Can we bring back the downtown regional "mall" discussion?

[blueradon]

Well the land is about the same size as the city services - I'm guessing - or a little bit smaller. I'm not a fan of "veritcal malls" and I probably used some land that probably wouldn't be demolished or re-used for such things - so my rendering may be a little unrealistic. I just like making boxes and coloring them

Orange - Retail/Commercial

Red - Restaurant/Bar/Cafe/etc

Purple - Urban Grocery Store

Pink - Mixed Use (hotel/residential/ground retail)

Green - Residential

Yellow - Arena (duh)

Blue - Parking

[GRDadof3]

I found an ad for this project paging through an arch. magazine. Its a mixed use development proposed for downtown LA.

Why can't an urban mall include condos/apartments/housing/hotel etc? I think a mixed use urban mall would serve downtown much better than a high-end shopping mall would

<a href="http://www.tca-arch.com" target="_blank">http://www.tca-arch.com</a>

[jbr12]

I definitely wasn't implying a hi-rise. That rendering shows a 12-13 story building

Some of the work I've done with developers downtown proves that the market is still there for downtown condos, or atleast developers think it is. Take away the palm trees, shrink down the balconies to Michigan size and I see absolutely no reason why this couldnt work downtown GR. This example may not be the right size for a regional uppity mall, but the concept is whats important. Check out the street-side entrances, the nice roof top gardens and most importantly the Whole Foods (Meijer?)

[GRDadof3]

I definitely wasn't implying a hi-rise. That rendering shows a 12-13 story building

Some of the work I've done with developers downtown proves that the market is still there for downtown condos, or atleast developers think it is. Take away the palm trees, shrink down the balconies to Michigan size and I see absolutely no reason why this couldnt work downtown GR. This example may not be the right size for a regional uppity mall, but the concept is whats important. Check out the street-side entrances, the nice roof top gardens and most importantly the Whole Foods (Meijer?)

[blueradon]

You do have a good point there. Nobody else (not even Detroit I think?) has vertical malls with high scale stores. That would certainly give us the edge in the midwest if we had something like that

[metrogrkid]

As always, when even we "progressive" Grand Rapids folk decide to revisit someting that warrants revisiting like this subject, we go directly into "re-creating the wheel mode". It is amazing that some of the most brilliant minds of this sub-forum who participated in the Committee for the Planning of a World-Class Downtown (CPWCD - that was engaged as a joint effort of UP-GR and MBEI) seem to have completely forgotten to bring up METROPOLITAN CENTER (MC). This urban mixed-use development concept, that actually originated as a concept for a 52-floor mixed-use development for Dan DeVos's Market/Fulton lot, was revisited by the CPWCD group and scaled down to a 30-story version for what is now our favorite irritating grass lot at what really is the metropolitan center - Division and Fulton.

If GRDad, Joe Downtown and Rizzo would be so kind as to share with all the UP-GR members who joined this sub-forum since then their takes on the Metro Center concept, I would be greatly appreciative. It really did take into account Class-A office space, rental and condo housing, entertainment uses, a dedicated connection to the ITP/RAPID transit system and, of course, its 5-7 story atrium mall component at the building's base with 80-100 destination retailers (with Great Lakes-area branches currently only in Chicago and Detroit). If we're going to consider a world-class future for downtown retail/entertainment, please frame it up against something thoughtfully and intelligently conceptualized from those among us.

By the way, a development like Metro Center could easily also encompass the Area 4 and 5 lots behind VanAndel Arena (where two like developments are being considered), the parking lot adjacent to the building that houses Bistro Bella Vita, the triangular block next to that and bounded by Grandville and Market and many sites in North Downtown.

[GRDadof3]

I think that's an interesting thought metrogrkid, going back to the old City Center ramp site at Fulton & Division. If a development could be somehow incorporated into the JA site across the street, the combined footprint would be almost 70,000 square feet. That's big enough to slide two "anchors" (could be Whole Foods and Nordstrom, etc.) in plus 50 - 75 additional retailers, some entertainment attractions, etc..

- It would also be closer to "downtown" and Monroe Center than Market & Fulton

- It would spur a lot of redevelopment up and down Fulton and South Division

- It would anchor the East end of Monroe Center, which is badly needed to draw people up MC from the Pearl & Monroe area

In fact, if you positioned the building the right way on the JA site, it would be visible all the way from the Amway Grand.

[Avocado]

[metrogrkid]

I think that's an interesting thought metrogrkid, going back to the old City Center ramp site at Fulton & Division. If a development could be somehow incorporated into the JA site across the street, the combined footprint would be almost 70,000 square feet. That's big enough to slide two "anchors" (could be Whole Foods and Nordstrom, etc.) in plus 50 - 75 additional retailers, some entertainment attractions, etc..

- It would also be closer to "downtown" and Monroe Center than Market & Fulton

- It would spur a lot of redevelopment up and down Fulton and South Division

- It would anchor the East end of Monroe Center, which is badly needed to draw people up MC from the Pearl & Monroe area

In fact, if you positioned the building the right way on the JA site, it would be visible all the way from the Amway Grand.

[NorthCoast]

I think the Fulton/Division site is the best site discussed yet.

-It isn't confined by the river.

-It would be built upon two primarily vacant properties.

-The shape of parcels themselves are much more flexible in terms of design.

-It's located right across from GRPD (how much safer can you get downtown?)

-It is within close proximity to Van Andel, the Ionia bar scene, and JW/Amway

-There is potential for expansion

-It would be very closely integrated with the proposed streetcar and/or LTR

-A development of this nature would continue to aid in the rehabilitation of South Division

[metrogrkid]

I think the Fulton/Division site is the best site discussed yet.

-It isn't confined by the river.

-It would be built upon two primarily vacant properties.

-The shape of parcels themselves are much more flexible in terms of design.

-It's located right across from GRPD (how much safer can you get downtown?)

-It is within close proximity to Van Andel, the Ionia bar scene, and JW/Amway

-There is potential for expansion

-It would be very closely integrated with the proposed streetcar and/or LTR

-A development of this nature would continue to aid in the rehabilitation of South Division

[metrogrkid]

I went back and grabbed the old Metropolitan Center thread just for easy referencing . . . .

<a href="http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/FINAL-RE...p;hl=metrogrkid" target="_blank">http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/FINAL-RE...p;hl=metrogrkid </a>

[Prankster]

The only flaw that I see in the design is getting the historic commission to buy off on something that tall on their turf. Other than that, the idea has merit.

[GRDadof3]

I think the Fulton/Division site is the best site discussed yet.

-It isn't confined by the river.

-It would be built upon two primarily vacant properties.

-The shape of parcels themselves are much more flexible in terms of design.

-It's located right across from GRPD (how much safer can you get downtown?)

-It is within close proximity to Van Andel, the Ionia bar scene, and JW/Amway

-There is potential for expansion

-It would be very closely integrated with the proposed streetcar and/or LTR

-A development of this nature would continue to aid in the rehabilitation of South Division

[jbr12]

The only flaw that I see in the design is getting the historic commission to buy off on something that tall on their turf. Other than that, the idea has merit.

[GRDadof3]

They didn't have any problems with the proposed 240 Ionia project and that was a good 10-12 stories

[wingbert]

The Fulton & Division proposal is also 10 - 12 stories, I believe. I don't think the HPC and Heartside District care so much about height as materials used, ground-floor retail and finishes, etc..

I actually think Sam Cummings and RSC might like to get a shot of adrenaline with their proposal, as it seems to be struggling to find a "vision" that will work on paper.

[mifunboy]

I think a downtown mall would be great but the idea has come too late for a regular mall downtown. GR already has too many malls with more on the way.

Perhaps a closed in glass arcade for regular local shops would be a fit instead.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...ficial%26sa%3DN

[GRDadof3]

Hmmmmm... So you're thinking something like Westfield San Francisco Center perhaps?

"Westfield San Francisco Center is a vertical mall that leaves you feeling like you've walked in nine circles. The mall's unique architecture features five levels of stores with unusual spiral-shaped escalators. The sixth floor features Century Theatres and San Francisco State University. Atop the mall sits the Seattle-based Nordstrom department store, which features another five levels of upscale merchandise."

Read all about it here --> Westfield San Francisco Center

Grand Rapidize it, stick a Trader Joe's on the ground floor and you're on to something big...

[GRDadof3]

Imagine a "bookend" retail/entertainment complex at the end of this shot:

[GRDadof3]

Awesome!

tamias6 is on the case!

[GRDadof3]

Gee, I wonder if this sight would draw people up Monroe Center?!

[GRDadof3]

Here's another one (for you jbr12 )

[tamias6]

Here's a quick Mass study of my idea for an urban mall and Mix Use development for Fulton St. and Division Ave. My idea consists of a 400,000-600,000 sq. ft. urban shopping mall, plus two residential towers. Parking would be below grade to allow retail to be all the way down to ground level to enhance street life. In addition, the mall would have indoor, climate controlled access to VanAndel Arena, hotels and Devos Place as it would be connected to the sky walk network. I'm planning on doing a more detail version. But while I'm still in the mass study stage and able to make easy changes, now would be a good time make this open for input.

[Allison Slater]

My only suggestion so far would be to add some sort of architectural flair to the section on the SE corner of Division and Fulton to act as a beacon to people at Pearl & Monroe and down Monroe Center. Something that will grab at people's eyes, cause them to think "what's that?" and walk down Monroe Center to see.