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Can we bring back the downtown regional "mall" discussion?

GRDadof3

By GRDadof3
in Grand Rapids

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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In order to attract the best, brightest and most educated to the metro area, you've got to provide amenities that these newcomers have come to expect in other metro areas. One of those things is high-end retail. Even if you look at Indianapolis, they have TWO malls with high-end retailers, Circle Center downtown with Nordstrom, and Fashion Mall at Keystone on the North side with Saks and Nordstrom.

It either gets built in the Northern suburbs of GR, or it goes downtown. Take your pick. :whistling:

BTW: if you guys look at the two malls I started the thread with, they both have windows to outside world, even on upper floors, as well as street-facing retail on the ground floors. :thumbsup:

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MJLO City

MJLO

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One thing to consider, Traffic. The amount of traffic generated by something of this scale that you all are refering to, would overwhelm Grand Rapids downtown streets. The corner of Fulton/Market/Monroe would become twice the cluster, it can be now. The streets are not in a place they can be widened, it would have to be very very well thought out if it can be engineered at all to handle the constant influx.

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blueradon Hamlet

blueradon

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This would be my take of a cool place to put a so-called "mall" downtown. Well after that whole ordeal with Mr. Faust (yeah don't yell at me for bringing him up lol) I think that chunk of land the city owns by the river would be the perfect spot.

My idea would to have a couple multi-story parking ramps along the corners of Finney and Bartlett or somewhere in that area. Market street itself from Cherry St to the railroad tracks would have stores on both sides of the street - give the term Market St a useful name.

Then - the lot by the river would be a village-style thing with a pedestrian road that goes up to the river - have some restaurants by the river - and THEN have a pedestrian bridge over the Grand River and have another set of shops along Front Ave with maybe a couple parking ramps over on that side as well (or not)

I always thought that would be the coolest place to put that land to use and make it river-friendly so to say

Oh and then that little triangle land in between market/finney/williams can have some sort of mini park thing or some type of "welcome" spot to know that you're entering into the mall

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francishsu Hamlet

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I think regional downtown mall, in the sense of an retail focus comparable in scale to Rivertown/Woodland/Orchard Park is the wrong way to go. There has to be a better regional attraction idea than a shopping mall. Four locations in a 5 mile radius each with 1 million + sq. ft in retail? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. What about something closer to Chicago Navy Pier or Seattle Pike Place. Something where there's stuff to do besides just shopping.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I think regional downtown mall, in the sense of an retail focus comparable in scale to Rivertown/Woodland/Orchard Park is the wrong way to go. There has to be a better regional attraction idea than a shopping mall. Four locations in a 5 mile radius each with 1 million + sq. ft in retail? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. What about something closer to Chicago Navy Pier or Seattle Pike Place. Something where there's stuff to do besides just shopping.
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GR Jackson Hamlet

GR Jackson

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I think regional downtown mall, in the sense of an retail focus comparable in scale to Rivertown/Woodland/Orchard Park is the wrong way to go. There has to be a better regional attraction idea than a shopping mall. Four locations in a 5 mile radius each with 1 million + sq. ft in retail? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. What about something closer to Chicago Navy Pier or Seattle Pike Place. Something where there's stuff to do besides just shopping.
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francishsu Hamlet

francishsu

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If a mall were built downtown, I very highly doubt one would be built in Walker. At least not for a long time. But who's to say we can't have all of those things you mentioned? Why limit ourselves? Crank it up a few notches! :) Get the ideas out there on receptive ears, and let the market and due diligence decide which ones survive. GR's quest for mediocrity is overtaking us all. :sick:
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Avocado Whistle-Stop

Avocado

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Something like this would take a minimum 5 - 7 years to pull off, so the only role I see UP playing is getting people talking about it. I personally would have no idea who to even go to in order to get the ball rolling on something like this. I'm just hoping someone somewhere reads this and does, as we have seen with many other ideas brought up here.

So far, our efforts to jazz up the current downtown retail scene has been met with tepid indifference and downright hostility from the powers that be in downtown.

(sorry Avocado, I keep adding thoughts to this :blush: My frustration reaches boiling points at times )

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Yes, I already thought about the movie theater, which would be nice to have downtown. But I really feel like a "I'm just going to build a mall that looks nicer than all the others" mentality is not going to cut it.

You make a good point about having the riverfront, which is something like a Navy Pier or Pike Place can take advantage of more than an indoor mall or even a lifestyle center.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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What kinds of things would be attractive to those looking for something different mixed in with the shopping opportunities? A skate park (like purple east)? Indoor soccer fields? Movie theater?

On another note, what kinds of stores in a large mall would hurt local shops? For instance, if a big label like Virgin Records were to be part of such a project, would a store like Vertigo lose business?

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NorthCoast Hamlet

NorthCoast

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Exactly. So, for downtown to reach the status of "retail destination" we need to look at adding retail space. Some type of retail development will be necessary at some point to achieve this, whatever it may be. My vision of a downtown mall looks like this:

  • Brick or Glass structure that fits in with current downtown architecture, minimum of 2 stories

  • Along the river to take advantage of the river walk and pedestrian traffic

  • High end stores NOT found in Rivertown or Woodland (more along the lines of Terrazo type stores, differentiated from the burbs)

  • Movie theater should be included in a master plan

  • Effective mass transit to bring patrons in from other parts of downtown and surrounding areas

  • Parking structure with ground floor retail

  • Full service grocery store accessible from the mall as well as outside of it

  • Access to each retail space from both indoors and outdoors

  • Perhaps it could be attached to the skywalk system already in place (makes Fulton/Market ideal)

  • Mall would be tapped into the community (not Taubman/General Growth)--seasonal fashion shows, shopping events, validate parking, discounts for DT workers

  • Mall works hand-in-hand with other downtown retailers NOT in the mall to promote downtown retail as a whole, not just retailers in the mall

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blueradon Hamlet

blueradon

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ok so I'm not a guru sketchup fanatic or antyhing - but here we go:

1736888076_e38376bea0_o.jpg

1736034809_3eacdd5477_o.jpg

And to explain the colors

Orange - Retail

Green - Residential

Dark Green - Green Space/Park

Blue - Parking Ramps

Purple - Urban Grocery Store

Pink - Botique Hotels

Brown - Community Center/Thing :lol:

Yellow - Restaurants/Bakeries/Cafes

Pumpkin Color - River Boardwalk

Couple interesting things I did was added a roundabout on Market and the little "roadways" in the old city services lot would be pedestrian sidewalks (no roads) so that they'd be pretty much forced to park at the parking ramps and walk around the town.

Too bad we don't have room for something like this more downtownish. Yeah I was bored today so that's my idea.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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ok so I'm not a guru sketchup fanatic or antyhing - but here we go:

Couple interesting things I did was added a roundabout on Market and the little "roadways" in the old city services lot would be pedestrian sidewalks (no roads) so that they'd be pretty much forced to park at the parking ramps and walk around the town.

Too bad we don't have room for something like this more downtownish. Yeah I was bored today so that's my idea.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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That's a tricky piece of property to develop a mall. It would either have to be smaller in scale or very vertical. There are also some factors to consider...

1. What do you do with Charlie's Crab? It is a GR staple restaurant and I like the fact that it sits on the river. How could it somehow be incorporated into development plans?

2. Parking...a garage of some sort would obviously have to be built. Preferably on the current Charlie's Crab site so it can serve as a buffer between the actual development and 131.

3. The skywalks...not a bad thing here, they would just have to get incorporated into the design somehow.

4. Unlike the ever popular "mystery development" spot...Fulton/Market does not have a lot of immediately adjacent blocks that are in need of development. Plaza Towers, the River, 131, and the Van have this piece of property pretty confined.

Do you try to connect this development across the Grand River or 131 to other pieces of properties or do you get creative and wind the development on top of the surface lots behind the Van Andel arena? Or maybe you are just content with your little plot of land and make the most of it.

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