SREE Springhill Suites Hotel and Center City Green

[Windsurfer]

That still doesn't justify why it is where it is. Why not move this a block or two away from the rail line? Why not put it in the other pork-chop site so it still supports the arena but allows for better development along the light rail? Why not put it a block or two off in one of the many surface lots? Why not place it elsewhere?

Isn't the first level supposed to be a market and bike commuter area?

[monsoon]

....

Absolutely agree. If this does its job, then we should see what, 4 or 5 surface lots be no longer needed. ...

It's a nice thought, but not one that exists in reality. I have never seen the demand for parking go down unless an area is in its death throes.

[Andyc545]

Isn't the first level supposed to be a market and bike commuter area?

yes....

What does that have to do with the parking deck though? That could have been created without the parking deck. It also could have legitimately been relocated to any of the surface lots within a 4 block radius, including the other other site that borders the arena. I admit this is getting off topic as this project has already began and is about half way in construction, so my statements are being "lived in the past".

[Windsurfer]

yes....

What does that have to do with the parking deck though?

It has to do with easing the idea that the lot around the rail will just be another big dead zone. It won't be after all.

[Andyc545]

It has to do with easing the idea that the lot around the rail will just be another big dead zone. It won't be after all.

No, I don't think it will be another dead zone. I think it could have been used wiser though.

[AuLukey]

No, I don't think it will be another dead zone. I think it could have been used wiser though.

And hopefully once BoA adds the condo portion (in whatever form/purpose that may show up as) we should have more retail/activity on that lot as well. Whenever they finally get around to it at least.

[Norm2]

I am sure that the parking deck might likely be open to the public for arena events.....for a price of course.

[InitialD]

I am sure that the parking deck might likely be open to the public for arena events.....for a price of course.

So is the parking deck a BofA deck or will it be run more like 7th St. Station? When I go uptown on Sun. I usually drive because they don't run the bus by my house on Sundays. Unless there is a game, 7th St. Station is free to park.

Also, don't forget that we will (hopefully) be loosing a lot of surface parking in the coming years due to the 1st ward developments.

[monsoon]

....

Also, don't forget that we will (hopefully) be loosing a lot of surface parking in the coming years due to the 1st ward developments.

I am not sure why this is justification for this deck. It's been repeated several times.

[southslider]

So long as the square footage of active uses is growing faster than parking, Uptown can keep adding both.

[monsoon]

So long as the square footage of active uses is growing faster than parking, Uptown can keep adding both.

Then by your definition this project fails.

[queensguy06]

So long as the square footage of active uses is growing faster than parking, Uptown can keep adding both.

I by no means think that Uptown does not need another parking deck (was that a double negative?). My primary complaint is the location of the deck. That stretch of the light rail is bounded by three garages on one side, and this one on the other. Even without the light rail, it seems a bit excessive to lump all of these together when A) Uptown is no that big to begin with and B) there are plenty of other places to put the garage.

And another point, I don't see BoA building ANYTHING where the condos were to go anytime soon.

[uptownliving]

Then by your definition this project fails.

No it doesn't. The whole reason this deck is being built is to supply reserved parking for the 30 story office tower that BofA is building. So when you take into consideration the new tower...then the worker to parking ratio is going to decrease....even with this new parking deck.

I agree that this area has a very high concentration of parking decks...but that can be mitigated by putting in street level retail which this deck is doing.

I havn't seen many posts on here saying that Seventh Street Station should be torn down....and it is right at the LRT station.

[Andyc545]

I havn't seen many posts on here saying that Seventh Street Station should be torn down....and it is right at the LRT station.

The difference is that 7th St Station was already there. This BofA parking deck is being built next to a light rail station that's already existed.

[southslider]

Technically between stations, and halfway no less. But I understand the point.

However, I think this is partly a trade-off of using exclusive right-of-way, especially former freight railroad right-of-way, since such corridors risk lacking street presence, defensible space, and/or significant foot traffic.

7th Street station is ironically an example of where light rail took the place of a street, which could explain why that deck has an active ground floor compared to BofA's deck one block south, which is also pre-LYNX and opposite the tracks from this newest deck.

And it doesn't even have to be a parking deck. Look at how the Arena or Epicenter face the LYNX verses Trade Street. Again, I think it's a consequence of utilizing exclusive right-of-way. Though there are obviously side paths along LYNX, I think retail will continue to gravitate to actual streets.

Though seeking street presence, sidewalk storefronts also avoid too intimidating of vehicular traffic. This added qualifier best explains future retail going on side streets at the Scaleybark station, plus future BLE stations within the middle of North Tryon. This is not too different from how the Metropolitan puts street walls on all sides, but its actual storefronts are on side streets (though I don't think Kings Drive is all that intimidating).

[monsoon]

....

I havn't seen many posts on here saying that Seventh Street Station should be torn down....and it is right at the LRT station.

Actually there is a post about it above. I am not advocating tearing down any parking decks at the moment. I've said we don't want to keep building them.

-----------

Here is another example of why building for the automobile begets more automobiles and kills transit efforts.

In this photo from the 1930s guess how they fixed this auto congestion problem? Hint, it wasn't by getting people to ride the subway. Guess which mode of transportation exists there today, and which one is a memory? Hint, there are a lot more roads there now.

They don't know what they were losing at the time. Charlotte, for all it's wealth, can't even dream of building a subway. Would be great if Lynx did operate underground while in downtown. It could run a lot faster and people would have shelter from the elements. The next time that BofA or someone else blows in here asking for more parking decks, which are revenue generators, lets ask them to build a streetcar line or something first.

[Guest]

The next time that BofA or someone else blows in here asking for more parking decks, which are revenue generators, lets ask them to build a streetcar line or something first.

I actually have to agree with you on this matter. The 50 million + being spent on this project could have easily bought 1 maybe 2 miles of streetcar line.

[uptownliving]

I think it is very laudable idea to suggest that a 30 story office tower that will one day hopefully be filled with 1000s of office workers doesnt need any dedicated parking. However we live in a community where 90% of the population doesn't use mass transit. So if this tower were built without decidated parking then it would be highly unlikely it would be able to lease up. It would be at a competitive disadvantage if it didnt have any available parking.

I think the best way to get rid of...or put a cap on parking downtown is to make it economically undesirable. Build out the transit system so that more and more people choose to ride mass transit and the market for parking will top out. Right now there is still a very large desire and pool of people and businesses willing to pay for parking,...that is why these decks get built.

[49er]

So what's the story behind the pics, Monsoon? I want to hear the rest, of the story

[monsoon]

So what's the story behind the pics, Monsoon? I want to hear the rest, of the story

The photos were taken in Rochester, NY. That subway was built in the 1920s and opened in 1928. It was built to take train traffic off the streets they used some of the canal ROW that was associated with the Erie Canal which was being shutdown. (considered an eyesore at the beginning of the 20th century)

The subway reached it's peak passenger load during the WWII years because it carried a lot of workers to plants building stuff for the war effort. In the 1950s the city council voted to close the subway, despite its popularity choosing instead to build a freeway in it's place. I am not sure why they did this but I suspect that it was a caving in to business interests since the city council made these decisions in secret. Sounds familiar doesn't it.

Sometime in the 70s they covered up most the remaining portions, so today you have to be an urban explorer to find remains of it. Rochester today looks much like Charlotte from the roads perspective. That is an inner loop freeway and a number of suburban freeways feeding it. Same results too.

[atlrvr]

I think the best way to get rid of...or put a cap on parking downtown is to make it economically undesirable. Build out the transit system so that more and more people choose to ride mass transit and the market for parking will top out. Right now there is still a very large desire and pool of people and businesses willing to pay for parking,...that is why these decks get built.

Or tax parking spaces (or maybe just surface parking spaces) at a rate of $0.25/day per space. This would drive up the cost of parking, and likely induce the most marginally located lots to be sold for development purposes. Assuming their are about 40,000 parking spaces that would work out to close to $4M in revenue per year....dedicate it to alternative tranportation solutions (streetcar, sidewalks, bike lanes, etc.)

All that said, now that I work downtown for a larger firm that has a diverse employee base, I constantly here how people wouldn't mind if we moved to SP or Ballantyne where there is free parking.....several from people who live in South Charlotte and South Carolina and take the LRT.

All the good intentions in the world don't mean much unless we have effective land use regulations. If we make it so expensive for people to work downtown, then they simply won't, and there is no confines to how much office, retail, etc can be built in the burbs.

Let's face it, the age of the car is here to stay, and the best Charlotte can realistically hope for is that the transit system is built out to the point where it is a viable alternative.

As long as we are increasing human uses (jobs, residents, etc) faster than we are building 1:1 parking, we are in the right direction. I'm ok with decks, as long as they have good urban design, and are replacing surface lots (not historic structures). Distance from a transit station is irrelevant, as long as the total buildout of that block is at a high-enough density to support transit ridership.

[InitialD]

You're absolutely right. I'm very pro-transit, and I think that in order for the city to be able to survive the coming post-oil era, we have to build a compete transit system now, no matter the cost.

I also understand that, as a temporary solution, we have to have parking available uptown. I don't want uptown restaurants and businesses, or the Bobcats or Checkers to miss out on patrons because they felt there wasn't any parking available. First ward will be loosing a lot of surface lots in the coming years, including several blocks of surface lots north of 7th and 8th street, many of which I see filled on game nights. All these people will have to find somewhere else to park - hey, at least now they will be directly adjacent to the arena.

I see parking decks as temporary structures - it won't be too hard to implode them and building something new there once we reach the post-car era in a decade or two. In the meantime, they are a necessary evil.

[monsoon]

It's a bad plan. The local transit supporters will not be able to justify the money it will take to build additional lines if there is not a real demonstrative need for it. The reason that so many cities in this country build just one transit line, and never build their expansion plans, is because once the first one is built, the biggest incentive for building one is gone. That is bragging rights the city has light rail, or a metro, etc. Now that it is built, the next one is a lot more difficult to justify because any argument that can be made for doing an expansion will be immediately judged against the running system.

If we continue to say that downtown can only exist if we continue to make it reasonable to drive there, then all the arguments for spending billions to build more transit go out the window. 30 years from now we will still be talking about expanding this system. I know this argument falls on deaf ears but if you are interested in this subject, look at which systems got expansions and which ones didn't.

One of the best studies in the world is right on our doorsteps. Look at Marta and the DC Metro. Marta was never expanded (except for a run to the Airport) because Atlanta is easy to drive to and there is vast accommodation for the automobile. On the other hand, taking a car into DC is a frustrating and expensive exercise. Buildings there do not automatically get parking. The reason for comparing these systems is they were both built at the same time. for the same reasons, using the same basic technology. 3 decades have passed and the DC Metro is the 2nd busiest in the USA where as Marta carries just a fraction of the passengers. They continue to expand the Metro, while Marta languishes.

[Windsurfer]

Buildings there do not automatically get parking. The reason for comparing these systems is they were both built at the same time. for the same reasons, using the same basic technology. 3 decades have passed and the DC Metro is the 2nd busiest in the USA where as Marta carries just a fraction of the passengers. They continue to expand the Metro, while Marta languishes.

When you say "automatically get parking", I'd like to comment that when we built both our warehouses, one of which is in 3rd Ward (should say refurbished) the city REQUIRED us to show them a certain amount of parking available despite the fact that most of our employees either walk or ride the buses to work. Seems like the city ought to lay off the regs if a business downtown can demonstrate that its employees, or customers, use light rail or buses. Perhaps they do, but I don't know about it.

[uptownliving]

When you say "automatically get parking", I'd like to comment that when we built both our warehouses, one of which is in 3rd Ward (should say refurbished) the city REQUIRED us to show them a certain amount of parking available despite the fact that most of our employees either walk or ride the buses to work. Seems like the city ought to lay off the regs if a business downtown can demonstrate that its employees, or customers, use light rail or buses. Perhaps they do, but I don't know about it.

Most of downtown Charlotte is zoned UMUD which has ZERO parking requirements. Obviously your warehouses are not zoned UMUD...but the office tower that BofA is building is zoned UMUD and if BofA so chose this tower could legally be built with zero parking.