Belk Place: Carolina Theater and Hotel Intercontinental

[j-man]

12 hours ago, The Real Clayton said:

You know Museum Tower attached to Duke Energy Center commenced construction 6 years after the rest of the complex was completed right ? I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand. The roof doesn't need to be "deconstructed" thats not how this works. Adding a floor onto your house is difficult sure, but adding 30 floors onto a building which was engineered for 30 more floors isn't hard. Vantage's parking deck is ready for its hotel to start, when its ready, no "deconstruction" is happening. You prepare, and start when ready.  I can't say this enough, the success of the theatre is partially leveraged on the air rights sale. Something will be built here, and the only thing that could be built at these specs is hotel, and with the complexity and size of this site, it'll be a tall hotel. 

Everything you said....I am well aware and I know of.  I was being specific to this project. I just don’t see them doing that for this mainly because it already has a disadvantage of not having attached parking so I don’t see this as being a sought after hotel in my honest opinion. I love the idea of less cars but I can easily see this one being scrapped opposed to something like the hotel panned next to the Eliot apartments which already has parking  available in the deck that’s being shared with the residents. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by j-man

[DMann]

I think the parking will be integrated into the Truist garage

[j-man]

6 hours ago, DMann said:

I think the parking will be integrated into the Truist garage

I was told that it has absolutely no parking. For less car traffic and more of a foot traffic experience. I’ve only heard this and that’s why I made the statement initially. 

[CLT2014]

7 hours ago, j-man said:

Everything you said....I am well aware and I know of.  I was being specific to this project. I just don’t see them doing that for this mainly because it already has a disadvantage of not having attached parking so I don’t see this as being a sought after hotel in my honest opinion. I love the idea of less cars but I can easily see this one being scrapped opposed to something like the hotel panned next to the Eliot apartments which already has parking  available in the deck that’s being shared with the residents. 

At a high end hotel, this is solved by offering valet parking only where the cars are located off site. People don't expect to self park necessarily at a downtown hotel that is 4 or 5 stars. Examples include the Kimpton Tryon Park where the only option is to valet park for $35 a night. The hotel is very popular and has a 4.5 / 5 on TripAdvisor.

Edited February 12, 2021 by CLT2014

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Hotel will be built eventually imo. I would think Truist is a strong advocate for this being built too. This is going to be their hotel per se like the Ritz is to BOA and Jw to Ally. Parking won’t be an issue. Most clients flying into CLT will just take a taxi there and for others valet option like CLT mentioned. 
 

Theater would be fine by itself, however, the synergy the hotel above would provide is irreplaceable and the much needed 24/7 foot traffic in that area is much needed as well. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[KJHburg]

drive by photos on this foggy evening.   and as others have said remember the Museum Tower 30 plus floors of apartments was built on top of the Mint Museum uptown years after its completion.  

[Yo Diaz!]

Yes, buildings are built on top of other buildings or parking decks.
Yes this building has a foundation they spent a long time working on to accommodate a 420’ hotel tower.
The thing with this building is construction already takes up most of 6th street and a lane on Tryon (if it doesn’t it will) for materials delivery and staging, etc. Main Access and egress to the renovated theater and bottom portion of the hotel is 6th and Tryon. I don’t think there will be access from the Truist Parking Garage.
Main entrance to Mint museum was not where the museum tower was. The lending tree deck is separate from those buildings for when that hotel is built. 615 S college was built over the deck that was already there for the Westin. All these buildings with there occupants were or are far less affected by projects after the fact than the intercontinental and theater would be should they only go so far now, open for business and start up hotel tower construction again in a few years. Those are all different buildings built on a different structure. The portion of the hotel we see being built now is not a different structure with a hotel on top. It is the bottom portion of the hotel.
Also elevators are really expensive. Freight and passenger. I can’t see dropping tons of money to put those in to only go up 5 or 6 floors to then have to put new ones in for the whole tower later. Elevators for those buildings built on parking decks is a different one time deal. Same for the museum tower elevators. Not to mention all the other phases of construction to be added and/or re worked.
Not saying it can’t be done or wouldn’t be done. Perhaps they’d close the theater for a year or so while the tower is built. I’m just thinking of the logistics and the impact at streets and for the theater and current portion of this hotel should it play out that way.
To me it makes more sense if the project is already funded to just do the whole thing now. Slow roll it though if need be.
I don’t really see why they wouldn’t keep going. The JW Marriot didnt stop construction.


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[JHart]

8 hours ago, Yo Diaz! said:

Also elevators are really expensive. Freight and passenger. I can’t see dropping tons of money to put those in to only go up 5 or 6 floors to then have to put new ones in for the whole tower later. Elevators for those buildings built on parking decks is a different one time deal. Same for the museum tower elevators. Not to mention all the other phases of construction to be added and/or re worked.
Not saying it can’t be done or wouldn’t be done. Perhaps they’d close the theater for a year or so while the tower is built. I’m just thinking of the logistics and the impact at streets and for the theater and current portion of this hotel should it play out that way.
To me it makes more sense if the project is already funded to just do the whole thing now. Slow roll it though if need be.
I don’t really see why they wouldn’t keep going. The JW Marriot didnt stop construction.

The elevator part really hits it home too because they are using a climbing elevator crane for construction which I would assume would mean they would also need to demo even more of the finished theatre project to put the crane back in.  I don't even think there's anywhere else to even put a different type of crane to continue construction unless you closed an entire street. Of course with today's engineering and planning it would be physically possible to get this to work but once you start assigning dollar values to things the hotel project just keeps getting less and less attractive, even with the design/engineering bill already paid for

[DMann]

I don't believe the elevator tower crane was going to be the crane for the building of the hotel.  My understanding is that it would be outside the structure.

[Yo Diaz!]

I don't believe the elevator tower crane was going to be the crane for the building of the hotel.  My understanding is that it would be outside the structure.

Yeah I kind of remember last fall someone here said they had talked to the super or assistant super that said they would be putting a tower crane outside the structure on the Tryon side.


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[queensguy06]

21 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

At a high end hotel, this is solved by offering valet parking only where the cars are located off site. People don't expect to self park necessarily at a downtown hotel that is 4 or 5 stars. Examples include the Kimpton Tryon Park where the only option is to valet park for $35 a night. The hotel is very popular and has a 4.5 / 5 on TripAdvisor.

This.  It is quite common across the country.  Here in Denver I know of no less than 4/5 hotels downtown that do not have onsite parking but you can valet for anywhere from $35-$55 a night.  I love Kimpton hotels and that is where I stay when I'm back in Charlotte.  They even offer a Maserati SUV courtesy vehicle with driver that I use to get around downtown, and this is also common with other high end hotels.

No onsite parking is the least of the concerns facing this project if they decide to mothball it for now.

[CLT Development]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:05 AM, Yo Diaz! said:

Yes, buildings are built on top of other buildings or parking decks.
Yes this building has a foundation they spent a long time working on to accommodate a 420’ hotel tower.
The thing with this building is construction already takes up most of 6th street and a lane on Tryon (if it doesn’t it will) for materials delivery and staging, etc. Main Access and egress to the renovated theater and bottom portion of the hotel is 6th and Tryon. I don’t think there will be access from the Truist Parking Garage.
Main entrance to Mint museum was not where the museum tower was. The lending tree deck is separate from those buildings for when that hotel is built. 615 S college was built over the deck that was already there for the Westin. All these buildings with there occupants were or are far less affected by projects after the fact than the intercontinental and theater would be should they only go so far now, open for business and start up hotel tower construction again in a few years. Those are all different buildings built on a different structure. The portion of the hotel we see being built now is not a different structure with a hotel on top. It is the bottom portion of the hotel.
Also elevators are really expensive. Freight and passenger. I can’t see dropping tons of money to put those in to only go up 5 or 6 floors to then have to put new ones in for the whole tower later. Elevators for those buildings built on parking decks is a different one time deal. Same for the museum tower elevators. Not to mention all the other phases of construction to be added and/or re worked.
Not saying it can’t be done or wouldn’t be done. Perhaps they’d close the theater for a year or so while the tower is built. I’m just thinking of the logistics and the impact at streets and for the theater and current portion of this hotel should it play out that way.
To me it makes more sense if the project is already funded to just do the whole thing now. Slow roll it though if need be.
I don’t really see why they wouldn’t keep going. The JW Marriot didnt stop construction.


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The elevators in place are for a 30 floor building not 5-6, they don't need to add anything. They didn't just change course to a small elevator.

Funding is EB-5 which has been affected by the pandemic, and the lack of immigration because of Covid. 

If a hotel doesn't start construction here within 2 years I'll pay for a urban planet donut extravaganza. 

On 2/13/2021 at 2:50 PM, queensguy06 said:

No onsite parking is the least of the concerns facing this project if they decide to mothball it for now.

Absolutely spot on. Really is an asinine argument, as it will have valet parking. I've stayed in hotels all across the country with no deeded parking, including in much smaller towns like Durham and Lexington, KY, 

Edited February 15, 2021 by The Real Clayton

[KJHburg]

^^  I will provide at least 6 dozen of NC born America's finest doughnuts when this prediction comes true. 

[JacksonH]

14 hours ago, The Real Clayton said:

If a hotel doesn't start construction here within 2 years I'll pay for a urban planet donut extravaganza. 

 

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

^^  I will provide at least 6 dozen of NC born America's finest doughnuts when this prediction comes true. 

Wow, a donut extravaganza if the tower doesn't get built and dozens of donuts if it does.  It's a win-win Urban Planet Charlotte.  And for Weight Watchers.

[SentioVenia]

From yesterday afternoon.

[DMann]

Apparently the elevator opening next to the main elevator shaft will be an elevator for access to the Theatre lobby and meeting rooms above.

[j-man]

Since this bottom portion is only being constructed, does anyone know the completion date?

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Thanks for the pics SV! Despite the small footprint this is being constructed on, the lobby looks pretty big with some context around it now. That’s going to be a grand lobby with those tall glass windows!  Great project, just hope the hotel pans out someday. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[QCxpat]

Today 9:15 a.m.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by QCxpat

[KJHburg]

from the Biz Journal this morning on the completion and opening of the Carolina Theater

""Michael Marsicano, president and CEO of the Foundation For The Carolinas, which owns the site, now expects the historic theater to finish construction around the middle of 2022.  Marsicano's remarks came during a virtual event hosted by the World Affairs Council of Charlotte yesterday, reports local NPR affiliate WFAE-FM. He detailed unexpected environmental problems and other delays the project has faced, much of which has been previously reported by CBJ. Back in early 2020, the theater restoration was expected to wrap up by mid-2021. Since that time, the planned construction of an Intercontinental Hotel at the site has been put on hold.  "The bottom line here is that it will be completed in the summer of 2022, I guarantee it, and it will open in the fall of 2022 to a weeklong celebration," Marsicano said during yesterday's talk, per WFAE.""

BUZZ: New target for wrapping up work on Carolina Theatre - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

[Yo Diaz!]

from the Biz Journal this morning on the completion and opening of the Carolina Theater
""Michael Marsicano, president and CEO of the Foundation For The Carolinas, which owns the site, now expects the historic theater to finish construction around the middle of 2022.  Marsicano's remarks came during a virtual event hosted by the World Affairs Council of Charlotte yesterday, reports local NPR affiliate WFAE-FM. He detailed unexpected environmental problems and other delays the project has faced, much of which has been previously reported by CBJ. Back in early 2020, the theater restoration was expected to wrap up by mid-2021. Since that time, the planned construction of an Intercontinental Hotel at the site has been put on hold.  "The bottom line here is that it will be completed in the summer of 2022, I guarantee it, and it will open in the fall of 2022 to a weeklong celebration," Marsicano said during yesterday's talk, per WFAE.""
BUZZ: New target for wrapping up work on Carolina Theatre - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

It takes what it takes.


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[bobmiki]

I wonder if there was any signage going up for this project like an outdoor video wall at this location.  It would look fantastic with the theatre with marquee shows and other local ads on it.  I'm pretty sure permitting wouldn't be a big issue because it's more of the area being more commercial and office than residential.  Would love to see some more LED screens up and down Tryon street.

[dubone]

"to honor the architecture on the block, we have decided to cover all ornate architectural features on the building with a bank billboard." maybe

[nakers2]

Any ideas on what the unexpected issues might have been? And could it affect the Discovery Place expansion and the new library project? 

[CLT Development]

2 hours ago, nakers2 said:

Any ideas on what the unexpected issues might have been? And could it affect the Discovery Place expansion and the new library project? 

giant underground water pocket that had to be drained and shored back up to keep from refilling.

Edited February 28, 2021 by The Real Clayton