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Belk Place: Carolina Theater and Hotel Intercontinental


Andyc545

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I think he is talking about the church on Brevard and 3rd

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&...C&encType=1

www.graceonbrevard.com

the church is open. Has been for a couple weeks. Its absolutely awesome. The pursuit group is incredibly busy and right now getting financing is extremely tough, encore was close, but has regressed a bit. It is not gone and will be built.

remember this company is something like 10 people, but has 6-7 various projects happening

Edited by BUILDIT
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I have heard there are four or less contracts for condos in Encore. I don't see Pursuit getting financing of any type now or any time in the future for this project. Wasn't it One Charlotte that had financing pulled, even with 80% of units under contract?

Encore has 8 under contract and only needs one more to meet presale goals. One Charlotte had less than 20% under contract (99 penthouses, when only the top 20 floors have a skyline view, explain that please). You are thinking of 300 South Tryon, which had 80% of phase one under contract. The only reason it was not built is RBC (we presume) pulled out of becoming a large tenant in the office portion of the building. So the developer, with their amazing foresight saw our crazy tight market wasn't due to demand, decided not to go SPEC.

Edited by Guest
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Apparently this is still a go but construction won't start before the end of this year. 7 of the 20 units are under contract and they seem to be getting a steady stream of inquiries but most people don't want to commit until the project is actually under construction. Hopefully this will break ground sometime next year. I am really looking forward to the historical theater renovation.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/business/story/376793.html

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  • 3 weeks later...

We all hope it will happen. It would be a great project for Charlotte. Unfortunately though, I would bet hard against Pursuit making it happen. I have heard through the architecture grapevine that the architect that designed the tower had to lay off a bunch of people because they were not getting paid by Pursuit Group for all the work they did.

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^ I heard Liquid Design was down to just one or two people. I do not know if thats the reason however. Its a shame, I thought they had a talented shop.

I hope that isn't the case. I really liked what I've seen of their work. Unlike many design and architecture firms, I didn't feel like I would immediately see something they did and know it was them. From single family homes to mid-rise and townhomes I've generally been impressed.

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Liquid Design has done some great work. It is a shame, because they were on the verge of becoming a well known architecture group, but yes, they have had to lay off pretty much the entire company apparently. Again, from some friends I have in architecture I hear they really went all in on Pursuit Group and are getting burned on it. Pursuit is apparently unable to pay the money they owe them. I guess they can all join the ranks with Verna and Associates and his architects on The Park.

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Liquid Design has done some great work. It is a shame, because they were on the verge of becoming a well known architecture group, but yes, they have had to lay off pretty much the entire company apparently. Again, from some friends I have in architecture I hear they really went all in on Pursuit Group and are getting burned on it. Pursuit is apparently unable to pay the money they owe them. I guess they can all join the ranks with Verna and Associates and his architects on The Park.

if you dont know what your talking about, stop slandering a good company... everyone is struggling at this point and it has been a rocky year, but the pursuit group is far from verna

and to clarify liquid had significant work beyond the pursuit group

Edited by BUILDIT
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if you dont know what your talking about, stop slandering a good company... everyone is struggling at this point and it has been a rocky year, but the pursuit group is far from verna

and to clarify liquid had significant work beyond the pursuit group

WOW! I think we just found an employee of Pursuit Group, huh? But maybe I do know...

Fair enough though, I don't work for any of these companies. But I have heard from a number of people, as have others on this post, that Liquid Design is reeling because of their association with this company. And to clarify, I am positive that they did not have significant work beyond Pursuit Group. But ok, lets give them all the benifit of the doubt and say it is the economic times. I am willing to leave it at that.

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(Thanks for ending nicely).

Guess what, we are all Charlotte people and while some of us are more involved than others, none of us is immune to this clusterfudge economy. Let's just accept that there are probably some significant stress on the other side.

Frankly, putting things that I heard from someone at Pursuit together with the other posts here, it sounds like Pursuit is having trouble with its bank just like millions of other businesses. They made their presales, but the banks are still clamping up, so that lack of cash trickles downhill.

Let's just be grateful that some people at the top (Leon) are spending large sums on winter assistance of people at the bottom where nothing is trickling down right now.

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The banks are not shutting down with people and businesses that are credit worthy and who are not getting into marginal deals. In addition, the smaller banks and credit unions, which have not participated in the shady unethical dealings of the large banks, are continuing to do business as usual. If you go into one of these places and meet their requirements for a loan, you will get said loan.

Now on the subject of the Encore. I would guess that not many financial institutions would deem that to be a credit worthy enterprise since it this is a project that makes no sense for Charlotte. It is a demonstration of excessive wealth in a place where such demonstrations are now subject to derision and criticism. It's become the Hummer of housing and I suspect that is the real reason it won't be built.

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Sorry if I offended anyone. I wasn't really interested in getting into a debate on whether one company is better than any other. I was really just remarking that I am sad that it looks like Pursuit is not going to be able to make it happen. And that further more, such a great Architecture group like Liquid Design is faltering as well.

I agree with you monsoon, it is an extravagance in todays economy. I like your analogy of it being the Hummer of condos (I can't stand seeing hummers on the road). But, it is an ingenious solution that Donnely came up with to an impossible site, that was going to save the Theatre. Think of the buyers and investors as benefactors to the old Carolina Theatre.

Unfortunately though, it just doesn't seem like it is going to be able to happen. From the banks perspective, I guess it is a pretty "hairbrained" scheme, although I am positive it would have worked.

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In my view, it is the garages on every plastic house for a 80 mile radius that is the extravagance and the wasteful show of wealth. A project in the heart of the city that efficiently adds housing on a tiny spot by using freight elevators and partners with the city to reuse an 80 year old structure is far from wasteful. The energy to move the cars up and down is far lower than the energy to drive that car from the edge of the county, or even to drive the car around and around in a deck for typical condos. Now, if we are simply overbuilt in luxury housing, then fine, but the Encore concept is not a waste when contrasted with the alternatives that people in that wealth category (which still exist, even in this city) have.

I'm not arguing that it even should be built right now, but it is far more worthy of being built than any of the other developments build in the past few years for wealthier people.

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In my view, it is the garages on every plastic house for a 80 mile radius that is the extravagance and the wasteful show of wealth. ..
Really? What percentage of the population of Charlotte do you think can afford to live in the The Encore? When even millionares can't be sold on the idea, then I would conclude it to be an inefficient project. BTW, downtown Charlotte is not the center of an 80 mile radius of this area. You just swept up Winston-Salem, Hickory, parts of the Columbia metro, and numerous other cities and towns that get by quite nicely without their people having to travel into downtown Charlotte. My guess if that if you asked them what they thought of a highrise that was built for automobiles to ride up to the top of the building, they would call it a stupid and wasteful idea.
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If these 'shouldn't' be built because of their extravagence I suppose the obnoxious lake dwellings that our fouling up our shorelines should be eliminated as well. Soon to follow, the stupid golf course houses.

I think the garages in the sky are pretty cheezy, but a way to figure out a parking issue plus save an Historic theatre. I love the design of this building though.

I'll stay out of what 'should' or 'shouldn't' be built and let the buying market decide that. If it were up to any of us as individuals we'd all have a different opinion about what should or shouldn't be built and where.

If Pursuit Group is on the verge of failure (and they certainly might be -- I have no idea) they are doing a good job of hiding it considering their recent purchase of the church and facility at the corner of Brevard near the arena, the opening of Chima, and the completion of units at The Trust.

Edited by Charlotte_native
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the problem with getting a loan is that banks dont want to give small loans that are less profitable to development companies like the pursuit group when they can instead give a larger loan to someone else. As lending gets tighter, less banks are willing to fund a smaller project like encore. For clarification, I am not a pursuit group employee.

Also for clarification, liquid was set to be designing several other white water centers around the country. I can see why they have stalled to, but it is unfair to lay the blame on the pursuit group solely.

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If Pursuit Group is on the verge of failure (and they certainly might be -- I have no idea) they are doing a good job of hiding it considering their recent purchase of the church and facility at the corner of Brevard near the arena, the opening of Chima, and the completion of units at The Trust.

The Grace AME Zion was purchased by Pursuit group over a year ago and the building next to it soon after that. And Pursuit does not own Chima, Chima owns Chima. Pursuit is leasing the space to them.

But you are correct, like any company, they would want to conceal any woes to the public, as they should. I don't know anything about them being on the verge of failure, I really hope not because they are the dynamic developement group that this city needs (not afraid to step out on a limb). All I know (see original post) is that I have heard they are having trouble paying bills, which is a bad sign for the Encore at least.

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The Grace AME Zion was purchased by Pursuit group over a year ago and the building next to it soon after that. And Pursuit does not own Chima, Chima owns Chima. Pursuit is leasing the space to them.

But you are correct, like any company, they would want to conceal any woes to the public, as they should. I don't know anything about them being on the verge of failure, I really hope not because they are the dynamic developement group that this city needs (not afraid to step out on a limb). All I know (see original post) is that I have heard they are having trouble paying bills, which is a bad sign for the Encore at least.

Not to beleaguer the point, and I do agree with you, but in the current conditions I don't see this as any more of an indication of Pursuit than anyone else. Every builder I know and/or work with from single family homes to projects like this is having trouble with their construction lines.

And I realize Chima is Chima, but they had to build out that space as well as complete the rest of the building (in process but getting close). I also realize when they acquired the other properties, but they've been working on them as well. My point was twofold, 1) they are moving forward on other projects though it is at what we can dub a '2008 pace' based on the banking woes, the economy, etc, and 2) so far they've not stopped or dropped anything. I would expect any company to show a strong face to remain in business, but if you are completely broke try all you may, what you are working on will stop.

Again, I have no inside info other than what we can all see. Slow sales at Encore don't surprise me at all either, slow sales is the mantra for this year!

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Really? What percentage of the population of Charlotte do you think can afford to live in the The Encore? When even millionares can't be sold on the idea, then I would conclude it to be an inefficient project. BTW, downtown Charlotte is not the center of an 80 mile radius of this area. You just swept up Winston-Salem, Hickory, parts of the Columbia metro, and numerous other cities and towns that get by quite nicely without their people having to travel into downtown Charlotte. My guess if that if you asked them what they thought of a highrise that was built for automobiles to ride up to the top of the building, they would call it a stupid and wasteful idea.

Why don't you let buyers be the judge of that. Supply and Demand. I'd be quite certain that there is a small pool of buyers that can actually afford upwards of 1 million dollar to 5 million dollar homes, at least in Charlotte, however, there are some out there, and this structure really only needed 20 of them to be sold out completely.

Edited by Andyc545
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