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HBS (York) mixed-use project

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This may turn into a nice size building if it occupies the entire block. I have mixed feelings about the old shops being demolished. The tower will perhaps pump new life back into this block. Looks like the Glenwood/Hillsborough/Fayetteville corridor is continuing to become the backbone of downtown.

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I have mixed feelings on this one. Some of those old storefronts are not bad-looking really. (As opposed to the ones that the Hampton Inn will be taking.)

I just hope the current tenants there....who have been loyal to downtown all these years....are able to find suitable new digs nearby.

In addition, I'm betting this fancy new building will look kinda funny across the street from the "Hot Weiners" place. :camera:

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1. It will be sad to see those storefronts go. I wish there was a way to keep the storefronts and build up behind them, but I guess that's the cost of progress.

2. If the building takes up all or almost all of the block with 8-10 stories it will be a very large building. I assume it will need a parking deck?

3. I might prefer to see at least one portion with a condo tower rising higher, but still, amen to someone wanting to build downtown.

4. Hillsborough St. is starting to remind me of Trade St. in Charlotte.

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Well I have always been underwhelmed by the Yorks rock star status around here. The N&O still lauds Cameron Village as visionary as it ignores the first blood it drew in killing downtown. So while I really think Hillsborough St is finally gettings its overdue attention, I am a bit tired of seeing occupied storefronts being proposed for demolition when there are plenty of parking lots I would rather see bite the dust. Same situation with the buildings at the NW corner of Jones and West. Don't get me wrong, Hillsborough should and is becoming a great street, maybe ultimately the most vibrant in the City a decade or two from now, but losing the old character, low scale and gritty as it may be, is irreplacable.....On a storefront note, the next block east looks like it is being nicley refurbished with a dumpster sitting outside....

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While these one-story 1930s storefronts on Hillsborough are cute, I don't find them particularly distinctive. Hillsborough street this close to downtown and this close to the future train station, needs to be mixed-use and very dense, and little one-story buildings like this just won't really cut it. I'm far more concerned about finding new locations for the businesses in these buildings than preserving the buildings themselves.

I'm glad to see that the developers haven't already decided to go 100% condo here. Again, with a location this close to maybe future transit, offices might be a better fit. I hope that they decide to go with fewer parking spaces than we usually see downtown, but the fact that a transit line probably won't happen here for a decade or more makes that very unlikely.

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I tend to agree with orulz... this needs to be a location with density (will be soon), and those storefronts aren't particularly historically significant as far as I am aware. Also, Reynolds loss could be York's gain... recall that Reynolds decided to remove the office component of their project to the tune of 160k sf earlier this spring. I would imagine that made this project all the more viable. I like that they are looking at office and residential, presumably with retail on the ground floor.

This fulfills what we already knew... with Campbell, Reynolds Tower, the Hampton/Aloft/condo project, TME/Blvd Centro, and possibly Reynolds II, Hillsborough St is going to fill in from the Capitol to Glenwood South, eventually making a continuously developed (zig-zag) corridor from Peace/Glenwood all the way to the Progress Energy Center in the south end of Fayetteville St. :thumbsup:

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I call BS.

HBS has been trying to do this deal for at least a couple of years. Notice that they still don't have tenants, aren't sure what the mix is going to be or even what uses are going to be included, and the whole deal is still contingent on convincing Montgomery to sell.

Mr. Hagel should have headlined his article "Local developer might build mid-rise. Must buy property, determine feasibility, recruit tenants, convince city, secure financing before go-ahead".

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Does anyone know how much land the Mayor or his partners own around downtown?

And doesn't his son work for one of the downtown developers as well?

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I'm assuming this would wipe out Flex, one of the most unique gay dive bars in NC. I hope they help them find a new space, as well, and not just the other businesses. I would really hate to see Raleigh's gay community lose out on a very popular hang-out spot. Does anybody know anymore about what might happen to Flex?

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While these one-story 1930s storefronts on Hillsborough are cute, I don't find them particularly distinctive. Hillsborough street this close to downtown and this close to the future train station, needs to be mixed-use and very dense, and little one-story buildings like this just won't really cut it. I'm far more concerned about finding new locations for the businesses in these buildings than preserving the buildings themselves.

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I must disagree. Smaller, one to three story brick storefront-type personifies Raleigh, in my opinion. This town has a propensity to green light the demolition of serviceable older buildings first and rebuild crap in their place while brownfield lots/abandoned warehouse space/surface parking remain (if it's not busy approving ridiculously out-of-context skyscrapers well outside the city core situated in floodplains of larger stream systems that already have flood problems). If they were to look two blocks to the south, there is surface parking (adjacent to "Buckhead Saloon" and across the street) on Harget and West/Harington the developer might be able to pry away from the existing ownership without buldozing nice storefront real estate in a place where more foot traffic is just what the doctor ordered (replete with nice willow oak shade, the unofficial city tree).

I have always really liked that row of buildings, and thought that they would be a great asset in adding to the pedestrian environment, helping to link downtown with the glenwood area. It's a shame that they'll be torn down for what I can only assume will be an architecturally uninspired, pedestrian unfriendly McBuilding made from the chintziest materials the developer can get his hands on.

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If these existing storefronts were part of a 4 or 5 story building with offices and/or residences then I feel they should not be bulldozed. But they're not, and that's probably why they are mostly empty. Unfortunately, there are not enough residences to support these one-story, limited-parking shops. As others have mentioned, this area specifically needs density due to its proximity to a future transit station; the fact that there are other empty lots nearby is not really relevant as the owner/developers are obviously focusing on the Hillsborough St. address. Hopefully those other lots/warehouses will each have their own development one day, but I don't feel too bad about these storefronts being torn down.

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You need residential density downtown in order for there to be a high volume of foot traffic constantly active to support downtown retail. Sacrifices have to be made as available land isn't easy to come by.

Hate what I just wrote but you know it's true.

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You need residential density downtown in order for there to be a high volume of foot traffic constantly active to support downtown retail. Sacrifices have to be made as available land isn't easy to come by.

Hate what I just wrote but you know it's true.

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If these existing storefronts were part of a 4 or 5 story building with offices and/or residences then I feel they should not be bulldozed. But they're not, and that's probably why they are mostly empty. Unfortunately, there are not enough residences to support these one-story, limited-parking shops. As others have mentioned, this area specifically needs density due to its proximity to a future transit station; the fact that there are other empty lots nearby is not really relevant as the owner/developers are obviously focusing on the Hillsborough St. address. Hopefully those other lots/warehouses will each have their own development one day, but I don't feel too bad about these storefronts being torn down.

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You need residential density downtown in order for there to be a high volume of foot traffic constantly active to support downtown retail.

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I personally hope something happens here; even something much smaller than 8-10 stories would be an improvement. If this block had lighting and people at night, it would make the walk from the downtown core to Glenwood South much more interesting and safe. Right now it's a big dead and dark spot that feels potentially dangerous at night.

The existing businesses don't really benefit from the potential foot traffic of the location; violin shops and law firms aren't businesses you wander into just because you were passing by. :)

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I personally hope something happens here; even something much smaller than 8-10 stories would be an improvement. If this block had lighting and people at night, it would make the walk from the downtown core to Glenwood South much more interesting and safe. Right now it's a big dead and dark spot that feels potentially dangerous at night.

The existing businesses don't really benefit from the potential foot traffic of the location; violin shops and law firms aren't businesses you wander into just because you were passing by. :)

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I say you have to bring this into perspective.

All of these buildings are pretty much just minimally decorated and utilitarian brick boxes, three of which have glass storefronts:

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They were built in 1935, 1941, 1950, and 1954.

I'm all for preservation, when it makes sense. The Garland-Jones building is a superb little structure, pretty much the sole example of a modernist commercial building downtown, and it has excellent urban form. Tearing that down is a travesty. The buildings along Wilmington in front of the Edison are much older - some of the earliest masonry structures in town - and I don't want to see them torn down either.

I feel that this block of one-story structures, facing Hillsborough street is in a completely different class. I think it would be a shame to say that these 1-story structures shall stand for all eternity, when the market clamors for something with more uses, higher density, activity along Morgan Street, and TOD potential. In my opinion, these buildings are not distinctive; they are just somewhat old.

They seem to be solid buildings, and they probably are solid (like most load bearing masonry structures of the day) but truth is, they were probably built quickly and cheaply - and there are dozens of similar structures all over town (though their numbers are admittedly decreasing). They're kind of cute, and three of them do face the sidewalk, but I quite honestly don't see much potential there beyond just utilitarian masonry storefront buildings. Something with street level retail like 222, L, or Hue would not be any less appealing to the pedestrian.

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^^^

Agreed. I think its time for these buildings to give way for progress. From what I see there really isn't anything special about them. They don't exactly have any architectual details or significant history linked to them that I'm aware of.

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The problem with this block is it is kind of in the middle of a black hole. The train tracks to the west breaks up any potential building "flow". The sidewalk over the Hillsborough Street bridge is ok, but it goes to "Signs by Tommorow" and a parking lot. The sidewalk on the north side of the Morgan Street bridge is barely wide enough for two pedestrians side by side.

The "Innovations" building was torn down to make way for the new bridge, leaving a surface parking lot along the tracks, the interior of the block and on the Morgan Street side before outdoor equipment company (how many lawn mowers need to be taken to the Morgan/West intersection for repair?). The former VIP formal wear space on the SW Hillsborough/West corner has been empty for years. Marsh Woodwinds has already relocated to North Person -- maybe the violin maker can follow them?

The triangle lot to the north will never have anything vibrant to offer these storefronts.

The block to the east has a parking lot on Morgan, the Roast Grill house in the middle, and an unfriendly wall of nothing (for now) at Hillsborough/West.

With the hotel/condo block to the NE starting construction next year, this is as good a time as any to bring life to a block that is the linchpin between Glenwood South/Powerhouse Square and the start of the apporach to the Capitol at the east end of Hillsborough Street.

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