Walton Arts Center Location

[zman9810]

Sorry I didn't mean to be misleading. I'm not saying I don't think our area can't support two competing arts centers. But if the WAC does build it's main facility in Benton County. I wouldn't want Fayetteville to just make a knee jerk reaction without taking a close look at what severing ties with the WAC means. While our metro very well could support two arts centers. I don't want us to just assume it will and end up with a floundering arts center that wasn't really prepared. I think a lot of us in Fayetteville would instantly like to cuts ties as soon as a possible announcement was made by the WAC to build in Benton County. I just think if that scenario were to play out, Fayetteville needs to closely examine the whole situation. Resist the temptation to make a quick separation and look into the best way to proceed.

I agree that Fayetteville needs to look closely at the situation- and they need to do it now and not wait until the location decison has been made. As many studies as the City of FAyetteville has done in the last 20 years I think a study of the economic and social impact of the WAC now plus a comparison of the impact of the expansion in Fayetteville and away from it is as important as any. We have some leaders that seem to pay lip service to economic development and taking care of the businesses already here but are siting still when it comes to this issue.

One argument I've heard for moving " Arkansas’ premier center for the performing arts and entertainment" out of Fayetteville is that it is a regional way of looking at things. That doesn't make sense- how is damaging Fayetteville good for the region? How is dividing the region a good idea? The idea of having the performing arts center in Fayetteville at one end of the metro and the visual arts at the other end in Bentonville is a good idea. Having it all in Bentonville is not a good idea.

[Mith242]

I agree that Fayetteville needs to look closely at the situation- and they need to do it now and not wait until the location decison has been made. As many studies as the City of FAyetteville has done in the last 20 years I think a study of the economic and social impact of the WAC now plus a comparison of the impact of the expansion in Fayetteville and away from it is as important as any. We have some leaders that seem to pay lip service to economic development and taking care of the businesses already here but are siting still when it comes to this issue.

One argument I've heard for moving " Arkansas’ premier center for the performing arts and entertainment" out of Fayetteville is that it is a regional way of looking at things. That doesn't make sense- how is damaging Fayetteville good for the region? How is dividing the region a good idea? The idea of having the performing arts center in Fayetteville at one end of the metro and the visual arts at the other end in Bentonville is a good idea. Having it all in Bentonville is not a good idea.

Yeah I don't know about it being a 'regional' way of looking at things. Sounds like to me that's more of some excuse being made by Benton County people. But I don't blame people in Benton County for wanting the WAC. I do think Fayetteville needs to show the WAC the benefits of having the main facility in Fayetteville. I do think Fayetteville also needs to start looking ahead in case the WAC decides on Benton County. But I don't know if I'd want them to do a big public study just yet. I wouldn't want to antagonize the WAC people just yet. That could really backfire any possibility of the WAC staying in Fayetteville.

[zman9810]

Yeah I don't know about it being a 'regional' way of looking at things. Sounds like to me that's more of some excuse being made by Benton County people. But I don't blame people in Benton County for wanting the WAC. I do think Fayetteville needs to show the WAC the benefits of having the main facility in Fayetteville. I do think Fayetteville also needs to start looking ahead in case the WAC decides on Benton County. But I don't know if I'd want them to do a big public study just yet. I wouldn't want to antagonize the WAC people just yet. That could really backfire any possibility of the WAC staying in Fayetteville.

One of the reasons I think a study now would be a good idea is that some of the general public sees the WAC location issue the way they do public school matters. If they don't have children or aren't directly connected to the schools they feel that the what happens with the schools is none of their concern, at least until they get a chance to vote down a millage increase. That isn't true - we know that the quality of the public school system is a community wide concern and has great economic implications.

It's the same with the Walton Arts Center- the premier center for the performing arts and entertainment of NWA. Regardless if one attends events there- it's presence affects the whole community. It was and is the cause for the redevelopment of the Dickson Street area and downtown area. The direct economic affects of the event attendees and show entourages being in the area is great and need to be taken into account. The civic pride, which although harder to quantify, is a very important aspect of the issue. It's use as a attraction for businesses and university faculty and students is imnportant. Once the WAC leaves it is gone for good- there won't be a second chance. The time to start the effort to keep it here is now.

[Snaple4]

I know the city owns the WAC lot (including Grubs) and the parking to the west along the tracks, but what else does the city own? Does it own this parking lot and any of the residential lots here? Also, does the city own the other WAC building to the West of the link I provided?

I tried looking at the city maps to determine what lots it has controll over but didn't see what I needed. This kind of goes with the post I just made in the Fayetteville post about the city hospital.

[Mith242]

I know the city owns the WAC lot (including Grubs) and the parking to the west along the tracks, but what else does the city own? Does it own this parking lot and any of the residential lots here? Also, does the city own the other WAC building to the West of the link I provided?

I tried looking at the city maps to determine what lots it has control over but didn't see what I needed. This kind of goes with the post I just made in the Fayetteville post about the city hospital.

I believe it does own that parking lot but I'm not so sure about the houses on that block. But the city has talked about putting a parking garage on that block before though. I'd also guess the city owns the building a bit south of the WAC parking lot.

On a side note, someone has the Flying Burrito in the wrong place on that map. That really irks me when people do things like that.

[zman9810]

I beleive the city bought the Nadine Baum Studios building from the beverage distributor that was there and leases it to the WAC. The city owns that small corner parking lot but not the houses around it.

There is a lot of space there south of the current WAC that should be used for a parking deck. The administation building and the building housing Grub's both could be removed and a deck with retail lining the street level of it could be built. Unfortunately, our current city leadership made clear during the mayoral campaign that they wanted to keep that area as is- when Dan Coody was defeated all the momentum towards a deck ceased.

[Mith242]

I believe the city bought the Nadine Baum Studios building from the beverage distributor that was there and leases it to the WAC. The city owns that small corner parking lot but not the houses around it.

There is a lot of space there south of the current WAC that should be used for a parking deck. The administration building and the building housing Grub's both could be removed and a deck with retail lining the street level of it could be built.

I agree. I parking deck could be built there and then free up some space so that something can be done at the current parking lot area. A larger parking deck with some mixed use space. There was also talk of a hotel there also with a parking deck as well. That would be great as well.

[zman9810]

The recent news about a possible paid parking plan for the Dickson Street area prompted an editiorial in the NWA Times. One of the points made in the editorial was that the possible Walton Arts Center expansion would add traffic to the area for the larger events that it would allow. While it is a valid point that extra traffic would be generated by the the few events larger than what the WAC has now that extra traffic would be nothing compared to what is genreated when the Razorbacks have a home football game or BBBQ is in town. The extra traffic would be a minimal disruption compared to what happens many times a year when Dickson Street is shut down for parades, marches and festivals.

Adding a parking deck would eliminate many traffic problems that now occur when people continually circle the area looking for a place to park. The parking deck plan is essential to any plan to keep the new. larger WAC facility in Fayetteville.

[Mith242]

The recent news about a possible paid parking plan for the Dickson Street area prompted an editorial in the NWA Times. One of the points made in the editorial was that the possible Walton Arts Center expansion would add traffic to the area for the larger events that it would allow. While it is a valid point that extra traffic would be generated by the the few events larger than what the WAC has now that extra traffic would be nothing compared to what is generated when the Razorbacks have a home football game or BBBQ is in town. The extra traffic would be a minimal disruption compared to what happens many times a year when Dickson Street is shut down for parades, marches and festivals.

Adding a parking deck would eliminate many traffic problems that now occur when people continually circle the area looking for a place to park. The parking deck plan is essential to any plan to keep the new. larger WAC facility in Fayetteville.

Yeah I mean come on. Hey let's close the WAC so that we'll have less traffic. Like you said, there's always time something's going on or there's some sort of traffic problems. You also get trucks dropping off goods to the restaurants and bars sometimes blocking parts of the street as well. I think if you're driving down Dickson you just expect you're not going to zip through there. There's all the crosswalks and people as well.

[zman9810]

While the new, larger facilty would have some impact through increased traffic for a limited number of events and a change to the streetscape of the area, it in fact wouldn't be a detriment at all. Just the opposite - it would give a charge to both the economic and cultural aspects of Fayetteville. While there are some who think that letting the current facilty become a second rate venue that defers to a new facilty many miles away fits in with their idea of a 'small town culture', they fail to realize the huge negative affect that this would have on Fayetteville. The WAC is still the the catalyst that started the rebirth of central Fayetteville. It is what anchors the Dickson Street entertainment district- without it the area becomes just a club and resturant area.

Ther are actually very few events that require a larger facilty. Only when artists like YoYo Ma and Midori and shows like Phantom of the Opera come to town are the extra seats and performing space needed. Regardless- Fayetteville is still the choice for a new, larger Walton Arts Center or whatever the new facilty is named.

[Mith242]

While the new, larger facility would have some impact through increased traffic for a limited number of events and a change to the streetscape of the area, it in fact wouldn't be a detriment at all. Just the opposite - it would give a charge to both the economic and cultural aspects of Fayetteville. While there are some who think that letting the current facility become a second rate venue that defers to a new facility many miles away fits in with their idea of a 'small town culture', they fail to realize the huge negative affect that this would have on Fayetteville. The WAC is still the the catalyst that started the rebirth of central Fayetteville. It is what anchors the Dickson Street entertainment district- without it the area becomes just a club and restaurant area.

There are actually very few events that require a larger facility. Only when artists like Yo Yo Ma and Midori and shows like Phantom of the Opera come to town are the extra seats and performing space needed. Regardless- Fayetteville is still the choice for a new, larger Walton Arts Center or whatever the new facility is named.

Yeah Bentonville is basically looking for a 'small town culture' as well but they certainly would take the WAC. I also don't see them complaining about Crystal Bridges either. If you're not growing you're stagnating. I do believe in smart growth, but Fayetteville also has to worry about sending all the development to the north. There's a lot tax revenue being generated in Benton County now. Having the main WAC facility in Benton County simply increases that. Fayetteville also risks slowly being one of the entertainment districts in NWA instead of being THE entertainment district of NWA.

[zman9810]

Yeah Bentonville is basically looking for a 'small town culture' as well but they certainly would take the WAC. I also don't see them complaining about Crystal Bridges either. If you're not growing you're stagnating. I do believe in smart growth, but Fayetteville also has to worry about sending all the development to the north. There's a lot tax revenue being generated in Benton County now. Having the main WAC facility in Benton County simply increases that. Fayetteville also risks slowly being one of the entertainment districts in NWA instead of being THE entertainment district of NWA.

Yeah, that's a good point- in Bentonville 'small town culture' wouldn't preclude Wal Mart from putting up a 15 story office tower on the old Benton County fairgrounds. The city would go along with that with no oppostion to speak of. If Wal Mart came to Fayetteville and wanted to put up the same 15 story office tower(filled with workers earning $50,000 plus)on the former Divinity development site there would be a huge uproar against it. In Fayetteville, "small town culture" is code for no-growth.

[thewizard16]

Yeah, that's a good point- in Bentonville 'small town culture' wouldn't preclude Wal Mart from putting up a 15 story office tower on the old Benton County fairgrounds. The city would go along with that with no oppostion to speak of. If Wal Mart came to Fayetteville and wanted to put up the same 15 story office tower(filled with workers earning $50,000 plus)on the former Divinity development site there would be a huge uproar against it. In Fayetteville, "small town culture" is code for no-growth.

That's true, but that's Dickson Street. They'd probably be able to be talked into it if it were right downtown (that'd be amazing actually) or near where Bellafont was going to be. I don't necessarily think the whole "small town culture" atmosphere directly translates into a no major growth philosophy for Fayetteville, I thought that preserving that character while growing intelligently was the whole point of spending money on the 2025 Master Plan (a lot of good that did, since our administration has mostly chosen to ignore it), and hopefully that's what we'll do.

[Mith242]

That's true, but that's Dickson Street. They'd probably be able to be talked into it if it were right downtown (that'd be amazing actually) or near where Bellafont was going to be. I don't necessarily think the whole "small town culture" atmosphere directly translates into a no major growth philosophy for Fayetteville, I thought that preserving that character while growing intelligently was the whole point of spending money on the 2025 Master Plan (a lot of good that did, since our administration has mostly chosen to ignore it), and hopefully that's what we'll do.

But there does seem to be some people here who actually do want zero growth. I guess I just find that odd. I can't recall hardly many other cities that I've been to that had a small group of people like that. Or maybe our small group is just more vocal than other areas. But I guess I'm still having a hard time imagining a larger WAC causing 'problems' for Dickson St. Personally I'd like to keep it on or near Dickson. But at this point I'd take any location in Fayetteville if that means we get to keep the main facility. I just wonder if that's likely, that the WAC would have two facilities in Fayetteville. Just seems they'd be more likely to have a second facility somewhere in Benton County.

[thewizard16]

But there does seem to be some people here who actually do want zero growth. I guess I just find that odd. I can't recall hardly many other cities that I've been to that had a small group of people like that. Or maybe our small group is just more vocal than other areas. But I guess I'm still having a hard time imagining a larger WAC causing 'problems' for Dickson St. Personally I'd like to keep it on or near Dickson. But at this point I'd take any location in Fayetteville if that means we get to keep the main facility. I just wonder if that's likely, that the WAC would have two facilities in Fayetteville. Just seems they'd be more likely to have a second facility somewhere in Benton County.

I think it's the volume, not the quantity with the no growth-ers. I'm adamant about WAC remaining and expanding on Dickson. That district can be, and I think it will be, the long-term anchor for a revitalization of the entire downtown and near-UofA area, but it's going to need a higher-end draw like the WAC (the main WAC, in my opinion) to do that. I think an expanded/new arts center across the street from the current one (one of the most feasible proposed plans from the WAC committees) with a parking deck and small retail in the parking deck (or more ideally, hotel at the site of the old WAC with attached multi-use parking deck) would be the best possible resolution and one the City of Fayetteville needs to find a way to promote. I know there's not money to do that right now, but get a plan in place.

[Mith242]

I think it's the volume, not the quantity with the no growth-ers. I'm adamant about WAC remaining and expanding on Dickson. That district can be, and I think it will be, the long-term anchor for a revitalization of the entire downtown and near-UofA area, but it's going to need a higher-end draw like the WAC (the main WAC, in my opinion) to do that. I think an expanded/new arts center across the street from the current one (one of the most feasible proposed plans from the WAC committees) with a parking deck and small retail in the parking deck (or more ideally, hotel at the site of the old WAC with attached multi-use parking deck) would be the best possible resolution and one the City of Fayetteville needs to find a way to promote. I know there's not money to do that right now, but get a plan in place.

I do like that plan as well. But I guess I was under the impression that the WAC was looking more to have two facilities in the area. Now I suppose if there was enough room and you were planning on staying in Fayetteville you could simply build a large enough facility to hold not just the larger events but also other events as well freeing up the space for the old facility. I guess I just keep getting the feeling the WAC wants to have a facility in Benton County and will keep the current facility here in Fayetteville as a way to try to placate Fayetteville people. Maybe I'm wrong and there really isn't any predetermined motives here. Anyway as zman has been saying for quite a while, Fayetteville needs to get moving. I like the idea of building a small parking garage to the south allowing us a bit more time so that we can move ahead on converting the current parking lot into the new facility. Hopefully adding another parking garage with it as well. Then freeing up the current facility for the idea like a hotel like you mentioned. But I think Fayetteville needs to show the WAC that it has a plan and can move forward on it. I doubt the WAC wants to wait years for Fayetteville or Jordan to eventually get around to it. I suppose there's a bit of a risk of moving forward on a parking garage with the WAC still deciding to build their 'main facility' elsewhere. But still a parking garage would still be very useful and could still allow Fayetteville to make future plans for the current parking lot. All of this of course works better with the main WAC facility staying in the area. But I think still useful for trying to allow future growth for Dickson St even if we had to try to do it without the main WAC facility. I don't think there's enough cons for Fayetteville not to still act on this.

[zman9810]

From what I've heard the Walton Arts Center as an organization does not believe that it is feasible to have two large, competing performing arts centers in NWA. That is why they are trying to sell the idea that the current facilty will stay in place and be the Walton Arts Center; to prevent competition. If a new facilty were to be built away from Fayetteville it would need all the support that the current facilty has now and more. The donors to that new facilty would demand (if only in private) that it receive top billing and the most attractive events. The WAC can make all the promises they want about how the present facility is to be treated in order to gain support, but when the new facilty built miles away is open all those promises can be reneged on. This is why it is imperative that it is made clear by Fayetteville city officials (again, if only in private) that if the WAC expands away from the city that the organization needs to go with it.

[zman9810]

That's true, but that's Dickson Street. They'd probably be able to be talked into it if it were right downtown (that'd be amazing actually) or near where Bellafont was going to be. I don't necessarily think the whole "small town culture" atmosphere directly translates into a no major growth philosophy for Fayetteville, I thought that preserving that character while growing intelligently was the whole point of spending money on the 2025 Master Plan (a lot of good that did, since our administration has mostly chosen to ignore it), and hopefully that's what we'll do.

Fayetteville has always had a number of residents that see growth as a negative and want to stop it at all costs- economic or otherwise. I think probably the larger anti-growth group are those who don't want any changes close to their personal area. These include people who say they are for positive ideas like economic development, sustainabilty and the City Plan 2025 but when it comes time to support them in a real way. don't. There are residents that support public transportation options like light rail but not the development changes like infill and redevelopment that are required for it to be feasible. They are willing to let development go out to the edges of town as long as there are no changes to the central part of it. I think what seems to be lukewarm support by the city administration for the WAC expansion is an indication of this group's influence.

[wmr]

I think WAC having a presence in Benton County is a foregone conclusion. They'll build some kind of performing arts space there.

I really think that Fayetteville should focus on how to rehabilitate the current facility into a larger venue so that it remains the most important one in NWA. Surely there is a way to construct a new auditiorium adjacent, and once its completed, rehab the current space into other uses. There's a lot of space out front where the plaza is. There's room on the north side where the small parking area is.

I just can't imagine WAC building a second WAC across the street and not building anything in Benton County.

[Mith242]

I think WAC having a presence in Benton County is a foregone conclusion. They'll build some kind of performing arts space there.

I really think that Fayetteville should focus on how to rehabilitate the current facility into a larger venue so that it remains the most important one in NWA. Surely there is a way to construct a new auditorium adjacent, and once its completed, rehab the current space into other uses. There's a lot of space out front where the plaza is. There's room on the north side where the small parking area is.

I just can't imagine WAC building a second WAC across the street and not building anything in Benton County.

That's sorta what I've been thinking as well. I have a hard time imagining the WAC not doing anything in Benton County. But if that happens it's much easier to simply build a bigger facility up there rather than build a smaller facility there and try to improve and enlarge the current facility as the main facility. There is space around the WAC that could be used. But at the same time the current layout really doesn't make expanding at the current site very feasible. They did a bad job at the current layout for any future expansion. I can't help but think it would be easier to tear the building down and start out with something new rather than renovate it. But the WAC also wouldn't want to not have any programs during that whole time period. Overall if they would keep the main facility in Fayetteville and build a secondary facility in Benton County I think you could make a lot of people happy. Sure Benton County people would like to see the main facility up there. But I think they'd also be satisfied with a secondary facility for now. I don't think people in Fayetteville would have any problems with a secondary facility in Benton County. Fayetteville just wants to keep the primary facility here. Perhaps build a secondary facility in Benton County now and then find a way to redevelop the current facility in Fayetteville as the main facility. You'd still have events going on at the Benton County location while the Fayetteville facility is down for a major renovation. Either that or just go for a totally new larger facility somewhere else in Fayetteville. Either across the street or somewhere else. But I'm not sure if the WAC is looking at basically building two new facilities. Unfortunately for Fayetteville it seems to me the easiest way would be to keep the current facility as is and build a new larger facility in Benton County. The WAC may try to placate Fayetteville in saying at some future point they'll make a major renovation or build a new facility in Fayetteville. But for the foreseeable future that would mean Benton County would have the main facility. I don't want things to work out that way, but honestly that to me seems the most likely outcome. Unless Fayetteville let's the WAC know they would probably cancel their agreement and get another entity to run a competing arts center in Fayetteville. I just don't know if I'd see the WAC willing to make that big of an effort to not reducing Fayetteville to having the secondary facility. I think Fayetteville is going to have to provide some incentive or cause for the WAC to go with a plan that would be harder to achieve. Otherwise, looking at it from their standpoint, why wouldn't the WAC simply build a new larger facility in Benton County?

[zman9810]

It isn't inevitable that the the main facilty will be in Benton County or even a secondary one for that matter. There is already a performance space for indoor events at the Arend Arts Center of the Bentonville High School that serves very well. There is also a plan for an outdoor ampitheater for larger shows in Benton County that will help fulfill that need. Even Crystal Bridges will have an outdoor performance space.

Former Fayetteville Mayor Dan Coody suggested that the north end of the metro have the visual arts center in Crystal Bridges while the south end would have the performing arts center in the Walton Ats Center. Great idea to me- this encourages visitors to the area to explore all of NWA. Regardless of what assurances are made- removing the main performing arts facilty from Fayetteville would harm the city. There has been some talk that building the main facilty in Benton County is a metro- wide way of looking at it- I think it is just the opposite. Harming Fayetteville would not be good for the metro as a whole.

[Mith242]

It isn't inevitable that the the main facility will be in Benton County or even a secondary one for that matter. There is already a performance space for indoor events at the Arend Arts Center of the Bentonville High School that serves very well. There is also a plan for an outdoor amphitheater for larger shows in Benton County that will help fulfill that need. Even Crystal Bridges will have an outdoor performance space.

Former Fayetteville Mayor Dan Coody suggested that the north end of the metro have the visual arts center in Crystal Bridges while the south end would have the performing arts center in the Walton Ats Center. Great idea to me- this encourages visitors to the area to explore all of NWA. Regardless of what assurances are made- removing the main performing arts facility from Fayetteville would harm the city. There has been some talk that building the main facility in Benton County is a metro- wide way of looking at it- I think it is just the opposite. Harming Fayetteville would not be good for the metro as a whole.

Oh I certainly agree with you. But trying to look at this from a perspective of the WAC. I could see them wanting to have a presence in Benton County. Having two locations could also be convenient. All of this is just assuming that they'll be looking at what's best for themselves not what's necessarily best for Fayetteville. Just seems to me Fayetteville needs to give the WAC more of a reason for keeping the main facility in Fayetteville. Otherwise Fayetteville risks being stuck with the secondary facility. I certainly hop things work out for Fayetteville. But I don't know, I have to say I don't feel too confident right now.

[zman9810]

Oh I certainly agree with you. But trying to look at this from a perspective of the WAC. I could see them wanting to have a presence in Benton County. Having two locations could also be convenient. All of this is just assuming that they'll be looking at what's best for themselves not what's necessarily best for Fayetteville. Just seems to me Fayetteville needs to give the WAC more of a reason for keeping the main facility in Fayetteville. Otherwise Fayetteville risks being stuck with the secondary facility. I certainly hop things work out for Fayetteville. But I don't know, I have to say I don't feel too confident right now.

Hopefully the WAC will look at what is best for NWA as a whole and keep the main facilty in Faytteville. There's no doubt that the city of Fayetteville and the University of Arkansas need to provide all incentives they can to promote the city as the place for the expansion. Aplan with incentives such as a parking deck (that is already needed) and willigness to let the design that the WAC needs to flow through the planning process would be good starts.

The fact that many of the WAC board members either live or work in Fayetteville hopefuly helps. Many of the board members also are connected to the university so that should play a role also. The bottom line will be what the primary donor to the organization decides -do they want to build a monument to themselves or make a contribution to the NWA community as a whole?

[Mith242]

Apparently the WAC Board of Directors are meeting today. They won't be deciding a location just yet but will decide what criteria will be used to determine the site. A news conference will be at 5:45PM later today. I guess overall nothing has been decided just yet but we're slowly getting a step closer to eventually getting a decision. Not sure if it's a good sign for Fayetteville in that Mayor Jordan didn't seem to know anything about today's meeting.

[Mith242]

Well here's what the WAC Board announced today on the criteria for the new site. They want a minimum of 3 acres of land but would prefer 6-10 acres. They want a minimum of 1100 parking spaces but would prefer up to 1450 spaces. They also want easy access off of I-540. Even if Fayetteville were able to keep the new WAC sounds to me it's going to have to go to west Fayetteville. Sounds like anywhere near downtown or Dickson St is pretty much ruled out. While I certainly hope Fayetteville is able to host the site. I'm still pretty disappointed that they feel they have to have something basically near I-540. I know that's not what they technically said but it's pretty much what we're going to end up getting. Mayor Jordan sounds like he already has something lined up to offer. But I still can't help but feel that the most likely location for the new WAC facility will end up in Benton County.