2019 it’s an incredible undertaking that needs oodles of corporate welfare, subsidization and tons of public-private partnership. It just doesn’t happen, we don’t have Rockefeller’s giving back to the community anymore. People don’t wake up and say hey, let’s build a 1000 seat theatre. It’s irreplaceable. Let’s take Greensboro’s new performing arts center named after Steven Tanger, of Tanger Outlets. He has only covered 10% of nearly $80M. The rest is covered 50% by the city of Greensboro and 50% by private fundraising.


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Lot's of people in this community do step up, maybe not to the tune that people used to. It's also a corporate town, so people are very methodical and selective in their giving. The Belk family gave $8m for this project, and other donors have stepped in with as much collectively. Charlotte has lots of donors that give large amounts in relation to their wealth, but they tend to not usually be the Billionaires or 000 millionaires, but the double-digit millionaires. The theatre/lobby portion of this project has already been completely funded (but they're always looking for more)! The issues are with the hotel developer (they're on their second), but if the hotel deal falls apart, I would look to see an epicenter type situation where the lower floors are constructed including the lobby, and the hotel portion is on hold till it can happen. As stated previously on these boards as of last fall, they were targeting a theatre opening of Fall/Winter 2020. The hotel opening date has been projected for 2021.

[Guest]

Lot's of people in this community do step up, maybe not to the tune that people used to. It's also a corporate town, so people are very methodical and selective in their giving. The Belk family gave $8m for this project, and other donors have stepped in with as much collectively. Charlotte has lots of donors that give large amounts in relation to their wealth, but they tend to not usually be the Billionaires or 000 millionaires, but the double-digit millionaires. The theatre/lobby portion of this project has already been completely funded (but they're always looking for more)! The issues are with the hotel developer (they're on their second), but if the hotel deal falls apart, I would look to see an epicenter type situation where the lower floors are constructed including the lobby, and the hotel portion is on hold till it can happen. As stated previously on these boards as of last fall, they were targeting a theatre opening of Fall/Winter 2020. The hotel opening date has been projected for 2021.

Again. Keenly aware how philanthropy in Charlotte works. :-) I grew up with the Belks.

And people should read the last part, super valuable. I think it’s probably going to happen still, after conversations with people involved with the project.



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[nakers2]

On 3/6/2019 at 9:40 AM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

And what did Charlotte's late billionaire give us? 

 

Heres hoping Tepper and Michael Jordan continue to give back to the community. 

Jordan can't even tip, what makes you think that ass would give a dime to fixing Charlotte up? Only reason he even has a place here is because of the Hornets. 

[Nick2]

6 hours ago, nakers2 said:

Jordan can't even tip, what makes you think that ass would give a dime to fixing Charlotte up? Only reason he even has a place here is because of the Hornets. 

I can't even begin to list all the great stuff Michael Jordan has done but this article tried. Please read it.

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/02/15/jordan-week-michael-jordan-philanthropy

[go_vertical]

15 hours ago, nakers2 said:

Jordan can't even tip... 

I've actually heard this exact thing from two separate people that used to work in the service industry. One was at Del Frisco's where he and his entourage would often reserve the private table down in the wine cellar, rack up tabs well into the thousands, and tip literally next to nothing. 

[nakers2]

I don't care how generous you are. If you're generally considered a jerk, then throwing money to charities isn't going to make up for it. Charles Barkley himself said in an interview that he went to eat with Jordan and he left a paltry tip, I think he said it was something close to 2% or so, Jordan had paid for dinner, but Barkley palmed the waiter a 100 bucks as they left and apologized on Jordan's behalf. I'm sorry, I respect the man as a basketball player, but that's about it. Having worked in the service industry for a long time, I can't deal with people who don't tip or tip poorly. I stopped seeing someone because they "never tip on their first visit anywhere."  I'm not even one of those guys who think rich people should tip more because they're rich. A millionare can afford 20%. 

[Tyrone Wiggum]

8 hours ago, go_vertical said:

I've actually heard this exact thing from two separate people that used to work in the service industry. One was at Del Frisco's where he and his entourage would often reserve the private table down in the wine cellar, rack up tabs well into the thousands, and tip literally next to nothing. 

Cool Story Bro:

I was a high school basketball stud, and as a Charlotte area product, I was invited to Carolina Basketball Camp between my sophomore and junior year of high school.  That was the first summer MJ was playing baseball with the Barons, and even though the story was that MJ almost never attended camp, he actually happened to make it back for the UNC alumni game during the Southern League All Star Weekend.  We're of course going ape crap because, ya know MJ, and though he was clearly rusty he still put on a hell of a show.   

At any rate, there were a few other recruits with me (I guess they scheduled us all to be there that week because MJ), and after the alumni game Coach Smith asked myself and the other two recruits there  to stick around for a little three on three action (after the game everybody else made the trek from the Dean Dome back up to Granville, which was and is a hike).  Ed guarded Jeff McInnis, Jermaine was on Eric Montross, and I got stuck guarding MJ.  So lucky.

At any rate, in a make-it take-it game to 11 we were actually tied at 10 with the ball.  I made a double V cut using Jermaine as what might be generally described as a fluid screen, got a few steps behind MJ and went up for the dunk.  He still had incredible closing speed and went up to challenge, only fatigue and rust and god knows what else meant that I had the advantage; I dunked the ball and smashed his ring finger against the rim.  MJ being MJ, he was, of course, furious.

We won! We beat MJ! I DUNKED ON MJ! I'm getting a scholly offer for sure!

Unfortunately for me, MJ was piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssssssed.  He orders everybody off the court but me and challenges me to a game of 1 on 1.  I go first, which is a pretty short possession because he steals the ball from me in roughly three seconds and goes on an insane scoring spree.  He literally doesn't miss a single shot on his way to being up 10-0, and at 7-0 he switches lefty and starts doing almost trick shots from deep to rub it in my face.  Anyway, it's game point, and he is disgusted with me.  He pushes the ball into my chest and says "wouldn't want you to tell mommy I was mean to her little baby" in a sing-songy four year old's voice, meaning I have at least one last chance to score.  This time, I not nearly as careless, and I'm able to cross him over for what I think is another dunk.  Only he's playing possum: MJ does this weird spin move and pivots back to the basket, goes up as high as a I do, and pins my hand and the ball against the glass.  I can't physically let go as 90% of my arm above my elbow is above the rim and I fall awkwardly.

Well, not just awkwardly.  I land in a way that makes the Gordon Heyward injury look like a sprain; my tibia was poking out of my skin.  Coaches Gut, Smith, and Ford are horrified (I was in shock but I remember Coach Ford running for a phone to call a doctor).  MJ he just laughs in disgust, gives Coach Smith the death stare, and walks off the court without a single word.  Ed is crying and Jermaine and Eric pick me up and start rushing me towards the ambulance exit.

I spent most my junior year in PT, and though I played as a senior, I was a step slower and significantly less springy, and though I still got offers for low D-1 ball, I instead matriculated to Princeton on a need-based scholarship. 

Many years passed.

About five years ago I was in Charlotte at a Susan Komen muckity muck for corporate Masters of the Universe, physicians, celebrity donors, and other self-important types, giving a key note speech at Myers Park Country Club.  MJ was in attendance as one of the sponsors and as someone who gave a metric crap ton of money to the cause, and it was truly - and I mean this sincerely - truly touch ingto hear him speak about how breast cancer had affected women in his life and how much it meant to him; let's put it this way he got emotional enough that he broke the tension with a Crying Jordan reference.

After all the speechifying, he approached me and told me he remembered me from that day in the Dean Dome.  We spent a good fifteen minutes talking about life - mostly my life, as he peppered me with questions - and my involvement with Komen following the death of my wife from breast cancer, which at that time was only 15 months prior.  At the end of our conversation he invited me to come to his box and watch the game as his guest.  Duh, of course I'm doing that.

I show up and it's a little awkward for me because he's my only connection to the box and I'm there explaining to everybody what I do and how we re-connected.  At any rate, I'm shaking hands till the anthem starts and then the starting lineups, then shaking more hands.  I'm still hob-knobbing when MJ rolls in a few minutes after the first TV timeout.  We chat for about 30 seconds when he says, "hey, you hungry? Let's get some food."

I open the first tin and it's nothing but chicken legs.  Only, EVERY SINGLE ONE has been sawed in half.  I open the next tin.  Same thing.  I look up and over at MJ and he is laughing his ass off.  I knew he was legendary for holding grudges.  But this level of pettiness?  Maybe he just has a different sense of humor.  Also, I'm his guest in a luxury box eating free food and drinking free beer so I'll get over it, right?  Then, I have the bright idea to laugh it off when I say "very funny.  Is there any white meat?" to which he responds, hand to god "I knew you were coming so I had all the breasts removed."  He then leans close to me, takes a swig of his beer in my face, and wanders off.

Boys and girls, that is the competitor Michael Jordan is.  You didn't get a tip?  The man rubbed my wife's death in my face because I dunked on him 18 years prior.

/s

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Tyrone Wiggum

[SydneyCarton]

Part of the problem is that there are not many very rich people in Charlotte who can give a lot.  I think that the only billionaires in NC are the two founders of SAS, and they’re in Cary.

NY, by contrast, has eighty-one billionaires and scores of residents with hundreds of million of dollars.  Philanthropy (in terms of building cultural facilities, etc.) is alive and well there.  Two easy examples are the Vessel at the HY and Heatherwick’s floating park at Pier 55.  These projects both cost over $50m each, and yet, they were fully funded by gifts from billionaires.

Edited March 10, 2019 by SydneyCarton

[Crucial_Infra]

There are four NC billionaires. Two from SAS, one from Quintiles, and Charlotte’s CD Spangler.  Jordan is considering a billionaire on some lists too.