Belk Place: Carolina Theater and Hotel Intercontinental

[Guest]

1 hour ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

This thread began over 11 years ago, with the then-anticipated luxury condo plus a Jetsons type scheme of an elevator for the condo-owners' cars.  Like that was ever going to happen.

This is the most humbling post in this thread. Maybe on this site. Sometimes reminders/perspective is incredibly important.

[dubone]

Agreed this plan is far better funded and didn't need to rely on waiting for luxury condo sales, which granted the Enclave was very late to that game and didn't get to have the magic instant sold out status that 210 Trade did and a few others. 

Love the old optimism we had during the bubble years.   But to be fair somewhat, Jetsons had flying cars, so a simple car elevator like we have now at Carvana and many other places was not that far-fetched as a technology, just expensive, which made sense for a luxury condo on prime real estate.   That said, the people that could see the bubble at the time had the level of cuckoo that Y2K preppers had a decade before that and Infowars people had decade later.  It was hard to take their advice reasonably well.   But I wish I had taken A2's advice to quit banking, buy gold, sell all real estate and stock and move away.  It was not credible then, but was right advice.  

 

Agreed the current project iteration is far more plausible but still raises questions of whether it will be all it is promised to be.  Most projects aspire more during conception than are actually built when the realities hit.   I do worry about the Theater upfit for sure, especially when I see no updates on their website.   I think they they are resolving parking spaces by contracting at nearby decks, probably with a valet system.  Hotels are ideal for this tiny parcel with difficult parking because parking demands are lower at hotels.   

Service Elevator does seem to be there accessed from a 6th street side door, with 3 public elevators accessed from the lobby.

https://aca3.accela.com/charlotte/urlrouting.ashx?type=1000&agencyCode=CHARLOTTE&capID1=17LDU&capID2=00000&capID3=00080&Module=LandDevelopment

 

 

 

[CLT>]

16 hours ago, dubone said:

 

Agreed the current project iteration is far more plausible but still raises questions of whether it will be all it is promised to be.  Most projects aspire more during conception than are actually built when the realities hit.   I do worry about the Theater upfit for sure, especially when I see no updates on their website.   

2

They have spent quite a bit of time on the theatre interiors. They have preserved and will restore some of the existing features of the theatre (some of which were stored elsewhere) but will add some new interesting things in the seating areas that don't really exist in Charlotte. Even the fabric and curtains are researched to be either the same as was in the theatre during its heyday or have a historical nod to that time. Rightly, they plan on people seeing it for the first time when it's complete, renderings won't quite do it justice. But keep in mind there is no 'back of house' due to CityFair and the Hearst Tower so don't expect big theatrical productions, but more films, talks, and things that don't require a deep stage.

The big question from what I've seen is how well the entry lobby to the theatre will come together. All the renderings and drawings I have seen are very light on structure and detail...

 

[JacksonH]

50 minutes ago, CLT> said:

But keep in mind there is no 'back of house' due to CityFair and the Hearst Tower so don't expect big theatrical productions, but more films, talks, and things that don't require a deep stage.

But were there ever big theatrical productions there?  I thought this only ever served as a movie theater.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

But were there ever big theatrical productions there?  I thought this only ever served as a movie theater.

Speaking that it was built way before movie theatres... 

I am pretty sure it used to have a large back of house, but was removed for the construction of Hearst Tower.

[JacksonH]

7 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Speaking that it was built way before movie theatres... 

I am pretty sure it used to have a large back of house, but was removed for the construction of Hearst Tower.

I thought it was built in 1927?  That's a time when movie theaters -- or what they then called "movie palaces" -- were being built in huge numbers all over the country.  So I was assuming it's primary purpose was to show movies.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JacksonH said:

I thought it was built in 1927?  That's a time when movie theaters -- or what they then called "movie palaces" -- were being built in huge numbers all over the country.  So I was assuming it's primary purpose was to show movies.

You are right i got my dates mixed up. 

It wasn't just a movie theatre though. It showed actual acts, concert, etc.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

You are right i got my dates mixed up. 

It wasn't just a movie theatre though. It showed actual acts, concert, etc.

And still should be able to. Not going to be the place that plays or operas probably will be, however.

[JacksonH]

8 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

You are right i got my dates mixed up. 

It wasn't just a movie theatre though. It showed actual acts, concert, etc.

Thanks.  I was just reading the history from the Wikipedia page.  It says this:  "Originally, movies ran for three days, and vaudeville performers were on stage Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays."  You may know better than I, but for vaudeville performers they probably needed little more than enough space for dressing rooms, not necessarily the amount of room required to maintain sets and such needed for big theatrical productions.  But you said "large back of house," so I don't know.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carolina_Theatre

[Guest]

Just now, JacksonH said:

Thanks.  I was just reading the history from the Wikipedia page.  It says this:  "Originally, movies ran for three days, and vaudeville performers were on stage Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays."  You may know better than I, but for vaudeville performers they probably needed little more than enough space for dressing rooms, not necessarily the amount of room required to maintain sets and such needed for big theatrical productions.  But you said "large back of house," so I don't know.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carolina_Theatre

That had been my impression that there was once a back of house, but it was removed either because of a fire, or hearst, its unclear, I'll see if I can find proof to what I'm remembering.

[JacksonH]

6 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

That had been my impression that there was once a back of house, but it was removed either because of a fire, or hearst, its unclear, I'll see if I can find proof to what I'm remembering.

Probably true.  This building has suffered a lot of abuse.  I have read that the lobby was demolished when Cityfair was built.  So if it lost its front side, it's possible it lost its backside, too.

Edited January 29, 2019 by JacksonH

[KJHburg]

and yes they did have concerts.  Remember my mom and my aunts had to walk out on ELVIS.  And this was in the early 1950s he had a concert there (next time he came to town he played at the Charlotte Coliseum 1 aka Bojangles Arena.)   They had to walk out with front row seats because the concert started later than what was advertised and my aunt had to get to work as a cracker packer with Lance at 1300 South Blvd and she was driving! 

[videtur quam contuor]

Saw the Ali-Floyd Patterson fight there. Prior to pay-per-view at home this was a way to reach the national market using ticket sales. Also at another time a movie that I am unable to mention.

[Matthew.Brendan]

For us dirty transplants, can anyone provide some insight on what CityFair was?

Best I found was this article from 1998 but it just left me with more questions. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/1998/07/13/story1.html

[atlrvr]

Site of Uptown's first and last Wendy's.....6 registers!

[TheOneRJ]

37 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

For us dirty transplants, can anyone provide some insight on what CityFair was?

Best I found was this article from 1998 but it just left me with more questions. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/1998/07/13/story1.html

Basically the original Founder’s Hall. CityFair was a small shopping mall that was demolished for the Hearst Tower. The mall failed for many of the same reasons why FH isn’t successful - there was no street level retail and no major tenants. 

[KJHburg]

CityFlop I mean CityFair was a tax payer subsidized 3 story marketplace with parking garage that was supposed to add excitement to uptown retail and help Belks and Iveys department stores uptown at the time.  It was developed by Rouse Co. who did Baltimore's Harborplace among other projects.  They had a good food court that was moderately successful and and 2 more levels of retail shops.  Those other 2 levels of shops never did much business at all.  My MBA classes were in space on the top floor of Cityfair as UNC Charlotte's first uptown outpost.  Cityfair did not last but 5-7 years as Belks soon closed to make way for Bank of America Corp Center and Iveys shut down a few years later.  Then Bank of America or at the time Nationsbank realized they helped encourage this boondoggle that they then helped to get rid of it by building the then Bank owned Hearst Plaza with the bank being the major tenants and Hearst Publishing a secondary tenant.   If my memory is incorrect please correct me but that is what I remember. 

as for that Wendys boy could uptown use that Wendys now (and of course another McDonalds) 

Edited January 30, 2019 by KJHburg

[videtur quam contuor]

What he said☝ and it tried to be everything with tax money; retail, entertainment, parking, office. They threw everything on the wall and the wall collapsed. 80's thinking. PacMan, cassette tapes New Kids on the Block, CityFair.

[Spartan]

Anyone have any pics of CityFair?

[Guest]

Anyone have any pics of CityFair?

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[Spartan]

@ricky_davis_fan_21 thanks! I'm trying to get my bearings. In that bottom pic, where is Tryon St?

[KJHburg]

16 minutes ago, Spartan said:

@ricky_davis_fan_21 thanks! I'm trying to get my bearings. In that bottom pic, where is Tryon St?

Not on Tryon at all on College between 5th and 6th street back side of Hearst now.  

Background story on CityFlop I mean Cityfair and the Hearst tower. Keith Corp. bought it for pennies on the dollar.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/1998/07/13/story1.html

Edited January 30, 2019 by KJHburg

[Guest]

[mention=17104]ricky_davis_fan_21[/mention] thanks! I'm trying to get my bearings. In that bottom pic, where is Tryon St?

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I’m actually tearing up over here. I LOVED Cityfair.


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[Spartan]

ohh ok. I tried to figure out what building that was, but I was turned around.

[Norm2]

I remember seeing City Fair in the news being imploded. That was the first I had ever heard of it.