Charlotte Hornets and the Arena

[HopHead]

^I don't think the few franchise stores, a small bowling alley and theater are going to mean much to the crowd that would come to an ACC game. They are more interested in having enough seats so all their supporters can come to the game which obviously the new NBA arena lacks. If downtown actually had some attractions that can't be had almost anywhere else, there might be something to this, but my guess is the other cities are going to make the point the NBA arena is just too small to meet these teams needs and they are going to agree.

The Charlotte Coliseum was built specifically to be the largest arena in the Carolinas, so that it could attract events such as this. That amazingly got forgotten in the push to get another NBA team here in Charlotte, and now the old problem is apparently returning. BTW, I have heard that bookings in the new arena are down 18% this year over last.

Well, I wasn't saying that EpiCentre was the end all be all for the ACC tournament. If it was, Charlotte would get this event far more than it does. It just provides something that Greensboro doensn't have. Sometimes having other options by the actual event itself will create an appeal. That was my point. I agree that not having the old Coliseum size definitely hurts us for this event. Too bad the arena isn't expandable by anymore than 20k seats.

I haven't heard how much bookings at the arena are down, but that's exactly why the Bobcats hired that new booking/marketing agency. If they do what they are supposed to do, you won't see those bookings down anymore. I can't remember the name off hand, but they are supposed to be pretty well renowned.

[1979Heel]

I still question what is really driving this. The difference between 23,000 and 20,000 equates to approximately a 1500 fan per school shortage between Greensboro and Charlotte. Saying Charlotte's facility is too small is a cop out. It's not as if there were only 23,000 ACC fans out there, and they nicely fit into Greensboro Coliseum, and they are left to watch the games on TV when the tournament is hosted in Charlotte.

I can't imagine that money has anything to do with it either. You could charge outrageous prices for tickets to this tournament, and you would still sell it out.

Actually, I think it's about 250 per school (3000/12=250.) But even 250 tix make a huge difference when you're trying to court donations, please wealthy alums, etc. Plus, there's an additional draw-the ability to rub shoulders with and do deals with wealthy, influential people. The games are key, but the peripherals are very important.

Greensboro is also favored over Charlotte because the ACC is headquartered there.

Edited March 13, 2008 by 1979Heel

[Charlotte_native]

The article in the Observer today also said that if the city as a whole basically puts on a good show, that nothing has been decided about where the next few tourney's will be played. It also said that attendees in the past have been very happy with the 'other' things to do in Charlotte. People who come to these tournaments don't just sit in a chair all day and night waiting for their one or two games to start. They eat, drink, shop, walk the streets, visit attractions, and otherwise become tourists for the city as a whole. Many also bring family or friends with them that don't have tickets to the game or don't care about it -- they are happy to have plenty to do while the games are going on. I can say that when any of these big events are in town, including conventions, that many of the attendees stay uptown and are all over the place, the more we have for them to do, regardless if it is the same thing you can do somewhere else, the better time they have (Epicentre among other new changes). Without things to do nearby I'd say the event weekend overall would be far more boring for those that come if we were as we were 10 years ago.

In the editorial part of the paper, either today or yesterday, someone wrote in from Raleigh who came to the CIAA -- he had nothing but praises for the event as a whole, the city, and the arena and said he was happy it was here and hoped it stays!

Today's article did hit on the shortage of seats for what the ACC would typically want, but it didn't say with certainty that it would be the sole driving factor in their upcoming choices, just that it was one of them.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[monsoon]

..... They eat, drink, shop, walk the streets, visit attractions, and otherwise become tourists for the city as a whole. Many also bring family or friends with them that don't have tickets to the game or don't care about it -- they are happy to have plenty to do while the games are going on. .....

Indeed I don't deny this, but I will point out that Greensboro has a better walkable downtown and stroll district with more to do than downtown Charlotte. (by far) As a side benefit they can also visit Old Salem in Winston-Salem for another similar experience. I've walked downtown Charlotte numerous times since the LRT opened and it really doesn't compare because again much of it is closed on the weekend afternoons. Sure the Greensboro coliseum isn't right in downtown, but IMO this was an urban design blunder made in Charlotte where, as I have said many times, sports venues create big black holes in downtown and they should be avoided.

I still question what is really driving this. The difference between 23,000 and 20,000 equates to approximately a 1500 fan per school shortage between Greensboro and Charlotte. Saying Charlotte's facility is too small is a cop out. ...

Not really. You are comparing the overflow seating in the Charlotte facility to the standard facility in Greensboro. It's closer to a 6000 person difference if you do a fair comparison.

[tiblerbrit]

Indeed I don't deny this, but I will point out that Greensboro has a better walkable downtown and stroll district with more to do than downtown Charlotte. (by far) As a side benefit they can also visit Old Salem in Winston-Salem for another similar experience. I've walked downtown Charlotte numerous times since the LRT opened and it really doesn't compare because again much of it is closed on the weekend afternoons. Sure the Greensboro coliseum isn't right in downtown, but IMO this was an urban design blunder made in Charlotte where, as I have said many times, sports venues create big black holes in downtown and they should be avoided.

Yes, but your plan involves large amounts of driving. Its 20-30 minutes each way to Old Salem. There aren't many hotels in downtown Greensboro and I'm sure most people just stay in hotels near the highway, if they stay at all. Charlotte can offer an experience that Greensboro can't; the ability to park your car after driving a long way and walk to everything you would need.

[monsoon]

.... Charlotte can offer an experience that Greensboro can't; the ability to park your car after driving a long way and walk to everything you would need.

It can, but it doesn't. As I noted above, there is relatively little to do in downtown on Saturday afternoon. My guess is that most people would end up driving to South Park, CM or something similar to find something to do. I am also guess than many people coming to the ACC will not choose to stay in the expensive hotels in downtown Charlotte.

[kickazzz2000]

It can, but it doesn't. As I noted above, there is relatively little to do in downtown on Saturday afternoon. My guess is that most people would end up driving to South Park, CM or something similar to find something to do. I am also guess than many people coming to the ACC will not choose to stay in the expensive hotels in downtown Charlotte.

I would imagine most fans coming to the ACC tournament would be staying in higher end hotels. General Public Tickets haven't been available for years. Most fans attending are of the "fat cat" alumni variety. These people generally aren't the ones staying in a Days Inn off exit 36.

[CHARtoSF]

You are so right IMHO. If I were going to this event, I would want to park my car and do everything I wanted to do and not get back in my car until I was ready to leave. Charlotte has (by far) more to offer and do within close proximity (walking distance) to the arena than Greensboro has. There are lots and lots of restaurants and bars within walking distance to the arena, and when EpiCentre is completely open you will also have the option of a bowling alley and movie theater, even if they are not mega complexes the option is still there, plus additional retail, restaurants and bars. There's also the option to jump on the light rail line, which is right next to the arena, and go to a number of places south of uptown. This option will only become greater in the coming years. Plus you can count the existing museums with three more to be added soon, and the NHOF. All of this within walking distance, not to mention things I forgot.

For me, the overall experience would matter the most. I think if you were to do a survey of people who have gone to this tournaments both in Greensboro and Charlotte, you would have far more wanting to go back to Charlotte.

[swh1972]

General Public Tickets haven't been available for years. Most fans attending are of the "fat cat" alumni variety. These people generally aren't the ones staying in a Days Inn off exit 36.

If this is the primary driver for wanting a larger venue - to keep boosters happy - than that is pretty sad.

[monsoon]

Maybe so. And I will bet they won't come at all if there isn't a place for them to sit in the arena. That is the real issue here. Not if there is a fuel pizza near the place.

[1979Heel]

If this is the primary driver for wanting a larger venue - to keep boosters happy - than that is pretty sad.

That's the whole purpose of the tournament-to woo the rich alums. The television contracts add national exposure not only for the schools but also for the host city (would that it were always Charlotte.) But Greensboro will host many ACC tournaments and they do a pretty good job of that. I am looking forward to the post-tournament reviews of Charlotte's hosting ability. And yes, the lack of seats hurts which is why so many ACC Tournaments are going to the Georgia Dome in Atlanta.

Edited March 13, 2008 by 1979Heel

[swh1972]

^Fuel Pizza comment...very good!

Can anyone explain how the ticket situation works for the tournament? Do you have to buy tickets for the entire week, or do you only buy them for certain games?

[1979Heel]

^Fuel Pizza comment...very good!

Can anyone explain how the ticket situation works for the tournament? Do you have to buy tickets for the entire week, or do you only buy them for certain games?

I think it's for the whole week, but severable so that they can be given away or sold if your team loses early.

But to get on a list in order to be able to buy tickets, you have to be a big, long-time donor to your school. Some are so wealthy that they they give to other schools that haven't a prayer of getting past the first round so that they can get in and be there when their team is in the final. At Carolina, if I'm not mistaken, it takes something on the order of $25-50000 a year for a decade or more to be positioned to buy tickets to the ACC Tournament.

Edited March 13, 2008 by 1979Heel

[Raintree21]

The article in the Observer today also said that if the city as a whole basically puts on a good show, that nothing has been decided about where the next few tourney's will be played.

Actually it already is I believe. They already have signed contracts with the host cities through 2015. The only deviation is that they could potentially not go to Greensboro in one of the final three years (2013-15) but that would then guarantee Greensboro the 2016 tournament.

[Charlotte_native]

It can, but it doesn't. As I noted above, there is relatively little to do in downtown on Saturday afternoon. My guess is that most people would end up driving to South Park, CM or something similar to find something to do. I am also guess than many people coming to the ACC will not choose to stay in the expensive hotels in downtown Charlotte.

The first part of this seems to always infiltrate so many threads. Obviously you don't like hanging out in downtown Charlotte, thousands of others seem to -- it is why the streets are often packed. There likely isn't what you like doing in downtown Charlotte, obviously there isn't, but I see droves of people on Saturday afternoons going to kid oriented stuff like Discovery Place, Imaginon, the Mint, and in the various squares and parks. I see them and know they are there. I see others, when the weather is good, packing the outdoor seating cafes and restaurants. In the evenings the party folks show up. I see people walking around taking pictures in front of the Disk at the Square and other places all the time -- we actually have tourists now.

When there are big events like this there are even more people. They all seem happy and plenty give reviews saying how enjoyable it was with so much to do. Guess is is all just opinion, some think the city is boring, others delight in everything it has to offer. Just like friends I have that think going to a mall is fun but I think it is a waste of time. Good that there is so much here so many can find what they like. Add in Epicentre, JOY!

I think this arguement always seems to center around the need to DO something. When I visit places I consider walking around, taking pictures, relaxing at a park, getting a glass of wine at a cafe, all 'things' to do -- we certainly do have all of that, plus the other attractions. Not sure if the ACC is the same but during the CIAA there were special events all over town in various parking lots, bars, and other venues. Not knocking G-boro, but I'd have to venture that if one were to list all the potential venues, restaurants, cafes, bars, and other 'things' within walking distance of their coliseum, there wouldn't be much comparison. Those that I know that are coming to this event are staying downtown for the exact reason the poster above noted - park the car for the weekend and forget about it!

As for the hotels, they are booked, people have been checking in since yesterday. Remember that most of the tickets go to rich alums, from the article i read today in some cases ONLY to rich alums, so those folks likely don't mind the prices and like the luxury. I know friends that work in the Westin and they've been booked out for this for months, same with the Marriot.

But Greensboro will host many ACC tournaments and they do a pretty good job of that.

They do quite a good job, my dad is a Tarheel alum and I've been with him a few times -- always fun.

Edited March 13, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[staffer]

^Fuel Pizza comment...very good!

Can anyone explain how the ticket situation works for the tournament? Do you have to buy tickets for the entire week, or do you only buy them for certain games?

you sell your children

[Neo]

I think this arguement always seems to center around the need to DO something.

I agree whole heartedly. When I lived in Chicago I honestly never did much of anything besides just hanging out, walking around, taking pictures, people watching or going to a nice restaurant. There are obviously things to do in Chicago for people of all walks of life. If I absolutely HAD to tell you what you could do in Chicago on any given night I honestly couldn't because it is up to that person to find out what their likes and dislikes are and then to just see what's happening. You can't expect to walk around and stumble upon something extremely exciting (I've never really found this to be the case) unless your joy comes from people watching, taking in the views, etc.

With any event, the ACC included, the surroundings matter as much and likely much more than the venue IMO. My wife and I always find something to do downtown, regardless of the time or day, but we're obviously into something different than the next person may be into. Everyone is going to have something negative to say about every city on the planet for various reasons. You could put a die hard suburbanite in the middle of NYC and they could be absolutely miserable, but you can't blame it on the city. I believe folks will truly live up having so many amenities close to the arena. Restaurants, people watching, parks, art or just walking around. In the event they have trouble occupying their time I'm certain they could take the LRT and find SOMETHING to do in this place we call a "city."

[jednc]

The first part of this seems to always infiltrate so many threads. Obviously you don't like hanging out in downtown Charlotte, thousands of others seem to -- it is why the streets are often packed. There likely isn't what you like doing in downtown Charlotte, obviously there isn't, but I see droves of people on Saturday afternoons going to kid oriented stuff like Discovery Place, Imaginon, the Mint, and in the various squares and parks. I see them and know they are there. I see others, when the weather is good, packing the outdoor seating cafes and restaurants. In the evenings the party folks show up. I see people walking around taking pictures in front of the Disk at the Square and other places all the time -- we actually have tourists now.

When there are big events like this there are even more people. They all seem happy and plenty give reviews saying how enjoyable it was with so much to do. Guess is is all just opinion, some think the city is boring, others delight in everything it has to offer. Just like friends I have that think going to a mall is fun but I think it is a waste of time. Good that there is so much here so many can find what they like. Add in Epicentre, JOY!

I think this arguement always seems to center around the need to DO something. When I visit places I consider walking around, taking pictures, relaxing at a park, getting a glass of wine at a cafe, all 'things' to do -- we certainly do have all of that, plus the other attractions. Not sure if the ACC is the same but during the CIAA there were special events all over town in various parking lots, bars, and other venues. Not knocking G-boro, but I'd have to venture that if one were to list all the potential venues, restaurants, cafes, bars, and other 'things' within walking distance of their coliseum, there wouldn't be much comparison. Those that I know that are coming to this event are staying downtown for the exact reason the poster above noted - park the car for the weekend and forget about it!

As for the hotels, they are booked, people have been checking in since yesterday. Remember that most of the tickets go to rich alums, from the article i read today in some cases ONLY to rich alums, so those folks likely don't mind the prices and like the luxury. I know friends that work in the Westin and they've been booked out for this for months, same with the Marriot.

I couldn't agree more. This entire conversation is really about someone who didn't want the arena in the first place and is trying to take an opportunity to point out they were right. We didn't build this arena for the ACC. The fact they are here anyway is merely icing. Very profitable icing.

And, clearly anyone who doesn't think the people in town for the tourney "likely" wouldn't want to stay uptown in an expensive hotel doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. It's pretty evident there are many people packed into the uptown hotels.

I hope the ACC tourney returns to Charlotte often. I hope Greensboro gets a new resident who seemingly prefers that city to ours. I think we all win.

[monsoon]

I couldn't agree more. This entire conversation is really about someone who didn't want the arena in the first place and is trying to take an opportunity to point out they were right. We didn't build this arena for the ACC. The fact they are here anyway is merely icing. Very profitable icing.

And, clearly anyone who doesn't think the people in town for the tourney "likely" wouldn't want to stay uptown in an expensive hotel doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. It's pretty evident there are many people packed into the uptown hotels.

I hope the ACC tourney returns to Charlotte often. I hope Greensboro gets a new resident who seemingly prefers that city to ours. I think we all win.

First of all, the ACC was here before the Arena. Second, my comments on the hotel were in response to people who claimed that people would not want to go to Greensboro because it did not have has many hotels as Charlotte. Geez. And as far as having an idea of what they are talking about, if you would take the time to read these things in context you will see that I do try to have a logical point. Instead of attacking me for having ulterior motives why don't you actually address what I posted, which you have yet to do. Of course there are differing opinions here on the matter and while mine differs from others, I don't think I have attacked anyone for their opinion.

The bottom line I simply reported what was in the press and offered my opinion on it. If I have gotten any of those facts wrong you are more than free to point that out and I will correct it.

The first part of this seems to always infiltrate so many threads. .

Well... I would invite you to read above to see that I did not bring it up, but I offered my opinion of what I thought these amenities would mean to the ACC when someone else did. I always say the proof is in the pudding. If the "attractions" in Charlotte are so superior to that over what is in Greensboro, I assume the ACC would not be leaving. Of course they are moving, so I think that pretty much sums of the importance of this item. It's the seats.

[Raintree21]

Not sure if the ACC is the same but during the CIAA there were special events all over town in various parking lots, bars, and other venues.

Not the same type of events but there are several planned. I think the CIAA events were more lively and entertaining.

Thursday, March 13, 2008

5:00 - 5:30 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

5:30 - 6:00 p.m. Dick Vitale Appearance (Alltel Booth)

6:00 - 6:45 p.m. Chrysler Jeep Lay-Up Contest

6:30 - 7:00 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

Friday, March 14, 2008

10:00 - 10:30 a.m. Food Lion Cooking Show (with Al Wood)

10:30 - 11:30 a.m. Chrysler Jeep Lay-Up Contest

11:30 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show (w/ Rodney Monroe)

5:00 - 5:30 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

5:30 - 6:30 p.m. Basketball Skills Clinic with Dell Curry* & Muggsy Bogues*

6:30 - 7:00 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

6:30 - 7:00 p.m. Chrysler Jeep Lay-Up Contest

Saturday, March 15, 2008

11:00 - 11:30 a.m. Food Lion Cooking Show (w/ Dell Curry)

12:00 - 1:00 p.m. ACC Legends Autograph Session

1:00 - 1:30 p.m. Chrysler Jeep Lay-Up Contest**

1:30 - 3:45 p.m. Semifinal Game #1

3:30 - 4:00 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

3:45 - 4:00 p.m. Semifinal Game #1 Press Conference

Sunday, March 16, 2008

11:00 - 11:30 a.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

11:30 a.m. - 12:30 p.m. Basketball Skills Clinic with Al Wood* & Rodney Monroe*

12:30 - 1:00 p.m. Chrysler Jeep Lay Up Contest

12:30 - 1:00 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

[Charlotte_native]

Well... I would invite you to read above to see that I did not bring it up, but I offered my opinion of what I thought these amenities would mean to the ACC when someone else did. I always say the proof is in the pudding. If the "attractions" in Charlotte are so superior to that over what is in Greensboro, I assume the ACC would not be leaving. Of course they are moving, so I think that pretty much sums of the importance of this item. It's the seats.

I reread the article, they definitely bring up the seats as a reason for debate between Charlotte and Greensboro, but more importantly it seems they are just trying to move it around so no one gets the tournament all the time.

To quote: '...Charlotte's tournament chances have been further limited by the ACC's philosophy of moving the tournament around its geographical 'footprint'. It now stretches from Massachusetts to Miami.'

The seat issue is prevalent though and they simply explain that there is such demand from the schools and alums that all extra tickets / seats are important.

So this really isn't a GSO or CLT arguement with the ACC as much as them keeping it from just being played in one place.

ACC commissioner John Swofford states in the article that the tournament will be primarily in North Carolina, with Atlanta in the mix a couple of times, and that 'Whether that be Greensboro with a mix of Charlotte, or whatever it might be'.

[Charlotte_native]

Can anyone explain how the ticket situation works for the tournament? Do you have to buy tickets for the entire week, or do you only buy them for certain games?

You don't buy...to quote the article: 'The ACC hasn't put tournament tickets up for public sale since 1966, with all seats going to top donors of the various athletic programs.'

That would certainly make each seat awfully important -- when you have fewer at one venue over another, obviously someone that is a 'top donor' will be left out!

I don't mean to imply that the tournament heads will make a decision to move to CHarlotte more often because of the stuff to do downtown, just that if enough people really enjoy it here, they would certainly hear about it. The CIAA commissioner Leon Kerry said specifically that they chose to remain because of '...the arena's uptown location and surrounding amenities...'

[tozmervo]

Not the same type of events but there are several planned. I think the CIAA events were more lively and entertaining.

Saturday, March 15, 2008

11:00 - 11:30 a.m. Food Lion Cooking Show (w/ Dell Curry)

12:00 - 1:00 p.m. ACC Legends Autograph Session

1:00 - 1:30 p.m. Chrysler Jeep Lay-Up Contest**

1:30 - 3:45 p.m. Semifinal Game #1

3:30 - 4:00 p.m. Food Lion Cooking Show

3:45 - 4:00 p.m. Semifinal Game #1 Press Conference

Its worth pointing out that St Patrick's Day celebrations (including the parade) are also being held on Saturday. Good timing on the ACC's part.

[HopHead]

From the WCNC web site there were some quite positive things to say about Bobcats Arena and its location versus that of the old Charlotte Coliseum for the ACC Tourney:

[ChiefJoJo]

The ACCT has received some rave reviews in the local media.

Cheryl Raper likes the convenience. "At the old site, you had to get into a car and drive," she said. "It's nice. You can walk around the streets. Restaurants, hotels, everything is very convenient."

Clearly, it's superior to Greensboro in every way, except capacity, but I'm sure that the ACC will get good feedback on the overall experience of the venue and other events in the city. I do think the ACC will always try to move it around between Tampa, ATL, Charlotte, GSO, DC, and maybe even Boston. It's pretty timely that the St Patty's day events coincide with the ACCT. Lot's to do Uptown.