Belk Place: Carolina Theater and Hotel Intercontinental

[brokenraven]

It's official--this is my favorite downtown condo project yet.

[Andyc545]

That is one heck of an animation. I as well am anticipating this condo to be top.

[cltheel.sdl]

It's official--this is my favorite downtown condo project yet.

I have to agree. I may like One Charlotte slightly better in terms of the architecture, but the car elevator is just sweet and this project relates really well to the street. I also don't want to leave out the fact that one of Charlotte's most historical theaters will be renovated/rebuilt due to this project. I'm very excited!

[Andyc545]

Looks like they are setting up the sales center, and funny enough it's like 2 or 3 retail spaces away from the 300 S. Tryon Sales Center. It's not completed inside yet, but they started working on it.

[atlrvr]

They are also hosting a New Years Eve party at the Carolina Theatre called Cirque du Theatre.

[Charlotteman]

So Encore is beyond the proposal status, and is actually a project under serious development? I didn't realize it was "a definite" yet.

This is really exciting on many levels. The phenomenal location, the striking architectural style, the restoration of the Carolina Theatre, 100+ new people living Uptown and of course the high-tech parking.....truly exciting.

Another reason to be thrilled with Encore is that it will bring Uptown a second ultra-modern high rise. Trademark won't be alone for long.

[atlrvr]

A short blurb in today's Observer.

Jim Donnelly tells me he has signed two NASCAR drivers to contracts for condos in his 20-story Encore development going up attached to the old place. (Let's hope they slow down pulling into the nifty car elevator that brings your ride to your door.)

So, umm, that's 2 down I feel pretty confident in this meeting its pre-construction sales goals. I just hope they have a good handle on the construction costs. I must say, I think this is the condo tower I'm most excited about, as it is truly innovative.

[Norm2]

I was at the Walmart on Saridis Rd and I met this guy named John there, who so happens to have spreaheaded the organizatio that ha sbeen fighting for the Carolina Theater renovation. he said some pretty interesting things. He did say though that he does not want rock concerts to be peformed inside of the theater because it is bad for the plaster in there. He feels that the developer doesnt care about though. I don't know if the loud noise is bad for the plaster or not. He did feel though that even though the developer is being nice and trying to help renovate the theater, that the developer truly doesnt want to listen to the preservationists.

[HopHead]

I was at the Walmart on Saridis Rd and I met this guy named John there, who so happens to have spreaheaded the organizatio that ha sbeen fighting for the Carolina Theater renovation. he said some pretty interesting things. He did say though that he does not want rock concerts to be peformed inside of the theater because it is bad for the plaster in there. He feels that the developer doesnt care about though. I don't know if the loud noise is bad for the plaster or not. He did feel though that even though the developer is being nice and trying to help renovate the theater, that the developer truly doesnt want to listen to the preservationists.

I've never heard of different types of music being bad for the interior of a venue. How can an electric guitar from a rock band be any worse than a booming bass from a hip hop artist? Anyone familiar with this?

[BUILDIT]

I've never heard of different types of music being bad for the interior of a venue. How can an electric guitar from a rock band be any worse than a booming bass from a hip hop artist? Anyone familiar with this?

I dont understand what that has to do with anything... no ones talking about hip hop music... If the theater is being restored, the preservationists should be happy someone else is footing the bill, not complaining that they are playing ELECTRIC GUITAR in a music and theater venue, thats a joke

[Charlotte_native]

I was at the Walmart on Saridis Rd and I met this guy named John there, who so happens to have spreaheaded the organizatio that ha sbeen fighting for the Carolina Theater renovation. he said some pretty interesting things. He did say though that he does not want rock concerts to be peformed inside of the theater because it is bad for the plaster in there. He feels that the developer doesnt care about though. I don't know if the loud noise is bad for the plaster or not. He did feel though that even though the developer is being nice and trying to help renovate the theater, that the developer truly doesnt want to listen to the preservationists.

I've talked to the guy you met. They don't want the theatre used for loud music events in general and at first said it was so the residents wouldn't be disturbed. Now it is because of the plaster. I respect the preservationalist group very much and they have worked hard FOR YEARS to preserve this theatre. Without them it would have been gone long ago.

That being said, I don't agree that the developer doesn't care, I know Jim and I know he does care, but you have to be realistic about what will support this venue -- live music will certainly be part of it. That isn't all they want in there though -- they also plan on live performance, theatre, special events, and all kinds of music including what the preservationalists want. If the developer didn't care, why bother with such a complicated project that combines old restoration and new construciton (it would be far easier to find a piece of raw land, invest, and cash out).

The excuse of the music being bad for the plaster is sort of lame for a couple reasons: 1) they likely won't replace plaster with plaster but with modern materials and much of the plaster that remains will have to be replaced. I doubt much of the existing plaster will be there in the end at all, it is too hard to *repair*, is in horrible shape, and when rewiring and reworking a building most will have to come down anyway. 2) If this is so bad for old theatres why doesn't it seem to affect plenty of others nationwide? The Fox in ATL and many others are from this period and are known for rock and hip hop shows and they aren't having problems with crumbling walls.

Truth is they would like to see the Theatre restored just as it was but to make it viable you can't recreate it as a museum with no functionality or use that fits today. Both sides have different agendas and there is nothing wrong with that -- just is what it is. It has also (both agendas) worked to save this beautiful building.

I'm simply thankful that it is being saved -- period.

I dont understand what that has to do with anything... no ones talking about hip hop music... If the theater is being restored, the preservationists should be happy someone else is footing the bill, not complaining that they are playing ELECTRIC GUITAR in a music and theater venue, thats a joke

I believe the truth is they just don't want the kind of music they don't like. But they are getting over it and are working with the developer.

[dubone]

I went to a CTPS meeting a while back when the development plans were first announced. Some members of that group seem to want it to be filled with vaudeville and black and white movies. While I think it would be very cool to for the theater to show old classic movies, the fact is that they need to have it used for modern events in order for it to be viable into the long term. I'm sure there is enough money to cover plaster repair!

[Norm2]

I agree that the theater needs to be used for modern uses. You are not going to make $ just by playing old movies and letting jazz bands play in the theater.

[rockhilljames]

Yeah, this needs to be our city's version of the Fox. That's the only way to make it viable long-term.

[Charlotte_native]

Yeah, this needs to be our city's version of the Fox. That's the only way to make it viable long-term.

And honestly I think that would be the most exciting use for me and many of us anyway. Downtown doesn't have a great live music venue for rock, pop, and hip hop. We have decent venues and we have a very good venue (Alley Cat) but otherwise mid level bands have to play in the outer neighborhoods and mostly in venues not really designed for stage use (other than Visulite, N'hood Theater, & Amos'). The fact that places like Atlantas Fox are well known to us here in Charlotte attest to their viability outside the city where they are located. I've known people who've travelled to shows at Fox that were also coming here just because they love the venue and used it as an excuse for a road-trip.

Everyone might not like it, but a beautiful, restored, large theater in center city being used for live music shows would be an amazing addition to the nightlife scene.

I also think it would be cool to see Vaudeville shows occationally (OK, maybe just once) but the overall draw would be pretty limited and certainly not sufficient to maintain and support this facility. As for black and white movies, I can't even watch black & white TV! I do think it would be cool to have a run of Sound of Music again since it apparantly ran in the theater for some incredible amount of time and for more people (tickets sold) than Charlotte had in population at the time.

The interesting part of all of this is that the theater was already used for live rock shows in the past -- I've seen plenty of names dropped by folks I know, including family, who saw all kinds of rock, folk, and other live music there -- most notably Elvis back in his heyday. Putting rock in this place would be just as much of a nod to its past as anything else.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[Justadude]

In defense of the preservationists, I doubt that they are worried about your average electric guitar doing damage to the building. I'm sure we've all been to large, effects-driven shows that are loud enough to make your ears squeal for hours afterward. Not to put words in their mouths, but it seems likely that the preservationists are worried more about a Kiss concert than an Eric Clapton acoustic show.

Now, whether these kinds of shows actually pose a threat to the integrity of the building is beyond me to answer. But intuitively I would expect some long-term wear and tear from having huge amp stacks going full-blast in an historic building.

[rockhilljames]

If properly restored it wouldn't be any more vulnerable than any other building. In that sense it wouldn't matter if they hosted Slayer, Wu Tang, or Bella Fleck.

[Andyc545]

The developers are giving away a free Porche with the purchase of a unit. They set up a few Porches outside at the construction site. Guess they are still trying to snag the rest of the buyers...

[dubone]

They are just trying to incent people not to use realtors when buying their multimillion dollar condo. If you don't want a Porsche, you can opt for 3 season passes to the Panthers, to the arts, or have J&W in-house chef cook for you for 3 years.

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...tml?t=printable

All in all, a good reason to help save them some fees.

[turbocraig]

Uh lessee Pat, I'll take the 911 GT2 for $120,000 and... the Amana Radarange for $1250, the vintage popcorn maker for $400.. and... the rest on a gift certificate.

[atlrvr]

Hmmm...in another marketing move, I heard that Encore is now being marketed by Helen Adams Realty instead of "in-house". Anyone know the reason for the switch? Was the plan all along to sell x% in-house to keep commissions down, and then let Helen Adams sell it out, or are they having trouble finding buyers? I know H.A. did The Trust for the developer, so there is obviously some history. I'm just hoping that this project launches, as I find it to be the most architectually interesting condo building proposed downtown.

[Charlotte_native]

Hmmm...in another marketing move, I heard that Encore is now being marketed by Helen Adams Realty instead of "in-house". Anyone know the reason for the switch? Was the plan all along to sell x% in-house to keep commissions down, and then let Helen Adams sell it out, or are they having trouble finding buyers? I know H.A. did The Trust for the developer, so there is obviously some history. I'm just hoping that this project launches, as I find it to be the most architectually interesting condo building proposed downtown.

I wouldn't think this change was planned. There have been a handful developers in town who have tried doing their own sales as well and, with one exception I know of, they've all gone back to hiring a professional sales staff and local company. The Drakeford Company, Boulevard Company, Blue Sky, now Pursuit, have tried personal in-house sales and dropped the idea. Of the couple that I know personally, they dropped it because they really didn't save any money after a few things to consider: if you are going to hire good sales staff, you'll need to pay them at least similar to what they'd get working for commissions elsewhere, you'll have to manage them thereby taking up your precious time you could be using to be a developer -- not a sales manager, and most of these teams like HA know what they are doing. You get what you pay for. The one quote a friend who owns one of the companies above told me as to why they dropped the in house sales: 'I realized that I had become a realtor and no longer had time to be a developer...' <-- and he was just managing two staffers, not doing the sales himself.

Working to sell these kinds of projects, and a couple of my friends do, is as hard as any job you'll find. It takes tons of hours, you generally sit in a boring sales center, they DON'T pay you the typical 3 - 6% commissions everyone would suspect, and you get paid 1 - 2 YEARS after you've started on the project, working on it and maintaining files all the while. Even Novare hired Coldwell Banker to do their sales though you don't really see their name much of anywhere in advertising, publicity, or at the sales center.

I know agents that sell these type of projects and agents that just do regular brokerage, you actually do better doing it the normal old fashion way one buyer or seller at a time. SO...developers tend to realize that in-house sales isn't worth what little savings there might be with commissions.

I think in this case they thought these sales would be easier than they were. Things might have been different, as well, if things were like they were a couple years ago when you could count on a building selling out in a few days to a few weeks. Times are much tougher now than they were.

The only local company that has done in-house sales with success and still does so, is Blvd Centro but they have a full staff that does nothing but sales.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[ontap]

Hmmm...in another marketing move, I heard that Encore is now being marketed by Helen Adams Realty instead of "in-house". Anyone know the reason for the switch? Was the plan all along to sell x% in-house to keep commissions down, and then let Helen Adams sell it out, or are they having trouble finding buyers? I know H.A. did The Trust for the developer, so there is obviously some history. I'm just hoping that this project launches, as I find it to be the most architectually interesting condo building proposed downtown.

That's interesting that Helen Adams would take over marketing the units. Encore was being marketed by BSI which is Allen Tate's builders services unit. They severed their relationship a couple of weeks ago when Encore advertised in the Business Journal that "they would give you a Porsche if you bought without using an agent". I think most developers realize that in Charlotte the majority of sales are driven by realtors. I don't know why Encore would want to alienate themselves from the real estate community. It's odd that Helen Adams Realty would want to get involved when the "free porsches" are still sitting in front of the Carolina Theater. I guess everyone has their own motivation.

[UrbanFuture]

That's interesting that Helen Adams would take over marketing the units. Encore was being marketed by BSI which is Allen Tate's builders services unit. They severed their relationship a couple of weeks ago when Encore advertised in the Business Journal that "they would give you a Porsche if you bought without using an agent". I think most developers realize that in Charlotte the majority of sales are driven by realtors. I don't know why Encore would want to alienate themselves from the real estate community. It's odd that Helen Adams Realty would want to get involved when the "free porsches" are still sitting in front of the Carolina Theater. I guess everyone has their own motivation.

I know that a couple of Helen Adams top sales agents had to sign non-competes with Encore because they had signed on with 300 S. Tryon. With that project out of the way, I'm sure that Encore scooped up the same agents from Helen Adams that did so well for them at the Trust as they became available again.

[Charlotte_native]

That's interesting that Helen Adams would take over marketing the units. Encore was being marketed by BSI which is Allen Tate's builders services unit. They severed their relationship a couple of weeks ago when Encore advertised in the Business Journal that "they would give you a Porsche if you bought without using an agent". I think most developers realize that in Charlotte the majority of sales are driven by realtors. I don't know why Encore would want to alienate themselves from the real estate community. It's odd that Helen Adams Realty would want to get involved when the "free porsches" are still sitting in front of the Carolina Theater. I guess everyone has their own motivation.

That could be, in part, because BSI built their operations on selling suburban homes in new neighborhoods and has done exceptionally well with that. You don't market or sell those the same as this kind of project.

They were far out of their league, by most accounts, with 210 Trade because they had no experience selling condo towers in town and were overwhelmed, under staffed, and baffled when they let loose sales on that project. They had to turn people away on opening day and revamp the sales process for a week. It is very different sitting in a model home where a couple folks stop by occationally to buy a home as opposed to a deal like 210 where people camped out and lined up for hours to be the first in and reserve units all day long. Nothing against BSI, but this isn't their niche.

Helen Adams, on the other hand, has immense experience with just this kind of project. And no, I have no ties whatsoever to either group --just an observer.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Charlotte_native