Belk Place: Carolina Theater and Hotel Intercontinental

[TotalLamer]

I'd rather see ARK get it.  From the sounds of it, FftC isn't going to do much more than slap some drywall up in the theater, paint it and call it a day, whereas ARK would do a lot more justice to the property from a historic point of view.

 

Plus, Charlotte could really use a venue like Richmond's The National or Atlanta's Tabernacle.

[HopHead]

^Yea, but Charlotte already has the Fillmore at the NC Music Factory. It's serves the purpose of those other two venues you mentioned. And it serves it quite well actually, especially from a concert standpoint. 

Edited December 5, 2012 by wend28

[Norm2]

That is a nice, classic building, and at 15 stories, and no parking deck, is probably the most practical building design proposed for this spot.  I like the idea that their connections in the civic space could bring the Charlotte Chamber over as well as land some other tenants, and probably also fill any remaining space with some of the charitable wings of BofA, or other local corporations.

 

I am most happy to (seemingly) see no parking.  It is like we are a real city and can safely assume people can park elsewhere and walk or take transit.  I hope that is correct.  I suspect to satisfy some of the requirements they may have to contract with Hearst or another nearby deck.

 

That is an amazing looking building and seems to match the architecture of the building next door. I do like how they eliminate the Hearst tower behind it though to give it some sky lol.

[15895]

I love the arches over the sidewalk on that office tower. The tower looks like it belongs in New York. I love it!

I wonder if it'll even make a single dent in our skyline. It sure will from the street level though

[southslider]

ARK would at least buy the site for more than a dollar.

[nonillogical]

Plus, Charlotte could really use a venue like Richmond's The National or Atlanta's Tabernacle.

But it won't be that. There is no room for a backstage anymore, and it won't be cut out for a music or large performance venue, a category that we have well covered. 

[atlrvr]

ARK would at least buy the site for more than a dollar.

The same could be said for Community Builder's as the highest bid for the NoDa Mills.  The $500k difference is negligible is the city is concerned ARK would come back and say they need X, Y and Z from the city or they can't complete the renovation.

 

Again, I'd love the city to suggest Ark and FftC get together and see if there is a complimentary vision where ARK can attempt to renovate the space but the risk is transfered away from the city.

[TotalLamer]

^Yea, but Charlotte already has the Fillmore at the NC Music Factory. It's serves the purpose of those other two venues you mentioned. And it serves it quite well actually, especially from a concert standpoint. 

Fillmore is a very different kind of venue from places like The National, The Tabernacle, etc.

[dubone]

But it won't be that. There is no room for a backstage anymore, and it won't be cut out for a music or large performance venue, a category that we have well covered. 

 

But Visulite has no backstage really does it?  It seems they could solve this or maybe work with Hearst tower to bump out some into that odd alleyway  between Hearst parking deck entrance and Carolina Theater.  Lectures don't need the backstage, bands don't need much of a backstage as long as there is somewhere to go to get out of the crowd to wait for encore cheers.  But one thing is clear without the backstage, this theater will not be used for theatrical performances unless they are adaptable to that lack of space for sets. 

 

Regardless, I most prefer if there were some way to partner for ARK and FftC (as many have mentioned).  Clearly working together could hopefully provide each with enough opportunity to split the use of the theater for the civic and entertainment uses that would be optimal.  However, in places like Neighborhood Theater, Visulite, etc., (and ARK originally did to CT during CityFair), is that the seating should come out, whereas FftC wants to pursue more academic and civic uses of the theater which would actually require typical theater seating.   

 

Once the effort/cost has been put in to renovate it, I believe that the uses will magically come, as it is much more interesting to perform in a historic stage where countless historic figures have played over a theater built more recently with a corporate feeling.    So if there is a way for them to share a vision and share the initial cost, with the city off the hook for overages, or both combining their budgets to end up with TWICE the level of restoration/renovation and end up with more of a 100% utilitization of the theater versus the idle time that would be the case if it were only used for night time entertainment or only used for civic uses and lectures. 

[orulz]

That office tower looks kind of nice but the devil is in the details (which colored pencil sketches are notoriously short on.)

 

Its quality will depend on the quality of the materials and level of detailing. Of course expecting something that looks straight out of the 1920s is impossible. However, if the materials are natural stone for the base and brick for the tower, it will probably look quite nice. Precast concrete for the base would look OK too. If it has even a square inch of dryvit/EIFS, please take those plans and BURN THEM.

[krazeeboi]

I like the classic, historic look of the proposed tower. I hope someone like David Schwarz is designing it; he gets these kinds of things right. Here's an example of his work: the Carnegie Building in Ft. Worth, constructed in 2008:

 

[Urbanity]

^Oh.  Why I like the base I don't love it and frankly the rest of the building is not the least bit something intriguing

 

That office tower looks kind of nice but the devil is in the details (which colored pencil sketches are notoriously short on.)

 

Its quality will depend on the quality of the materials and level of detailing. Of course expecting something that looks straight out of the 1920s is impossible. However, if the materials are natural stone for the base and brick for the tower, it will probably look quite nice. Precast concrete for the base would look OK too. If it has even a square inch of dryvit/EIFS, please take those plans and BURN THEM.

 

I agree with Orulz comment.  

 

I'm kind of scratching my head to be frank of all the excitement of the FFTC's proposal.   They themselves say that they wouldn't start on the construction for a few years and I would think this board should know best after the last few years that many sketched proposals rarely look the same several years out.

[49er]

Maybe it has been mentioned and I missed it but I really like how they are incorporating the saved facade from the Carolina Theater. It will add a lot of character and dimension much the same as the Radcliffe flower shop in the condo building on south tryon. Thinking about it more, that building is probably the best local example as it incorporates an older structure with a brick faced new building around it. It seems entirely possible to do a classical style tower 15 stories or less and actually use brick and precast stone. 

 

Saving just the facade is similar to what was done with Fat City but I would hope is blended more seamlessly at this site.

[kermit]

Council will vote tonight on the theatre sale.

 

Its sounds like Lazes has been doing some lobbying to change the preference of the comittee.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2012/12/carolina-theatre-sale-foundation.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-12-17&page=all

[tozmervo]

The Council voted 6-5 to sell the property to the Foundation. 

[michaelef]

While I like the designs of the site by the foundation. The Observer reports it may take three to five years before construction BEGINS! 

[ah59396]

^Agreed. What a joke. Three to five years for a non profit is likey longer and vague at best.. We could have seen this thing moving by late next year with ARK and had an extra $499,999 in the city coffers. I love the designs from the foundation, but that's it. Another botch job from our hapless city council.

The fact that we could be discussing this relic in 2018 is quite depressing.

[Missmylab4]

This city council sucks. They all need to be replaced.

[Urbanity]

I already said I thought it was a mistake to get excited about the Foundation's proposal (drawing of building) as what is in a pretty sketch drawing that is intended to be built at some time in the next 3-5 years is rarely what the final product looks like (regardless of the property/backer).

 

I also think the city council has made a grave mistake in not accepting the ARK proposal which would have put money in the city coffers (at a time when the city council is trying to find ways to pay for things), added more tax revenue, seen the development happen quicker, and would have included space for non-profits (as ARK also made that part of the proposal).

All that said - the decision has been made and there is nothing to do about it.  I do hope though that the FFTC was required to provide some guarantees of what space they will offer to non-profits besides themselves and that it really does become a hub of non-profits.  If that really does happen then I like the idea of the increased diversity of office tenants that will bring to North Tryon.  If it mainly becomes an extension of FFTC offices then the FFTC and the city will have some explaining to do of why the city gave away some of the city's most expensive area real estate to an org that pays no taxes.

[rjp212]

So part of the agreement for purchase of the site to Foundation of the Carolinas includes the provision:

 

"Under the terms of the sale, the foundation will be given more than 10 years to finish the theater’s renovations. Renovations must start by Dec. 31, 2018, and be “substantially complete” by Dec. 31, 2023."

 

If they are just going to sit on the property then I hope they at least maintain the pocket park.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/going_green/2013/04/Sale-Carolina-Theatre-Foundation.html

[HopHead]

Since the developers have TEN YEARS to re-develop the theater, I fully expect them to sit on it until the end of 2018. Well, at least we have the pocket park... Sigh.

[ah59396]

Yes!  I'm SO glad that Foundation of the Carolina's got this site for free and we will see "substantial completion" no later than TEN YEARS from now.  Much better than the evil Ark group who would have actually paid for the site and done something with it.  WHO KNOWS where the Foundation will be financially 10 years from now.  If the economic climate is anything like today, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this fall apart and be moved back into the cities hands.  That is of course, after another 10 years of $0 in tax revenue and an empty plot of prime real estate.  

 

Of course, the real kick in the crotch will be if our economy does really turn over the next 3-4 years and that SUPER desirable site raises in value.  Good thing we made a $1 off of it.  /sarcasm

[Guest]

I actually think that the office building will be developed in the next 2-5 years. The Foundation recently became a 1 billion dollar company. They need more space. 

Since the developers have TEN YEARS to re-develop the theater, I fully expect them to sit on it until the end of 2018. Well, at least we have the pocket park... Sigh.

[dubone]

Yeah, the Foundation for the Carolinas has pretty powerful friends, it seems.  

 

It was good we had to choose between two good options, but I think it was very reasonable to go with the Foundation and include some deadlines that were medium term, so that it wouldn't be punative but still give a sense of imminence for them to stay vigilant with planning. 

 

The Foundation won goodwill in a number of ways.  They came up with the idea and built the pocket in park in the first place, so of course they will retain that during the waiting period.  They showed a very classic and appealing rendering of the tower that would go on the land next to their current space.  Lastly, by being offered for charitable civic purposes, it allows the city to contribute to that with a low sales price, since the city benefits from the civic activities of those organizations.

[Urbanity]

I do wish they would have went with ARK instead both for speed of the project and money.