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DwntwnGeo

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Michigan has a TON of satelite airports MBS LAN FNT AZO MKG. From a logical standpoint it would make alot of sense to consolidate services say in a triangle sort of way Boost up FNT, and GRR, leave DTW as is, as alot of us already go there for economic reasons. The arguement that it would make GRR a more congested airport is a weak one, say you took the passenger traffic from Kzoo, Lansing, and Muskegon, consolidated them at Ford, you're still only looking at an airport that would have around 4million enplanements. The infrastructure would have to be modernized, but that's happening anyway. As it sits now GRR still looks like it has goats grazing at the end of the runway. You'd be talking about an Airport still much smaller than the major ones. The only airport that serves a big region outside of those is Traverse City which I believe handles more traffic than MBS or AZO anyway.

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I am quite surprised that this topic has drawn so much attention.

Our perspective is a little scud here in West Michigan driving one hour for a flight is common in the rest of the country. A large part of Chicago is between 45 and 60 minutes from O

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It may make sense to some to consolidate airports but other than Muskegon shutting down and maybe loosing some business to GRR I can't see AZO or LAN willing to "give up", if airlines were loosing money there they would cut flights or pull out which has happened. I believe Battle Creek and Benton Harbor both had passenger service not too long ago. ANd up noth Manistee and Pellston now have service both about an hour from TCV, that shows you that there will always be a demand for less driving and flying into smaller airports even if it costs more for the passenger.

What gets me is all the flights that GRR has lost in the past few years Vegas is one of the top desinations and after GRR finally landed nonstop on NWA the busiest airline @GRR, its gone, LAN still has a flight there on a lowcost carrier that GRR doesnt have, tthat said I think that they need to compete a little better. I cant say much more about this topic because I think it will never happen

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I'm often frustrated with the lack of non-stop flights from GRR to major cities. We're always connecting in DTW, CHI, ATL, MSP, etc.

This same issue is frequently sited as an issue when attracting major conventions to come to GR as well as recruiting corporations to locate in WMich...it takes a lot more time to get in and out of GRR with the extra layovers.

This added time adds to the cost of doing business here.

If consolidating will result in more flight destinations out of GRR, I'm all for it. But I doubt this will gain too much momentum. I admire Birgit for posing the issue.

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If you are going to have a regional airport, then what you really need is a regionial transportation system, made up of interurban rail, so those people not in GR can hop a train and get here. I would like to see this network not only for West Michigan, but for the country as a whole, with air/rail a continuous system with air providing the longer distance transport and the rail within the region. The rail line could then also serve the regional commuters and take pressure off the interstates.

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Yeah, because a 787 can land at Kzoo/Battle Creek Int'l Airport...

I think a hub would be a good thing. I mean, if you get on a flight at Kzoo, your going to have to stop in GR, Detroit, or Chicago anyway to transfer. So why not have an airport capable of handling larger planes to more destinations? Its never going to be a DTW type of airport, but it can be better than what is there now.

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You won't get the airport out of AZO unless NWA pulls out.

Right now, AZO is perfectly viable and I'm sure the scientists at Pfizer (which still has a huge R&D facility for Animal Health in Richland), Kellogg execs, football teams playing WMU, and any number of small businesses that travel frequently would go berserk if someone tried to kill their airport.

I will say this though: Flying from AZO costs a boatload of money. I've never once, ever, seen a flight from there that was cheaper than GRR or South Bend, Indiana (only 70 minutes from AZO).

I don't know enough about Muskegon (never even dreamed of flying out of there before).

You'll never get the airport out of Lansing either. Heck, the capitol is there.

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The airshow is defunct.

The only thing I know about Muskegon is the colossal Air Shows each year. Back in '93 or so when I frequented the air shows it was my understanding that the airport pretty much did small lear jets in and out and that was about it. That was over a decade ago (I feel old) so who knows how much has changed.
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If you are going to have a regional airport, then what you really need is a regionial transportation system, made up of interurban rail, so those people not in GR can hop a train and get here. I would like to see this network not only for West Michigan, but for the country as a whole, with air/rail a continuous system with air providing the longer distance transport and the rail within the region. The rail line could then also serve the regional commuters and take pressure off the interstates.
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I've heard people argue that high speed rail would make GR the perfect place to take air traffic out of congested airports like Detroit and Chicago. Get a train going 300+mph and you could have people connecting between the airports in 30-60 minutes. I realize the current rail system couldn't accommodate maglev trains like this, but it's an interesting thought. I recently read an article about how East Coasters are using Amtrak a lot more. Crowded airports mean long waits, and ultimately, a longer trip than some of Amtrak's lines.

Maybe rail could be another topic...but here is a site all you rail enthusiasts may enjoy.

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Where are there trains going 300mph?

I've ridden on the Ave, TGV I think something called "ICE" in Italy (but that was years ago).

They're fast, but I think they're closer to 300kph (150mph). Big difference.

I'd love to ride rail at 300mph...I imagine that's quite a rush!

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There are only 5-6 commercial flights daily in to and out of Muskegon (MKG) at this time: 2-3 on Midwest to/from Milwaukee, and 3 on Northwest to/from Detroit. All are prop planes, with either 19 or 33 seats. Some basic math and you discover that this is only 137-156 seats maximum per day, and that doesn't include a seat or two on each flight for a crew. This is barely more than some of the jets that fly into GRR. So thoretically, MKG is only reducing the number of flights at GRR by one or two per day, as compared with approximately 62 flights currently. It seems to me that there would be very little impact at GRR if MKG were to close, but that it would be quite negative for the city of Muskegon. Imagine trying to attract new businesses to Muskegon and having to tell them, "Sorry, our airport is closed, but there's one about an hour away you can fly into."

Kalamazoo (AZO) is significantly larger than MKG, with 19 flights per day currently, many of which are regional jets. I can see where some of these flights might move to GRR if AZO were to close, but I also think a fair number of people would drive to South Bend, Detroit, or Chicago instead. And again, I think the negative impacts on the city of Kalamazoo would be much greater than the positives for other cities.

Closing Lansing (LAN) would have very little impact on GRR. Almost all of the LAN traffic would go to Flint, which is closer than GRR, or to Detroit to avoid a connection. I wouldn't go as far as the LAN spokesperson who said, "I don't think anybody in Lansing wants to fly from Grand Rapids", but I doubt it would be much more than 5-10%.

The whole idea of trying to make Grand Rapids a "mini-hub" is quite ridiculous. There is obviously some demand for flights to/from places like Muskegon and Kalamazoo, otherwise there wouldn't be any. I don't see how forcing an extra 100 people per day to drive between Muskegon and Grand Rapids is beneficial to either city, just to get one more flight at GRR. In fact, I think it's a benefit for the region that someone doing business in Muskegon or Kalamazoo can fly directly into those cities without needing to drive another hour after landing. The real solution to building the number of flights at GRR is bringing in a new airline, reducing delays and cancellations, adding more direct flights, keeping fares competitive, and giving people a reason to come and visit Grand Rapids. Easier said than done, I know. However, the solution is not to close down other airports.

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... The real solution to building the number of flights at GRR is bringing in a new airline, reducing delays and cancellations, adding more direct flights, keeping fares competitive, and giving people a reason to come and visit Grand Rapids. Easier said than done, I know. However, the solution is not to close down other airports.
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I'd rather drive an hour than spend at least twice that long in layovers and connecting flights. I believe you can only fly directly to MKG from two airports: OHA/DTW? MKG recently had it's runway extended so I'm assuming that they have plans to bring in larger planes, but I don't know who they're hoping to attract.

Has there ever been talk of international flights to/from GRR? It would be nice to be able to visit family in the UK without needing to spend an entire day travelling in each direction.

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I'd rather drive an hour than spend at least twice that long in layovers and connecting flights. I believe you can only fly directly to MKG from two airports: OHA/DTW? MKG recently had it's runway extended so I'm assuming that they have plans to bring in larger planes, but I don't know who they're hoping to attract.

Has there ever been talk of international flights to/from GRR? It would be nice to be able to visit family in the UK without needing to spend an entire day travelling in each direction.

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Heck, it takes an entire day to fly almost anywhere in the continental US. 30-minute flight, three hour layover. 2-hour flight, another hour on the ground deplaning, collecting bags, and ground transport. Add the lead time on the front end, and you've got eight hours in.
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The Press had about as scathing of an article as they can have. Kudo's GR Press.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6

Decent info about the steps the airport has taken to attract carriers, NWA's preditory procedures, why lansing and flint can have low cost carriers, etc.

Bottom line, NWA and the Legacy's are horrible companies, and GRR has tried to attract carriers a little late in the game.

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The Press had about as scathing of an article as they can have. Kudo's GR Press.

<a href="http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6" target="_blank">http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6</a>

Decent info about the steps the airport has taken to attract carriers, NWA's preditory procedures, why lansing and flint can have low cost carriers, etc.

Bottom line, NWA and the Legacy's are horrible companies, and GRR has tried to attract carriers a little late in the game.

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