Orlando: SoDo (South of Downtown) development

[zaadee]

This place looks pretty impressive. Given the site constraints, I suspect the revised Miles plan in Brooklyn will have a similar style of footprint.

pics courtesy of jzquice69 at: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=464050

[VistaLakes01]

This place looks pretty impressive. Given the site constraints, I suspect the revised Miles plan in Brooklyn will have a similar style of footprint.

pics courtesy of jzquice69 at: <a href="http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=464050" target="_blank">http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=464050</a>

SoDo is really going to add a very positvie impact to the downtown Orlando vibe. The city center is becoming very well rounded in every direction from the residential, dining and club scene in the city center, the redevelopment of Parramore to the west, Thornton Park and South Eola (SoEo) and Coloniatown, The Ivanhoe district to the north and Savoy nightclub in that area, the Vimi district and the ever growing trendiness of College Park to the north. There is Pulse nigthclub in SoDo area and already a large population of city dwellers in that area already. The city is quickly becoming an active, exciting diverse trendy place to be. Can you isualize all the activity throughout downtown every day and nightand? What an amazing and exciting transformation we are exsperiencing. A real city at last! Plus Baldwin Park and the Fashion Square area is actually seeing an increase in business and with the beautiful renovation of Fashion Square and a 96% occupancy level and the return of some retailers that it lost are coming back such as the Gap, possibly J Crew, Hollister and Abercrombie, bebe sport, JuicyCouture, XXI Forever and talk of Maggiano's and California Pizza Kitchen and an enlarged Macy's. So if this all pans out, Orlando is set to have about the most active downtown in the state. A trolley connecting these areas would be a fantastic asset. All I can say is Go Orlando!

[poonther]

Shouldn't this be in the ORL threads and not in the general FL threads? Anyway to move it to its proper place? Thanks!

[Julez]

I was thinking the same thing.

[tombarnes]

The topic has been moved accordingly. Tom

[spenser1058]

SoDo is really going to add a very positvie impact to the downtown Orlando vibe. The city center is becoming very well rounded in every direction from the residential, dining and club scene in the city center, the redevelopment of Parramore to the west, Thornton Park and South Eola (SoEo) and Coloniatown, The Ivanhoe district to the north and Savoy nightclub in that area, the Vimi district and the ever growing trendiness of College Park to the north. There is Pulse nigthclub in SoDo area and already a large population of city dwellers in that area already. The city is quickly becoming an active, exciting diverse trendy place to be. Can you isualize all the activity throughout downtown every day and nightand? What an amazing and exciting transformation we are exsperiencing. A real city at last! Plus Baldwin Park and the Fashion Square area is actually seeing an increase in business and with the beautiful renovation of Fashion Square and a 96% occupancy level and the return of some retailers that it lost are coming back such as the Gap, possibly J Crew, Hollister and Abercrombie, bebe sport, JuicyCouture, XXI Forever and talk of Maggiano's and California Pizza Kitchen and an enlarged Macy's. So if this all pans out, Orlando is set to have about the most active downtown in the state. A trolley connecting these areas would be a fantastic asset. All I can say is Go Orlando!

If the redo of Fashion Square happens http://www.wrtdesign.com/project-Fashion-S...lopment-44.html , that may be bad news for downtown. A SuperTarget was not a problem since there's really no room for one in the actual downtown core. Smaller upscale retail however, if it goes to Fashion Square, is less likely to go downtown since they are so close. I for one hope this doesn't play out. I hope Frank Billingsley and his staff are doing what's necessary to make sure downtown isn't in for a repeat of 1962 when construction of a new mall just east of the downtown core (Colonial Plaza) began the slow demise of downtown.

[JFW657]

I hope Frank Billingsley and his staff are doing what's necessary to make sure downtown isn't in for a repeat of 1962 when construction of a new mall just east of the downtown core (Colonial Plaza) began the slow demise of downtown.

It's very highly doubtful that will happen again because in the 1960's & 70's the migration away from downtowns to suburban shopping malls was a national trend due to increased crime & urban decay.

That trend has completely reversed and now downtowns are the hot places to be in every large & medium sized city in the country.

A few new stores in Fashion Square ain't gonna derail downtown Orlando's resurgence, especially once all the new high rise condos fill up with customers demanding the convenience of downtown shopping.

[JRS1]

If the redo of Fashion Square happens http://www.wrtdesign.com/project-Fashion-S...lopment-44.html , that may be bad news for downtown. A SuperTarget was not a problem since there's really no room for one in the actual downtown core. Smaller upscale retail however, if it goes to Fashion Square, is less likely to go downtown since they are so close. I for one hope this doesn't play out. I hope Frank Billingsley and his staff are doing what's necessary to make sure downtown isn't in for a repeat of 1962 when construction of a new mall just east of the downtown core (Colonial Plaza) began the slow demise of downtown.

IMO, that redo proposal for Fash Sq. is awesome.

yeah, I agree with the prior comments that the whole Colonial Plaza phenomenon was a byproduct of the day. I think that Fash. Square actually improving will benefit downtown.

[scottggilbertREALTOR]

Thanks for the information on Fashion Square - but couldn't tell much from the WRT site - are there any other sources for the redevelopment plans at Fashion Square - any time table?

[VistaLakes01]

IMO, that redo proposal for Fash Sq. is awesome.

yeah, I agree with the prior comments that the whole Colonial Plaza phenomenon was a byproduct of the day. I think that Fash. Square actually improving will benefit downtown.

I agree that things are totally different than when Colonial Plaza was built. It was built on the edge of town in a cow pasture owned by TG Lee dairy. I think in these times Fashion Square is more of an urban mall, just like the SoDo Target is an urban Target. Most people who live in the suburbs and many advertisers consider that area part of the central city (East Colonial Drive within the city limits.) If the mall were to close then there would be no Sears, Dillards, JCPenney or Macy's in the downtown area and there is no possible way those department stores are going to move in to the heart of downtown. And there is Baldwin Park which is a center city neighborhood, just like College Park. Eastside suburban in 2007 is Waterford Lakes Town Center and Oviedo Marketplace. If you live in the Fashion Square area, do you really have a commute downtown to work? You are in the neighborhood already. I think some pedestrian bridges connecting Colonial Plaza, the Target center, Fashion Square and the redone Herdon Plaza would be cool. Even cooler would be some sort of trolley connecting downtown, East Colonial Shopping and Park Ave, SoDo and College Park would bring the "true" city of Orlando together.

[JRS1]

Even cooler would be some sort of trolley connecting downtown, East Colonial Shopping and Park Ave, SoDo and College Park would bring the "true" city of Orlando together.

wasn't there a proposal for Lymmo to go all the way out to baldwyn last year?

[lala67]

wasn't there a proposal for Lymmo to go all the way out to baldwyn last year?

not sure about Baldwin Park, but possible. I think the City was looking into expanding Lymmo to College Park and possibly out to parramore/citrus bowl to connect the venues. Another proposal is to expand it south to the hospitals, Amtrack, and SODO along Lucerne Terrace.

edit: The downtown Transportation plan includes a Citrus Bowl Thornton Park fixed loop as part of phase 1 improvements, a downtown-uptown circulator b/w weber and south street in phase 2, and a fixed route to the south serving Florida Hospital/ORHS and commuter Rail in phase 3. It would make sense to continue that service past Kaley to Michigan and it's listed as a possible extension.

[JFW657]

If the mall were to close then there would be no Sears, Dillards, JCPenney or Macy's in the downtown area and there is no possible way those department stores are going to move in to the heart of downtown.

Although in the olden days there was a J.C. Pennney & Sears downtown. Penney's was of course where the Cornerstone sits now and Sears was where the AmSouth "Copper Whopper" Building sits.

[JRS1]

Although in the olden days there was a J.C. Pennney & Sears downtown. Penney's was of course where the Cornerstone sits now and Sears was where the AmSouth "Copper Whopper" Building sits.

wow. I had no idea. you know, DB had a Sears back in the day too, on Beach St. It's now a County building.

[codypet]

Although in the olden days there was a J.C. Pennney & Sears downtown. Penney's was of course where the Cornerstone sits now and Sears was where the AmSouth "Copper Whopper" Building sits.

I saw a pic of that a number of weeks ago, my question was if the cornerston building was the actual JC Penny building with just some major renovations to it or if it actually had been rased since that time?

[JFW657]

I saw a pic of that a number of weeks ago, my question was if the cornerston building was the actual JC Penny building with just some major renovations to it or if it actually had been rased since that time?

Never razed it. The original structure comprises the bottom two floors of what is there now.

A few years ago, some company came in and extended the building in the back, & then went up on top with steel to the height that it is now, but for the most part the new exterior blended in with the old Penney's exterior.

It was a used as a "switching hotel" for computer networks, but apparently it wasn't a successful venture, because after a couple of years or so, Khun bought it and redid it inside & out, which is what is there now.

[VistaLakes01]

Although in the olden days there was a J.C. Pennney & Sears downtown. Penney's was of course where the Cornerstone sits now and Sears was where the AmSouth "Copper Whopper" Building sits.

Besides the Sears and Penney's downtown, there was also an Ivey's (Dillard's), Lerners Shops, Bakers Shoes, Bari Shoes, Rutlands Mens Dept. Store, Gibbs Louis Womens Dept Store and most of the stores that made up the first phase of the inside mall part of Colonial Plaza. There was also a Winn Dixie on Rosalind Ave near the corner of Pine St. If Fashion Squ are were to deteriorate and close I am almost positive that none of it's anchors would relocate downtown or the 150 shops. That's why expansion of OFS would add to the city tremendously, especially if it includes 500 residential units. In my thoughts most anything in the city limits of Orlando is "the city." Like many large cities have large great neighborhoods, Orlando is becoming that type of city. Many cities are defined by being inside their beltways as opposed to outside their beltways. That doesn't really work for Orlando since our beltway is so huge, I consider being inside the "Orlando City Limits" as being our "city." Fashion Square is great for our downtown neighborhoods and many people I work with at my large company in Research Park don't even know where the mall is except "somewhere on East Colonial downtown." These are mostly suburbanites from Waterford, Oviedo, Winter Springs, Deltona and even Casselberry! I was not aware that so many people in the metro know nothing about the city of Orlando except it's big and crowded, has a lot of nightclubs and restaurants that are expensive and dressy. I've heard things like "it's all gays" and "you gotta wear black clothes to eat at those restaurants down there and the hosts, servers and patrons all have that snobby, trendy attitude." I find it hard to believe that so many Seminole county residents have never been to the Mall at Millenia and haven't heard about the opening of IKEA and even what IKEA is. I'm sure many have, but it looks like. Orlando has become large enough to have some true suburbs that are (except for employment) are totally self sufficient and their main thoughts are schools, large lawns and whatever else attracts people and families to suburbia and their are also new resididents new moving to Orlando looking for "big city living" also. Seminole residents can hang out in Altamonte Springs and Sanford now, and Osceola residents have their "Loop" shopping mall, a revitalized downtown Kissimmee, can hang out in Celebration, etc. Lake county has Mt. Dora, Leesburg, Clermont and The Villages.

SO BACK TO THE CITY OF ORLANDO:

We are a the area's large trendy city with our nice large neighborhoods with our urban, trendy residents that is continuously improving our quality of city life. We've got our great neighborhoods with their ever improving quality of life. College Park, great living with improving dining and shopping. Baldwin Park with a new version of the same, will probably take more years to establish than the city and developers made us believe but nice none the less. We've got Fashion Square and the East Colonial shopping district serving that area and most of the downtown or Eastern downtown neighborhoods including Audoubon Park Colonialtown, Lake Como the ViMi, Park Lake, Eola Heights, etc. We've got Thornton Park, SoEo,Delaney, Lancaster, Wadeview and SoDo! We've got the hot new

Millenia neighborhood. There's Metro West and Veranda Park. Their is Vista Lakes and Lake Nona. There is the slowly but hopefully now turning rapidly rebirth of Parramore and Rock Lake. Their is the North Orange (Antique District) and also the new activity in the ViMi, and also the more urbanized cities in Orange County of Winter Park and Maitland. And also remember that most cities with around 250,000 residents don't even have 1 shopping mall within the city limits, they usually have suburban malls. Orlando has many shopping districts as well as two malls within the city limits and one of them is upscale and the other looks very nice for a 35 year old center with improvements on the way. And a large majority of shoppers in the city's malls and shopping districts are urban, trendy type people and not suburban. For those in doubt that Orlando will become a big league city, it's happening and is also one of the few cities still growing people-wise in large numbers, without annexation. We may live in a "sprawling metro" but Orlando itself is not sprawling but continues to grow rapidly within the city limits. Only city in Florida that added more residents was Jacksonville and we all know that all of metro Jax is Jax. Sorry about the ridiculously long post, the main point supposed to be the importance of Orlando Fashion Square to the city.............along with SODO!

Although in the olden days there was a J.C. Pennney & Sears downtown. Penney's was of course where the Cornerstone sits now and Sears was where the AmSouth "Copper Whopper" Building sits.

Although in the olden days there was a J.C. Pennney & Sears downtown. Penney's was of course where the Cornerstone sits now and Sears was where the AmSouth "Copper Whopper" Building sits.

Besides the Sears and Penney's downtown, there was also an Ivey's (Dillard's), Lerners Shops, Bakers Shoes, Bari Shoes, Rutlands Mens Dept. Store, Gibbs Louis Womens Dept Store and most of the stores that made up the first phase of the inside mall part of Colonial Plaza. There was also a Winn Dixie on Rosalind Ave near the corner of Pine St. If Fashion Squ are were to deteriorate and close I am almost positive that none of it's anchors would relocate downtown or the 150 shops. That's why expansion of OFS would add to the city tremendously, especially if it includes 500 residential units. In my thoughts most anything in the city limits of Orlando is "the city." Like many large cities have large great neighborhoods, Orlando is becoming that type of city. Many cities are defined by being inside their beltways as opposed to outside their beltways. That doesn't really work for Orlando since our beltway is so huge, I consider being inside the "Orlando City Limits" as being our "city." Fashion Square is great for our downtown neighborhoods and many people I work with at my large company in Research Park don't even know where the mall is except "somewhere on East Colonial downtown." These are mostly suburbanites from Waterford, Oviedo, Winter Springs, Deltona and even Casselberry! I was not aware that so many people in the metro know nothing about the city of Orlando except it's big and crowded, has a lot of nightclubs and restaurants that are expensive and dressy. I've heard things like "it's all gays" and "you gotta wear black clothes to eat at those restaurants down there and the hosts, servers and patrons all have that snobby, trendy attitude." I find it hard to believe that so many Seminole county residents have never been to the Mall at Millenia and haven't heard about the opening of IKEA and even what IKEA is. I'm sure many have, but it looks like. Orlando has become large enough to have some true suburbs that are (except for employment) are totally self sufficient and their main thoughts are schools, large lawns and whatever else attracts people and families to suburbia and their are also new resididents new moving to Orlando looking for "big city living" also. Seminole residents can hang out in Altamonte Springs and Sanford now, and Osceola residents have their "Loop" shopping mall, a revitalized downtown Kissimmee, can hang out in Celebration, etc. Lake county has Mt. Dora, Leesburg, Clermont and The Villages.

SO BACK TO THE CITY OF ORLANDO:

We are a the area's large trendy city with our nice large neighborhoods with our urban, trendy residents that is continuously improving our quality of city life. We've got our great neighborhoods with their ever improving quality of life. College Park, great living with improving dining and shopping. Baldwin Park with a new version of the same, will probably take more years to establish than the city and developers made us believe but nice none the less. We've got Fashion Square and the East Colonial shopping district serving that area and most of the downtown or Eastern downtown neighborhoods including Audoubon Park Colonialtown, Lake Como the ViMi, Park Lake, Eola Heights, etc. We've got Thornton Park, SoEo,Delaney, Lancaster, Wadeview and SoDo! We've got the hot new

Millenia neighborhood. There's Metro West and Veranda Park. Their is Vista Lakes and Lake Nona. There is the slowly but hopefully now turning rapidly rebirth of Parramore and Rock Lake. Their is the North Orange (Antique District) and also the new activity in the ViMi, and also the more urbanized cities in Orange County of Winter Park and Maitland. And also remember that most cities with around 250,000 residents don't even have 1 shopping mall within the city limits, they usually have suburban malls. Orlando has many shopping districts as well as two malls within the city limits and one of them is upscale and the other looks very nice for a 35 year old center with improvements on the way. And a large majority of shoppers in the city's malls and shopping districts are urban, trendy type people and not suburban. For those in doubt that Orlando will become a big league city, it's happening and is also one of the few cities still growing people-wise in large numbers, without annexation. We may live in a "sprawling metro" but Orlando itself is not sprawling but continues to grow rapidly within the city limits. Only city in Florida that added more residents was Jacksonville and we all know that all of metro Jax is Jax. Sorry about the ridiculously long post, the main point supposed to be the importance of Orlando Fashion Square to the city.............along with SODO!

[JFW657]

Wow.... that was a long post.

Both times!!!

[tc01]

I passed by the Sodo site and it's shaping up very good.Want be long until it's finish

[VistaLakes01]

I past by the Sodo site and it's shaping up very good.Want be long until it's finish

Double sorry!

[cwetteland]

I past by the Sodo site and it's shaping up very good.Want be long until it's finish

Rephrased for English speakers ..

I passed by the Sodo site and it's shaping up nicely. It won't be long until it's finished.

[JFW657]

From McDonald's parking lot looking NW.

From Ace Hardware on Grant St. looking south.

From in front of future Super Target looking east up main thoroughfare towards Orange Ave.

Super Target main entrance

Escalators to 2nd floor of Super Target

[VistaLakes01]

Awesome pics JFW, thanks. SoDo is really coming along, I think the southside will never be the same again. I've always wondered why the southside east of Orange had such nice neighborhoods but was always so lifeless and dull. And Belle Isle and Edgewood, too. Those days are over! I hope the name SoDo catches on for the whole area. (I always call South Eola "SoLa")

[prahaboheme]

I kind of wish the name was more homegrown. Great development!

[VistaLakes01]

I kind of wish the name was more homegrown. Great development!

I know what you mean, it's really just the name of a shopping/lifestyle center. That's why I hope the name spreads throughout the neighborhood. But when you think about it, SoHO in NYC means south of Houston St., someone must of come up with that name as kind of a marketing tool for probably an abandoned neighborhood, isn't it all mostly art galleries and lofts? The ViMi District is a combo of Virginia Dr. and Mills Ave., they got the idea from that neighborhood in Atlanta, can't think of it now by I know part of it is Hi for Highland Ave. I noticed in the Charlotte forum they have an area that they call NoDa. All I can figure in maybe that stands for North of Davidson (not sure if that's the name of the street, but I know that there is a major street that starts with Davis. Denver has a LoDo, San Fran has a SoMa, which is south of Market St. and also the name of a muscle relaxer. What is the name of that part of town anyway, where SoDo is going up? Is it Wadeview Park, I know the old shopping center on Michigan is called Southside. I wonder when Mills Park goes up if that name will overcome ViMi.......