What would it take to get you to move to Uptown?

[Charlotte_native]

Not knowing everyone on this forum, I'd like to know how many people are living (or planning to live) uptown and married with a family? What are some of the things you do? Is it a good lifestyle? Some of the things like having a balcony, being within walking distance of restaurants and parks are all things that I'd look to forward to. However, I'm just curious how having a family impacts your life in uptown since you probably don't spend your weekends at Buckhead's. It's something that may not be in the too distant future for me.

[voyager12]

Single here and I don't plan on living Uptown but from what I can see it's only workable right now for affluent families that can afford multi-bedroom condos or one of the few single family homes in one of the wards. Add on to that the money needed to send kids to private school..since CMS is a curse word to many, it's a pretty rarified sliver. Maybe this will change in the future. Discovery Place, Blumenthal, and the upcoming cultural attractions like the new museums and parks do make Uptown more inviting to families.

[Charlotte_native]

Single here and I don't plan on living Uptown but from what I can see it's only workable right now for affluent families that can afford multi-bedroom condos or one of the few single family homes in one of the wards. Add on to that the money needed to send kids to private school..since CMS is a curse word to many, it's a pretty rarified sliver. Maybe this will change in the future. Discovery Place, Blumenthal, and the upcoming cultural attractions like the new museums and parks do make Uptown more inviting to families.

[redjeep77]

The b&b sounds like a good idea. I don't think that townhomes in the inner ring are out of the question, but I need to find one with some sort of a "yard" lol. Thanks for the suggestions

[Spartan]

Its not completely unaffordable if you only consider price. And probably compared to larger cities its a great deal. But I think there are certainly price per square foot advantages to living just outside center city. I don't know if $145k for a 526 sq ft loft is worth it. But I'll admit I'm not completely sold on the "loft" living concept either.

[ScottCLT]

It isn't a question for me of what it WOULD take but what it DID take. As a resident of Dilworth for almost 10 years, I watched center city change from a strictly (other than an insignificant amount of residential) commercial and office environment to an increasingly growing urban environment with a healthy mix of everything. Not all is here yet, but it is coming and I'm actually happy to have settled here to watch it all come about.

What it took to finally make the move:

--Tired of yard work at my house

--Ready to sell one of our two cars and not need both at all

--Ready to walk to most of what I need including work, groceries, nightlife (when I actually go out), visit friends

--a condo with a balcony that was actually large enough to spend time on, not just big enough for 2 bistro chairs and a plant.

--the right location and right type of building

--a pool, I've never lived anywhere with one

--enough activity in center city to feel that it is close to complete and lively at most all times and days

We basically took the dive after spending time with other friends that had moved here to the Ratcliffe once it was done. We fell in love with the ability to decide, last minute, to go eat or get a glass of wine and be an elevator ride away. If you stay out half the evening, fine, or just one drink, fine - you haven't made the commitment of driving from one place to another to get there. We inevitably see friends out as well and end up joining them or just chatting on the sidewalk. We've met a completely diverse group of people with respect to age, gender, race, sexuality, etc and we all hang out together. We go to plays now at Spirit Square -- we never did that before. We take extended walks when the weather is crappy hot.

Dilworth was great and I really miss Freedom Park being a walk away, and I miss some of the restaurants, but overall center city is FAR more lively. I loved Dilworth but it is quite family-oriented right now and just a bit dull for my current lifestyle. Not that we party at all, but just speaking of the overall activity and the interaction of neighbors.

Add to this 3rd Ward Park, the movies at Epicentre, etc, it is becoming the well rounded place we wanted.

[Charlotte_native]

It's all about walkability. I have gotten to the point where I hate driving for anything.

[Justadude]

Not knowing everyone on this forum, I'd like to know how many people are living (or planning to live) uptown and married with a family? What are some of the things you do? Is it a good lifestyle? Some of the things like having a balcony, being within walking distance of restaurants and parks are all things that I'd look to forward to. However, I'm just curious how having a family impacts your life in uptown since you probably don't spend your weekends at Buckhead's. It's something that may not be in the too distant future for me.

[voyager12]

I think a major boon to Uptown would be an increase in sidewalk dining and cafes in general. They act as great gathering spots for the type of interactions that define city life. Cities with thriving cores have places to kick back and enjoy. The few we have now always seem packed on nice days. Charlotte is relatively temperate year round to justify more.

[monsoon]

^We have a topic here about the design of streets that would make this possible, but unfortunately so many streets downtown are designed and continue to be designed that makes sidewalk dining very difficult. However note that where they have done a good job of this, you do see a lot of pedestrian activity, mostly this is Tryon just north of the BofA tower.

[mshook]

I'm hopeful that the restaurant at the base of the Ave. will have outdoor dining. What happened to the redevelopment plans for 5th st and refacing the Ivey's? That would have really helped create a much more pedestrian atmosphere. Also, we need more people to LIVE downtown. Once downtown becomes denser we will see a bigger demand therefore hopefully Supply will come. I wish Latta Pavilion would be cleaned up. It could be beautiful with Retail indoors and great European Cafe's outdoors. However, that side of Tryon doesn't have the Population....yet! Move downtown please!

[Charlotte_native]

I'm hopeful that the restaurant at the base of the Ave. will have outdoor dining. What happened to the redevelopment plans for 5th st and refacing the Ivey's? That would have really helped create a much more pedestrian atmosphere. Also, we need more people to LIVE downtown. Once downtown becomes denser we will see a bigger demand therefore hopefully Supply will come. I wish Latta Pavilion would be cleaned up. It could be beautiful with Retail indoors and great European Cafe's outdoors. However, that side of Tryon doesn't have the Population....yet! Move downtown please!

[mshook]

Well, I guess I agree too. I love Brevard Court as it is, but would love to see something nicer inside (latta arcade). And maybe something in the Court that would have a "draw" and maybe more flow from restaurant to restaruant. The two could be a "destination" on it's own.

FYI - I'm really looking forward to the restaruant that Furman has planned for the space below Trademark. It's a shame that the Courtside can't attract any tenants...

[voyager12]

Not to stray to far but Courtside looks so lonely to me. Out in left field surrounded by surface lots. No wonder they can't fill the retail space. It's depressing around there. Perhaps what I am envisioning simply does not fit with the highrise environment. Cafe society orginated in Europe and it seems to thrive best in this country based in historical cities with European roots: Charleston, Savannah, etc etc. Cinzano topped tables crammed along the sidewalk with cafe after cafe and surrounded by flowerboxes will not fly in our corporate core. As more residents move in perhaps there will be demand for more quirky neighborhood hangouts with outdoor options.

[Andyc545]

Not to stray to far but Courtside looks so lonely to me. Out in left field surrounded by surface lots. No wonder they can't fill the retail space. It's depressing around there. Perhaps what I am envisioning simply does not fit with the highrise environment. Cafe society orginated in Europe and it seems to thrive best in this country based in historical cities with European roots: Charleston, Savannah, etc etc. Cinzano topped tables crammed along the sidewalk with cafe after cafe and surrounded by flowerboxes will not fly in our corporate core. As more residents move in perhaps there will be demand for more quirky neighborhood hangouts with outdoor options.

[Charlotte_native]

Not to stray to far but Courtside looks so lonely to me. Out in left field surrounded by surface lots. No wonder they can't fill the retail space. It's depressing around there. Perhaps what I am envisioning simply does not fit with the highrise environment. Cafe society orginated in Europe and it seems to thrive best in this country based in historical cities with European roots: Charleston, Savannah, etc etc. Cinzano topped tables crammed along the sidewalk with cafe after cafe and surrounded by flowerboxes will not fly in our corporate core. As more residents move in perhaps there will be demand for more quirky neighborhood hangouts with outdoor options.

[mshook]

It's why I chose not to buy in there. I was just fearful that Levine would hold those parking lots forever.

[uptownJim]

It's why I chose not to buy in there. I was just fearful that Levine would hold those parking lots forever.

[uptownJim]

In all seriousness, staying on-topic -- what would it take?? Some thoughts from me (and I own a condo uptown already) -- I've lived with my girlfriend in her condo in southend, lived in NoDa and 4th Ward as well.

IF you are the type of person that *enjoys* not having to take care of a yard (nor doesn't mind not having one, either!) then that is the first premise. IF you are the type of person who must have a large yard for a dog, demands off-street parking, etc., then even the Fourth Ward won't be suitable for you.

Getting past that initial premise, IMHO as someone who's been there for the greater portion of a decade, while retail "soft goods" shops are VERY important, I think night/weekend hours for the extant retail are absolutely critical to satiate the needs and desires of those who already live uptown. Nothing was more frustrating for my girlfriend and I then to trek all the way to Dean and Deluca for lunch about eight blocks only to find them closed one Saturday (not any longer though!)

But second in my list is safety. Now, I'm a pretty burly guy in my thirties, wrestled varsity and played lacrosse in college, and I STILL won't be caught walking alone around 4th Ward at eleven o'clock at night! In fact, I on more than one occasion was with 2-3 men total and still almost got mugged by a fairly large group of roving ne'er-do-wells! This wasn't ten years ago, either, this was in the past six months! Too many young women I know moved uptown, whether bought or rented and did not make it a full year. I watched, in the past year alone, ten girls I am friends with leave their uptown condos. Why? Did not feel safe walking their dog at dusk ... wanted to be able to take a jog around the neighborhood at 7AM before work (imagine being a 23-yo girl jogging on N Tryon when they open the floodgates at the men's shelter??? I ran into one former girlfriend of mine sobbing in the building lobby because she had been harassed and had to virtually "run the gauntlet" to get past a throng of fifteen or more vagrants who were walking down the road).

Enough of that, but for any of you who don't believe what I write, just call Central Division CMPD and ask to sign up to do a ride-along in the uptown/David One district, and you'll see what I have seen on the ten or so I've witnessed.

That being said, I love it in the neighborhood and can't wait until a few more of these things shape up - and they will!

[Justadude]

But second in my list is safety. Now, I'm a pretty burly guy in my thirties, wrestled varsity and played lacrosse in college, and I STILL won't be caught walking alone around 4th Ward at eleven o'clock at night! In fact, I on more than one occasion was with 2-3 men total and still almost got mugged by a fairly large group of roving ne'er-do-wells! This wasn't ten years ago, either, this was in the past six months! Too many young women I know moved uptown, whether bought or rented and did not make it a full year. I watched, in the past year alone, ten girls I am friends with leave their uptown condos. Why? Did not feel safe walking their dog at dusk ... wanted to be able to take a jog around the neighborhood at 7AM before work (imagine being a 23-yo girl jogging on N Tryon when they open the floodgates at the men's shelter??? I ran into one former girlfriend of mine sobbing in the building lobby because she had been harassed and had to virtually "run the gauntlet" to get past a throng of fifteen or more vagrants who were walking down the road).

Enough of that, but for any of you who don't believe what I write, just call Central Division CMPD and ask to sign up to do a ride-along in the uptown/David One district, and you'll see what I have seen on the ten or so I've witnessed.

[dubone]

As for the discussion of connecting Courtside (and the new Enclave and Quarterside projects behind it) to the rest of the urban district, we do have the benefit of having the land directly across Caldwell in the hands of someone other than Levine. It is owned by LaPointe Chevy, which isn't exactly an active developer, but at least it isn't absorbed into Levine's vast land bank holdings. It is possible that the land values might sway LaPointe to sell, but it is hard to know who will act first in that section.

As for street life, I do notice that most new projects plan for street retail, and many of those have some area for street dining. We might be close to conquering the chicken-egg issue of urban retail, as we might finally be having enough retail to attract more of the residents to walk around, creating the pedestrian traffic for new businesses to get funded.

There is certainly some real crime in all parts of downtown, and not only because of mathematical realities -- more people, more crime. Because in this country there is a poverty-crime correlation, when you have a high density of homeless shelters, public housing, soup kitchens, and public services, you have a concentration of poverty (even if mixed in with general society), so you then have a higher crime rate. I think globally and across history, there is not a poverty-crime correlation (crime went down during Great Depression), but here and now, there is.

Beyond that real crime, there is also the perception of a lack of safety. I'm not sure of the specific near-mugging that took place, but it seems that some people feel that way even if they are talked to be undesireable people. Personally, I HATE it when I am approached by a stranger, especially at night, but in many cases the situations would not really have turned into a mugging (only the Pre-Cogs know). I know that the neighborhood associations are strong downtown and there is considerable pressure on the police representatives to improve safety (the policemen claim they find and arrest people, but the lack of DAs often leads to release with no charges). The will be installing high tech cameras to improve security in 4th Ward Park and at the Circle K, both of which are apparently hotspots.

You can read more about actual crime reports downtown here:

http://safety28202.com/

[voyager12]

I agree that perception is often more powerful than reality when it comes to urban crime and Charlotte is no different. Like any city there will be some crime and I am definitely more alert if I am alone in Uptown late at night. I never personally have had any problems. I wandered all over downtown Charleston at all hours and the worst I encountered were drunk bums. Although my apt in Charleston was robbed once. I slept right through it and awoke to a much less cluttered place and a busted door I outran a mugger in Florence, Italy when I got lost one night. The most common complaint I hear from people in 4th ward etc are near constant car break ins. A problem that is hard to stop in general. We get sprees in Dilworth quite often.

[uptownJim]

Where in 4th Ward are we talking about? I lived in the heart of the district for 2 years and never had a problem like what you describe above. By your description it sounds like the Tryon St. area around 10th St. or so (between the shelter and First Methodist, which offers meals to the homeless). I would not at all say that it is unsafe to walk down Poplar St. after dark.

[world44]

What would take me to move Uptown is the idea of not to have to utilize my car. The ability to pivot, within walking direction, to transportation, markets, retail, and educational institutions within the assurance of safety and beauty.

[hueion39]

What would take me to move Uptown is the idea of not to have to utilize my car. The ability to pivot, within walking direction, to transportation, markets, retail, and educational institutions within the assurance of safety and beauty.