Jump to content

Charlotte Hornets and the Arena


Raintree21

Recommended Posts

On 2/14/2017 at 8:13 AM, HopHead said:

The Hornets biggest problem is that they aren't physical in the paint. Last night was a prime example. They were out rebounded something like 51-32 and the Sixers held a huge advantage in points in the paint as well. Cody is the closest thing they have to being that guy but he can't stay healthy. In part because he spends more time taking punishment than dishing it out. Hornets don't have any real tradeable assets (Kemba is the centerpiece of this team and you can't trade Batum's contract). I'm with AH on Cho. We're in this predicament because of him. It's not like we can rely on a the draft because that's never worked in our favor. Problem is I'm not sure who you bring in to replace Cho.. 

The problem was at the end of last season Batum, Big Al, Jeremy Lin, Marvin Williams, and Courtney Lee all became free agents. There's no way the Hornets could've re-signed all of them with the explosion in salaries from the new TV deal.  Since Lin and Lee were undervalued veterans who helped the team make the playoffs in their only season here, the Hornets had to follow a similar strategy of shopping for value.  Unfortunately Hibbert and Bellinelli haven't performed at the same level.  

On 2/14/2017 at 7:06 AM, ah59396 said:

I'm usually not a big "Fire this guy" fan, but I've had enough of Cho.  He's managed to build an old team that has marginal talent filled with bloated contracts and an awful track record of drafting.  He's the antithesis of a good GM.

He was hired by MJ cause he helped draft Durant-Westbrook-Harden in three successive years from 2007-09 when he was the Sonics/OKC assistant GM. It doesn't get any better than that. All three will make the HOF some day.

Things would've been different if the ping pong ball resulted in Anthony Davis in 2012. Everyone knew it was a weak draft after him. MKG will never be Kevin Durant, the best #2 pick in the history of the NBA.  Cody was drafted at #4 in 2013 and is great when healthy but no Russell Westbrook, also a #4 pick and perennial all-star. The 2012 and 2013 drafts are rated two of the worst in history and that's why the Hornets haven't been able to build a team through the draft like OKC did.

Edited by ChessieCat
Link to comment
Share on other sites


17 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

The problem was at the end of last season Batum, Big Al, Jeremy Lin, Marvin Williams, and Courtney Lee all became free agents. There's no way the Hornets could've re-signed all of them with the explosion in salaries from the new TV deal.  Since Lin and Lee were undervalued veterans who helped the team make the playoffs in their only season here, the Hornets had to follow a similar strategy of shopping for value.  Unfortunately Hibbert and Bellinelli haven't performed at the same level.  

He was hired by MJ cause he helped draft Durant-Westbrook-Harden in three successive years from 2007-09 when he was the Sonics/OKC assistant GM. It doesn't get any better than that. All three will make the HOF some day.

Things would've been different if the ping pong ball resulted in Anthony Davis in 2012. Everyone knew it was a weak draft after him. MKG will never be Kevin Durant, the best #2 pick in the history of the NBA.  Cody was drafted at #4 in 2013 and is great when healthy but no Russell Westbrook, also a #4 pick and perennial all-star. The 2012 and 2013 drafts are rated two of the worst in history and that's why the Hornets haven't been able to build a team through the draft like OKC did.

Eh, the 2012 draft wasn't that bad outside of Davis.  We took MKG over Bradley Beal, Dion Waiters, Damian Lillard, Andre Drummond, Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes.  Only Green was taken outside the top 10.  So Cho missed big there.

2013 we took Zeller over Ben McLemore, Nerlens Noel, Trey Burke, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Steven Adams and Michael Carter-Williams.  All top 15 picks.

2014 we took Noah Vonleh 9th overall.  Is he even in the league anymore?  We took him in front of Zack LaVine and Rodney Hood.

2015 we took Frank Kaminsky in front of Myles Turner, Trey Lyles (2016 rising all star participant), and Devin Booker.

 

Cho hit three homeruns in OKC, but he's been awful in Charlotte.  How much good grace does a guy earn from a job he did 6 years ago for a different team?  He had 4 straight years of top 10 draft picks and botched them all.  2 of which were top 5 picks.

 

In general, we suck in the draft and I have very little optimism that'll change.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^I say we forget about trying to be good in the draft for a year and instead focus on making a big splash in free agency.

I hear there's a guy in the Bay Area who could potentially be free after this season.  I also hear he's got a pretty good three point shot.  If nothing else his presence would probably create sell out crowds every night.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

^^^I say we forget about trying to be good in the draft for a year and instead focus on making a big splash in free agency.

I hear there's a guy in the Bay Area who could potentially be free after this season.  I also hear he's got a pretty good three point shot.  If nothing else his presence would probably create sell out crowds every night.

 

There is little reason for Curry to come here.  He's on one of the most prolific offenses ever assembled and lives in San Francisco, a major media market.  Part of the issue with the Hornets is that we are a small market team, free agents of a high caliber will not want to come here.  It's why we have to pay guys like Nic Batum max dollars.  We also only have $3m in cap room.  Curry would have to walk away from guaranteed championship contention for the next decade, to a team that struggles to make the playoffs in the paltry east.

The Curry situation to me, isn't similar to Lebron "coming home".  If Curry is ever a Hornet, it'll be as a mid 30 something in the twilight of his career.  Keep in mind that GS also has the option to offer him more than anyone else.  I like your optimism, but it'll never happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.ssf/2017/02/how_new_orleans_landed_the_201.html

This got my blood boiling. 

"Charlotte officials considered it the largest event the city would have hosted since the 2012 Democratic National Convention. Instead of the All-Star game, the Spectrum Center in suburban Charlotte will host a Christian music tour for $10 a ticket."

Suburban??? 

woo they changed it after this.

Screen Shot 2017-02-20 at 9.30.47 AM.png

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/17/2017 at 9:48 AM, ah59396 said:

Eh, the 2012 draft wasn't that bad outside of Davis.  We took MKG over Bradley Beal, Dion Waiters, Damian Lillard, Andre Drummond, Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes.  Only Green was taken outside the top 10.  So Cho missed big there.

2013 we took Zeller over Ben McLemore, Nerlens Noel, Trey Burke, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Steven Adams and Michael Carter-Williams.  All top 15 picks.

2014 we took Noah Vonleh 9th overall.  Is he even in the league anymore?  We took him in front of Zack LaVine and Rodney Hood.

2015 we took Frank Kaminsky in front of Myles Turner, Trey Lyles (2016 rising all star participant), and Devin Booker.

 

Cho hit three homeruns in OKC, but he's been awful in Charlotte.  How much good grace does a guy earn from a job he did 6 years ago for a different team?  He had 4 straight years of top 10 draft picks and botched them all.  2 of which were top 5 picks.

 

In general, we suck in the draft and I have very little optimism that'll change.  

Agree with overall sentiment but several of the players you mentioned are worse than the player we drafted (McClemore, Burke, MCW are a few examples).  Cody is a good player when healthy and it's too early to give up on Frank (though that was a terrible pick based on who was available).  Cho shouldn't get credit for OKC and he was fired in Portland...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, JBS said:

Agree with overall sentiment but several of the players you mentioned are worse than the player we drafted (McClemore, Burke, MCW are a few examples).  Cody is a good player when healthy and it's too early to give up on Frank (though that was a terrible pick based on who was available).  Cho shouldn't get credit for OKC and he was fired in Portland...

Yeah, Cody is our best draft pick in recent memory for sure, and I don't disagree with you per say, though most NBA player rankings that exist do put McClemore, Burke & MCW ahead of Cody.  Not sure I agree with that though.  Cody at 10 or later I think would be an awesome pick.  Cody at 4 I have a hard time with, but you pick where you are told to, so ultimately I'm okay with that decision.

I'm probably wrong on Kaminsky, but I just don't ever see him panning out.

 

Interesting to watch the Pelicans make a splash yesterday and get Cousins.  Wish we could do something like that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^That's awesome RDF lol

In regards to Curry, I think his situation is more similar to Lebron than you think.  Golden State is basically doing the same thing that Miami did with "the big 3".  Golden State, however, is still waiting to cash in on the rings.  And just like Miami, they couldn't afford to keep them all...the thing that hurts our chances of getting him sooner, is losing to Cleveland with a 3-1 lead.  Curry is still hungry and wants to get a ring(s) with golden state first (his best chance is there anyways).  I disagree with you on that there is little reason for him to come here.  Just as Lebron bleeds Akron, Curry bleeds Charlotte.  He knows he would be the man here and having his dad doing the announcing, is just the cherry on top.  I have them winning the championship this year.  I've always wondered who would come home first, CP3 or Curry and I think it will be Curry.  CP3 is loyal to the Winston-Salem/Lewisville area.  But Curry is loyal here and has more reason to play here than CP3.  Curry is what 28/29...I think after a ring or two he will come back.  They can't keep him and durant and everyone else forever.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

^That's awesome RDF lol

In regards to Curry, I think his situation is more similar to Lebron than you think.  Golden State is basically doing the same thing that Miami did with "the big 3".  Golden State, however, is still waiting to cash in on the rings.  And just like Miami, they couldn't afford to keep them all...the thing that hurts our chances of getting him sooner, is losing to Cleveland with a 3-1 lead.  Curry is still hungry and wants to get a ring(s) with golden state first (his best chance is there anyways).  I disagree with you on that there is little reason for him to come here.  Just as Lebron bleeds Akron, Curry bleeds Charlotte.  He knows he would be the man here and having his dad doing the announcing, is just the cherry on top.  I have them winning the championship this year.  I've always wondered who would come home first, CP3 or Curry and I think it will be Curry.  CP3 is loyal to the Winston-Salem/Lewisville area.  But Curry is loyal here and has more reason to play here than CP3.  Curry is what 28/29...I think after a ring or two he will come back.  They can't keep him and durant and everyone else forever.

Maybe I'm underplaying his allegiance, but I still contend we won't see him in Charlotte until he doesn't matter as much.  Most articles I'm seeing now have him signing a $200m+ contract with Golden State through 2022.  That would make him 34/35 years old.  So we would get him on the back end of his historic career, where he would probably be less explosive to the basket and need to rely even more heavily on his 3 point shooting.  He'd still be good, but he won't be the MVP level Steph Curry we see right now.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My wife just found this on teh internets so it must be true:

"

When Zeller plays, Charlotte has outscored opponents by 175 points in 1044 minutes.  To put that in perspective, that the scoring differential of a 64-win team (not a typo).  When Zeller's not on the floor doing basketball things, the Hornets scoring differential is akin to a 26-win outfit.....the Hornets are 22-17 when Zeller is in uniform (putting them roughly on pace to repeat their 48-win season from last year) and a dreadful 2-15 when he isn't.

"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't tell if the Hornets are bad, or just tanking.  But I'll take it.  Hopefully we get a top 3 pick and trade it to Chicago along with MKG or something to get Butler.

 

Kemba

Butler

Batum

Zeller

Center (maybe Kaminsky if he can get his crap together)

 

That's a pretty solid starting lineup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be nice!  Although I would put Zeller at the 5 and Frank/Marvin at the 4 instead.  But talk about frustration.  I wish I knew the stat on how many 4th quarter leads have we blown and lost the game?  These aren't little 2, 3, 8 point leads...these are double digit leads going into the 4th and we somehow lose every game.  I've also lost faith in the lottery system...think its stupid/rigged lol.  Maybe if they drew the ping pong balls on live television or something, but I just don't trust the system.  The back then Bobcats were very very bad, not once did we get the number 1 pick.  Hell, out of the entire life of Hornets 1.0, Bobcats, and Hornets 2.0...over the duration of almost 30 years, we have gotten the number 1 pick ONCE.  And as everyone knows, even our lottery picks (top 10 pick) are questionable.  So count me in as a person who doesn't believe in tanking (may the odds be never in your favor) and just make the playoffs however possible, even as the 8th seed.  Build off that momentum and excitement that the playoffs bring to the city/fans and hopefully that translates to bringing in better talent.  Talent wants to come to perennial playoff contender teams, not perennial lottery teams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

I wish I knew the stat on how many 4th quarter leads have we blown and lost the game?  These aren't little 2, 3, 8 point leads...these are double digit leads going into the 4th and we somehow lose every game.  

They've blown 12, 4th quarter leads this year. The team record is 13 I believe. Beyond frustrating.

 

53 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

I can't tell if the Hornets are bad, or just tanking.  But I'll take it.  Hopefully we get a top 3 pick and trade it to Chicago along with MKG or something to get Butler.

 

Kemba

Butler

Batum

Zeller

Center (maybe Kaminsky if he can get his crap together)

 

That's a pretty solid starting lineup.

Kemba is the only one playing up to his abilities right now. Last night he seemed like the only one that didn't want to blow that lead in the 4th. Frank has improved quite a lot the last few weeks. Still think he needs another year to be where he can be. Batum has flat out sucked. I really think Clifford is the answer at coach. I would put money on the fact he'd have a new job the next day if the Hornets were dumb enough to fire him. Cho has just surrounded him with garbage. Especially with Cody being out for extended periods of time. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, HopHead said:

They've blown 12, 4th quarter leads this year. The team record is 13 I believe. Beyond frustrating.

 

Kemba is the only one playing up to his abilities right now. Last night he seemed like the only one that didn't want to blow that lead in the 4th. Frank has improved quite a lot the last few weeks. Still think he needs another year to be where he can be. Batum has flat out sucked. I really think Clifford is the answer at coach. I would put money on the fact he'd have a new job the next day if the Hornets were dumb enough to fire him. Cho has just surrounded him with garbage. Especially with Cody being out for extended periods of time. 

Missing Cody big time.  Frank IS playing much better, I agree.  They lost the last two games because their bigs are injured and the team is gassed in the fourth quarter.  Terrible timing on the trade.  Plumley isn't great but getting hurt right away was a killer.  AND, they need a legit backup point guard.   Love Batum but he's been disappointing, as has Marvin. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/24/2017 at 5:16 PM, JBS said:

Missing Cody big time.  Frank IS playing much better, I agree.  They lost the last two games because their bigs are injured and the team is gassed in the fourth quarter.  Terrible timing on the trade.  Plumley isn't great but getting hurt right away was a killer.  AND, they need a legit backup point guard.   Love Batum but he's been disappointing, as has Marvin. 

Cody is returning tonight! Not starting but will play. Probably want to ease him back into playing shape and limit his minutes this game, but great news. We play a very bad Lakers team and a very bad phoenix team (bottom 2 in the west). Next is 8th seed nuggets on Saturday and back home against a decent pacers team on Monday. If cody can stay healthy and get back in the starting rotation, this is the time to make a run and get some W's. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^just following-up on my previous statement. From the games I mentioned above with cody coming back, we won 3 out of the 4 games including a very good pacers team tonight. Just shows that if cody hadn't been injured for 3 plus weeks, we'd be in the 4-7th spot in the east I think. The next 9 out of 12 games are at home, gotta win those. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Pacers shot 3 free throws last night.  Total.   3 is the lowest number of attempts this season.

 Golden State attempted 2 in a game last season, vs PHI.    Opponents of Charlotte attempted 5 and 6 last season, the 2nd and 3rd lowest amounts.

 

Opponents of Charlotte attempted 4 and 5 in the season prior to that, the two lowest attempts of the season.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

So after two huge wins over the Wizards and Hawks the Hornets are only 3 games behind the 8th place Pistons and 3.5 games behind the 7th place Bucks. Our next four games are all winnable, at Orlando, home against Cleveland who may likely rest starters with a big match up with Washington the night after, then home against Phoenix, then home against 7th place Milwaukee. Crazy to think we actually have a chance to make the playoffs after this terrible season. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dylansukkert said:

So after two huge wins over the Wizards and Hawks the Hornets are only 3 games behind the 8th place Pistons and 3.5 games behind the 7th place Bucks. Our next four games are all winnable, at Orlando, home against Cleveland who may likely rest starters with a big match up with Washington the night after, then home against Phoenix, then home against 7th place Milwaukee. Crazy to think we actually have a chance to make the playoffs after this terrible season. 

I think it's too late but it's clear (to me at least) that they Hornets are a back up center or power forward (Plumlee maybe) away.  Frank is definitely better as a center, that's why we could add a PF instead.  I may be putting too much faith in Weber but he's definitely better than Sessions and Roberts and I love his energy.  If they could get Lamb to play D (his offensive game is great), they could be a 3-4 seed next year... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leave it to the Hornets to win games they shouldn't and lose games they should.  Every other team outside the top 8 is tanking royally to line themselves up for a shot at one of the deepest drafts in a long time and we are going to end up staggering into the playoffs to get swept by Cleveland and guarantee us the 15th pick, which would be very disappointing.  This draft is incredible up until about the 8-12 spot, depending on what you read, but drops off a bit from there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my estimation, the Hornets would need to probably win 9 of their last 12 games to make the playoffs as a 7 of 8 (no thanks) seed. And 9 of those games are against teams in the playoff mix. Very little margin for error but I really don't see them doing it. And honestly, I'd rather get a lottery pick than set themselves up for a 4 game sweep. Then again, it's not like they've ever nailed a draft pick other than Kemba. So I don't know what the hell I want. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, HopHead said:

In my estimation, the Hornets would need to probably win 9 of their last 12 games to make the playoffs as a 7 of 8 (no thanks) seed. And 9 of those games are against teams in the playoff mix. Very little margin for error but I really don't see them doing it. And honestly, I'd rather get a lottery pick than set themselves up for a 4 game sweep. Then again, it's not like they've ever nailed a draft pick other than Kemba. So I don't know what the hell I want. 

Agree, I would just like 2 more home games, especially with playoff crowds. Cody has worked well for us on the draft side but those two are about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Always play to win and make the playoffs.  When we were historically bad and should have gotten Anthony Davis, we got MKG (who I like) with 2nd pick.  But NO did get him, he's a superstar, and they still suck.  I doubt we'll make it but I would gladly take a first round series against Cleveland (so you're saying there's a chance?).  Successful franchises always make the playoffs...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.