New Embassy Suites - Monroe North

[Nitro]

I hate it when people say this. It is very possible to go through the LEED process with VERY minimal, if any, additional costs. Its great that they will be as 'environmentally friendly as possible' but thats an easy comment to make and not follow through with... The LEED process provides a standard and guidelines to follow to ensure environmentally conscious design.

You got it bro......Done properly and by knowledgeable people, LEED certification costs can be pretty minimal.

[GRDadof3]

You got it bro......Done properly and by knowledgeable people, LEED certification costs can be pretty minimal.

Sounds like they need a LEED Expert/Consultant to help them realize how minimal the cost can be. (and the extra positive press it will give them)

[Libertarian]

Knape thinks the new hotel "...depends on how active the resistance to a Renaissance Zone extension becomes." I guess this is the question that usually arises when tinkering with who pays taxes and who doesnt. Definately a tough issue and I can see both sides of the argument. Regardless, I really hope this gets built. Does anyone know of a time-line on this? When will we know the fate of the Ren Zone decision?

http://blog.mlive.com/knapescorner/

[GRDadof3]

Knape thinks the new hotel "...depends on how active the resistance to a Renaissance Zone extension becomes." I guess this is the question that usually arises when tinkering with who pays taxes and who doesnt. Definately a tough issue and I can see both sides of the argument. Regardless, I really hope this gets built. Does anyone know of a time-line on this? When will we know the fate of the Ren Zone decision?

http://blog.mlive.com/knapescorner/

Does he mean "resistance from other hotel developers" to extending the Ren Zone? And didn't the JW Marriott, that he mentions, already get a huge tax break? I don't foresee much resistance from the city commission, based on their new Ren Zone extension guidelines:

Developers must meet two criteria under the Threshold Criteria section to get a Ren Zone extension (bold sections are additions to the policy wording):

a. Project will be a catalyst for a major development or

for multiple redevelopment opportunities in the City.

b. Project will create significant new City income tax

within three years of project completion.

Under

[joeDowntown]

Now that is a fine looking building. It totally fits with the Industrial past of the area!

Joe

[Prankster]

Based on the study conducted for the convention center, how many more hotel rooms were predicted that downtown could sustain?

[e49418]

This is a great project and would be a excellent catalyst for further development in the area. Hopefully people from Suburban Inns are reading this and see the support from the community.

I also agree that they should not rule out LEED certification. I don't think a building should be built in this area without LEED as a starting point. It should be ruled out only if there are compelling reasons not to pursue.

Are there any ROI studies on LEED certification costs for new construction?

[jbr12]

There are a number of studies that not only show that 'building green' has a minimal impact to the cost of the project, but also the benefits of building green.

Here is a report prepared for California's Sustainable Building Task Force in October 2003. It provides the first rigorous assessment of the costs and benefits of green buildings.

The Costs and Financial Benefits of Green Buildings by Greg Kats

A chunk from the intro letter

This study, The Costs and Financial Benefits of Green Building, represents the most definitive cost benefit analysis of green building ever conducted. It demonstrates conclusively that sustainable building is a cost-effective investment, and its findings should encourage communities across the country to “build green.”

The study breaks it down to talk about the premiums between the different levels of LEED Certification. Certified buildings have an increased premium of 0.66%, silver = 2.11%, gold = 1.82% and platinum = 6.50%. The overall premium was 1.84%. This study is an analysis of 33 projects (25 office buildings, 8 schools). The majority of the premium increase was a result of additional SOFT COSTS (Arch, Engin & Contractor Fees) NOT hard costs

Here is another group of studies in regards to Daylighting and Productivity and Retail Sales:

http://www.h-m-g.com/projects/daylighting/...daylighting.htm

One thing to remember is that "Green Design" isn't just about a ROI (although there are studies that prove this too, I just don't have them on hand). "Green Design" also has the ability to increase worker producivity, increase retail sales and create a better built environment in general

Here is another study that shows the cost of the building through the entire life cycle... compares Market rate vs. the different levels of LEED Certification

http://elements.bnim.com/resources/2002-report.pdf

[AlexPKeaton]

A chunk from the intro letter

The study breaks it down to talk about the premiums between the different levels of LEED Certification. Certified buildings have an increased premium of 0.66%, silver = 2.11%, gold = 1.82% and platinum = 6.50%. The overall premium was 1.84%. This study is an analysis of 33 projects (25 office buildings, 8 schools). The majority of the premium increase was a result of additional SOFT COSTS (Arch, Engin & Contractor Fees) NOT hard costs

So are you saying that the soft costs would be lower if architects and contractors that are experienced in green design were used?

[jbr12]

I would say they should. The firm may also use it has a way to increase profits

[Libertarian]

Does he mean "resistance from other hotel developers" to extending the Ren Zone? And didn't the JW Marriott, that he mentions, already get a huge tax break? I don't foresee much resistance from the city commission, based on their new Ren Zone extension guidelines:

.......

The last article states they hope to go before the city commission next month.

"DeVos went off script during his comments, which ranged from jabs at casinos, Gov. Jennifer Granholm and other would-be hotel developers to his recollections of the development of DeVos Performance Hall and the Amway Grand Plaza." http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2007/09/hear...arriott_an.html

This was from mlive. It would be great to be able to read his comments verbatim regarding other "would-be hotel developers." I am not totally surprised since he is a business man, but come on. The JW is in a whole another league compared to what this project is proposing and it is pretty lame that Devos would allegedly make a jab (during the JW opening ceremony!) or two at a local company developing NoMo--if that is indeed who he was targeting (probably).

[mgreven]

It would be great to be able to read his comments verbatim regarding other "would-be hotel developers." I am not totally surprised since he is a business man, but come on. The JW is in a whole another league compared to what this project is proposing and it is pretty lame that Devos would allegedly make a jab (during the JW opening ceremony!) or two at a local company developing NoMo--if that is indeed who he was targeting (probably).

I would assume that he was referring to Jack Buchanan and the city hall deal...

[Prankster]

I would assume that he was referring to Jack Buchanan and the city hall deal...

Probably didn't like the fact that it made them rush the JW announcement a little sooner than they wanted to. Also gave them some negative press because they got some help from the city, while Buchanan couldn't get any.

[Veloise]

"DeVos went off script during his comments, which ranged from jabs at casinos, Gov. Jennifer Granholm and other would-be hotel developers to his recollections of the development of DeVos Performance Hall and the Amway Grand Plaza." http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2007/09/hear...arriott_an.html

This was from mlive. It would be great to be able to read his comments verbatim regarding other "would-be hotel developers." I am not totally surprised since he is a business man, but come on. The JW is in a whole another league compared to what this project is proposing and it is pretty lame that Devos would allegedly make a jab (during the JW opening ceremony!) or two at a local company developing NoMo--if that is indeed who he was targeting (probably).

What a classy guy.

Remember last year, the "we don't need no steenkin' K'zoo Promise because poor kids can become pro basketballers"??

Sheesh.

[Yankee Fan]

Having been at the opening of the JW, I have to say that Rich was not slamming other would be developers, at least that is not how anyone that I was with took it.

Prior to and right after his comments about other developers, DeVos was talking about the fact that many (which includes people on UP) lament the fact that his name and Jay's name are on so many buildings downtown. His point was that every time that the city has needed something, like a hotel, like a convention center, like an arena, it always started the same way: A fundraiser would happen and nobody would step up to the plate. So, time and time again, he and Jay would make the decision to step up only after no one else did.

Here was his big point: if you don't like his name or Jay's name on the buildings, then please step up and provide the financial backing to make it happen. His secondary point about developers: it is great that people have big ideas, but when you don't have and/or cannot get financing to make a project happen, it is just wishful thinking.

As an aside, he pointed out that for 27 (?) years, he and Jay put all of the profits made at the Amway Grand Plaza hotel back in to the facility so that it stayed top notch and GR had a world class hotel. This is also known as pro bono development being that they did this without taking anything out of it for themselves. Talk about commitment.

If he was slamming anyone, he was slamming the old and new money in GR that is not part of the Amway families because I believe he feels that they have not given back to the city at the level that they should. His shots were clearly aimed at those that can afford to donate big dollars but have chosen not to. And he was calling them out in front of everyone. It was actually pretty cool and courageous on his part.

[GRDadof3]

Having been at the opening of the JW, I have to say that Rich was not slamming other would be developers, at least that is not how anyone that I was with took it.

Prior to and right after his comments about other developers, DeVos was talking about the fact that many (which includes people on UP) lament the fact that his name and Jay's name are on so many buildings downtown. His point was that every time that the city has needed something, like a hotel, like a convention center, like an arena, it always started the same way: A fundraiser would happen and nobody would step up to the plate. So, time and time again, he and Jay would make the decision to step up only after no one else did.

Here was his big point: if you don't like his name or Jay's name on the buildings, then please step up and provide the financial backing to make it happen. His secondary point about developers: it is great that people have big ideas, but when you don't have and/or cannot get financing to make a project happen, it is just wishful thinking.

As an aside, he pointed out that for 27 (?) years, he and Jay put all of the profits made at the Amway Grand Plaza hotel back in to the facility so that it stayed top notch and GR had a world class hotel. This is also known as pro bono development being that they did this without taking anything out of it for themselves. Talk about commitment.

If he was slamming anyone, he was slamming the old and new money in GR that is not part of the Amway families because I believe he feels that they have not given back to the city at the level that they should. His shots were clearly aimed at those that can afford to donate big dollars but have chosen not to. And he was calling them out in front of everyone. It was actually pretty cool and courageous on his part.

Well I'm glad he took the high road in the silly debate about building names. BTW, it's funny that he mentioned the whole "Amway building name" conspiracy issue when the building he was standing in front of had John W. Marriott's name on it. It's great that he was able to sink $100 Million into the J.W., it will be quite another feat to keep the place filled.

In news regarding the Monroe North hotel, the Ren Zone application is not on the Sept. 25th agenda, but we'll keep an eye out for October's city commission agenda. They did mention that they hoped they could make next month's meeting, which would be October (just optimistically looking for it on the 25th). It could still show up at the last minute.

[torgo]

Did anyone see the piece on wzzm last night on this thing (the hotel, not DeVos blathering)? I was only half paying attention, but the developer said they hope to break ground in the spring. I don't know what kind of assumptions that is based on.

[sparky05]

What a classy guy.

Remember last year, the "we don't need no steenkin' K'zoo Promise because poor kids can become pro basketballers"??

Sheesh.

Forgive me, but I have a very hard time believing that you've accurately captured the spirit of Rich DeVos' comment there... How about some context?

[wingbert]

Here was his big point: if you don't like his name or Jay's name on the buildings, then please step up and provide the financial backing to make it happen. His secondary point about developers: it is great that people have big ideas, but when you don't have and/or cannot get financing to make a project happen, it is just wishful thinking.

I think this is a bit of verbal slight of hand by old Rich. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who would dispute the fact that Jay and Rich have done wonderful things for the city of Grand Rapids. However, he veers of course when attempting to tie their financial backing of these projects to the perceived inveterate compulsion to place their names on the buildings themselves. Is he saying that they had no choice? That they were compelled against their will? That seems a bit disingenuous.

and now for the good old bible-based slam...

Luke, chapter 18

"9": And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

"10": Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

"11": The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

"12": I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

"13": And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

"14": I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

"15": And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.

"16": But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

"17": Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

"18": And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

"19": And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

"20": Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

"21": And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

"22": Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

"23": And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

"24": And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

"25": For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

[GRDadof3]

Forgive me, but I have a very hard time believing that you've accurately captured the spirit of Rich DeVos' comment there... How about some context?

At a Grand Rapids Economic Club meeting last year, he said regarding the Kalamazoo Promise "If it's free, it's not worth much", and that urban kids would be better off skipping school and earn millions becoming NBA stars. It was during the campaign, and Dick Devos had to defend his Dad's comments while on the campaign trail.

But this is probably veering way off-topic, as Devos will probably have nothing to do with whether this hotel gets off the ground or not. It will all come down to brass tacks. And since this hotel does not require any kind of land swap or city owned/leasing of parking spaces, just the Ren Zone extension, then I think it has a better than average chance of happening. Plus, they don't need to pre-sell 50% of the hotel rooms to break ground.

[sparky05]

At a Grand Rapids Economic Club meeting last year, he said regarding the Kalamazoo Promise "If it's free, it's not worth much", and that urban kids would be better off skipping school and earn millions becoming NBA stars. It was during the campaign, and Dick Devos had to defend his Dad's comments while on the campaign trail.

Hmm. I guess I'd have to see his address to get the context. I can get what he's saying on the first part - something given to you for free is not appreciated as much as something that you have to work for - but I have a hard time believing that a person as business minded as RDV would believe that urban kids in general would be better off trying to become NBA stars. I'm guessing there was probably more nuance involved.

Oh well. you're right. This is all OT...

[Veloise]

Hmm. I guess I'd have to see his address to get the context. I can get what he's saying on the first part - something given to you for free is not appreciated as much as something that you have to work for - but I have a hard time believing that a person as business minded as RDV would believe that urban kids in general would be better off trying to become NBA stars. I'm guessing there was probably more nuance involved.

...

I'm not able to find the exact quote right now. He mentioned that (paraphrasing) he knows many kids who dropped out of school, and they are now millionaires and working for him (meaning the Florida pro sports team he owns).

Astute googling would unearth it.

ETA: I should cut the poor ol' guy -- RDV is 81 -- some slack. My father is 83 and he says wacky things, based on his version of Truth and Facts, all the time. E.g. burying empty cans in the backyard is good for the soil because the iron (!!) in the cans replenishes nutrients.

(Nope, I don't eat his food.)

[highwayguy]

I'm not able to find the exact quote right now. He mentioned that (paraphrasing) he knows many kids who dropped out of school, and they are now millionaires and working for him (meaning the Florida pro sports team he owns).

Astute googling would unearth it.

"I have kids who work for me who don't have a college education that make millions of dollars. They play basketball."

[GRDadof3]

"I have kids who work for me who don't have a college education that make millions of dollars. They play basketball."

Thanks highwayguy. Now that we have the exact quote, can we all shake our heads and move back to the topic of the thread?

[GRguy]

OK, maybe back to the topic a bit. Hilton Garden Inn does not allow restaurants in their properties (brand creep into the full service Hilton). They may get a waiver from the franchisor, but a rooftop restaurant would be outside the envelope of the HGI brand standard.