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Orlando: SoDo (South of Downtown) development


zaadee

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I guess I should premise my response than. I'm a young single guy so my grocery list consist of alot of prepared foods or minimal assembly foods. I really can't say if the prices are competitive for things like fresh meat and produce, it's just not a very big part of my shopping. The things that I generally buy, canned soups, dry pasta, frozen foods seemed to be much cheaper than at Publix. I don't live anywhere near a super Wal-Mart and generally don't like going there so I don't really know the prices there.

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I was there last night and I immediately found myself comparing it to the Target in Waterford Lakes. Layout -wise: I was completely lost, They have changed the layout since the construction of the Waterford and Millenia Supertargets (Millenia being a flipped version of Waterford.) That being said once you get used to it I think it might catch. Clothes are on the complete opposite of the store in SODO instead of being in the middle like Millenia, Waterford, or even WM Supercenter. There's a lot of checkouts, but fewer than what Waterford has. That being said, there were more registers open in SODO at 8pm than you see on Saturday at 10am at Waterford. Prices were about 10-20 cents more expensive than Waterford. My next point is only going to make sense if you have been to the Waterford ST and that is I was not impressed by the layout and look of the Produce Dept of SODO ST. Waterford can only be described as a Target with a grocery store attached with the wall in between the two stores removed. The SODO ST never fails to remind you that you buying your groceries in Target. It is a smaller store than Waterford so it is to be expected that the layout is different.

That being said, the most unique thing about this Target is not the Target itself, but the parking garage. The escalator to the garage level is really cool! You have to consider, Target could have put a parking lot all the way to Orange but didn't. You can also tell they are counting on having a lot of walk and bike traffic. I feel the garage is smaller than I expected and there was TONS of bicycle racks. Kudos to the developers of SODO, I've been long preaching that infill is what is needed and not sprawl, part of how you do that is to put the parking spaces above the building instead of in front of it. That south of Orange corridor could look really nice. I notice that the buildings in front of SODO at Page St and Orange were torn down so obviously somthing is going there, and at Michigan and Orange the Marathon Gas station closed down and the dry cleaners is for sale. So if these properties become little infill projects, that area can shape up really nicely. Only time will tell.

Just my $.02

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The feel thus far of this complex has so much potential, but walking up and down the main street I'm kind of disappointed by the retailers. Jason's Deli in one of the premiere spots in front? I mean... really? Jason's Deli isn't terrible, it's just... not a real crowd drawing restaurant IMO. Some other random retailers, but we'll see. I'm sure that rent is at chain affordable prices, so let's try bringing some chains that Orlando doesn't have... Like Daphne's Greek Cafe, In & Out Burger, Gordon Biersch; places that are different from the Orlando norm yet with good reputations. Who do we need to get to lure such restaurateurs?

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I went by today thinking that Taco Bell was open, which it obviously isn't, and this place is already traffic hell. It is only going to get worse.

I tried to turn left out of Checkers at 11am and it was hell! I gave up and made a right and turned down Page St. I don't think people realize that you can get out at Grant St. Obviously the Page St. entrance to SODO is still closed. There is plenty of ways out of the place, I don't know why everyone insists on using the Crystal Lake Ave exit.

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The feel thus far of this complex has so much potential, but walking up and down the main street I'm kind of disappointed by the retailers. Jason's Deli in one of the premiere spots in front? I mean... really? Jason's Deli isn't terrible, it's just... not a real crowd drawing restaurant IMO. Some other random retailers, but we'll see. I'm sure that rent is at chain affordable prices, so let's try bringing some chains that Orlando doesn't have... Like Daphne's Greek Cafe, In & Out Burger, Gordon Biersch; places that are different from the Orlando norm yet with good reputations. Who do we need to get to lure such restaurateurs?

Taking a cursory glance at Kimco's ( www.kimcorealty.com ) portfolio in the cities in FL, GA and TN I'm most familiar with (even in the more upscale neighborhoods), this seems to be a typical assortment for them. I think you see what we would expect from this particular developer.

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I tried to turn left out of Checkers at 11am and it was hell! I gave up and made a right and turned down Page St. I don't think people realize that you can get out at Grant St. Obviously the Page St. entrance to SODO is still closed. There is plenty of ways out of the place, I don't know why everyone insists on using the Crystal Lake Ave exit.

I never take Crystal Lake even when pulling out of McD's to head back to downtown-- sometimes I do, but I also sometimes go to Division and take the "back" way to downtown; it depends really. Grant is the way to go of course. they may eventually place a light at Crystal Lake.

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There is plenty of ways out of the place, I don't know why everyone insists on using the Crystal Lake Ave exit.

Because the exits are not appropriately marked, too narrow, and the Target ramp (which receives 95+% of the patrons) dumps its exit on Crystal Lake, what do they expect?

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Because the exits are not appropriately marked, too narrow, and the Target ramp (which receives 95+% of the patrons) dumps its exit on Crystal Lake, what do they expect?

there's a Grant St. exit as well from the garage. you're right about the signage, b/c the first time I exited, I didn't realize you could go out Grant St. way. even so, you can cut back across the front of Target back to Grant, but you make a good point.

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there's a Grant St. exit as well from the garage. you're right about the signage, b/c the first time I exited, I didn't realize you could go out Grant St. way. even so, you can cut back across the front of Target back to Grant, but you make a good point.

I agree, exiting the garage is kind of funny and you can't really tell that the Grant St exit is there from the garage. Perhaps a hanging sign infront of the Grant exit with arrows saying "North exit" or "downtown exit" would clear things up.

I never take Crystal Lake even when pulling out of McD's to head back to downtown-- sometimes I do, but I also sometimes go to Division and take the "back" way to downtown; it depends really. Grant is the way to go of course. they may eventually place a light at Crystal Lake.

You're right about leaving the McDonald's. Unfortunately the Checker's is worse across the street. The only way out of there is onto Orange, and if you're trying to get to Michigan your only choice is to almost wreck or turn right. Come to think about it there was almost a wreck getting into the place too. Maybe once everyone gets used to the entrances, then they'll realize you can come out at Grant St.

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I gotta say... bic was right, in that standing alone, SoDo isn't groundbreaking compared to some of these other larger urban developments. But what's interesting is that ORHS pretty much controls most of the development from Lake Lucerne to around Kaley. Then, SoDo picks up another light down from there at Grant-- I think it's the next light. Development-wise, it continues the development zone almost all the way to Michigan, whereas before, there was blight in that 2 block area. it really is remarkable.

it really changes your perception of Orlando when you go to Sodo and then head back up Orange to downtown. what a great asset this will become for this town. Now, if only Mills Park could get off the ground...

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....it really changes your perception of Orlando when you go to Sodo and then head back up Orange to downtown.

And when that mid rise ORHS medical/office complex fronting right on Orange Av is complete, it will create even more of an urban feel along Orange south of downtown, in effect "stretching" downtown south of the 408 to Michigan.

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And when that mid rise ORHS medical/office complex fronting right on Orange Av is complete, it will create even more of an urban feel along Orange south of downtown, in effect "stretching" downtown south of the 408 to Michigan.

Then just beyond Michigan, you have Julie's Waterfront and Le Coq Au Vin, two of Orlando's more unique and better restaurants that have lots of character. You also have Cypress Grove Park.

Taking a look at Google Maps, it appears that they are extending Holden Avenue to Millenia Blvd, which will begin to link downtown with Millenia:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...mp;t=h&z=14

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Really???

Because I found just the opposite to be true. I didn't find their food prices to be very low at all.

I know that Wal Mart is considered an ugly word around here, but Super Target is no Super Wal Mart price-wise or diversity of selection wise.

Based solely on first impressions & all the glitz, flash & visual appeal aside, I was disappointed in this place mainly for the reasons of selection & price.

As far as I can tell it's just another Target with the same groceries that have the same average prices as Publix & the rest.

I always thought it was funny that a store as large as Wal-Mart had so few choices. It's been so long since I've been the best example I can think of is their beer isle. Twice as large but with half the selection.

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  • 3 weeks later...

when I first saw those renderings, I was thinking what a pipe dream unrealistic project... shows you how much I know. Orlando is really blessed right now with retail; just think of what's here in terms of unique-type of retail:

We've got SoDo opening up this week-- the Target and TJ Maxx, perhaps the most unique ones in the State or even the US. Reminds me in a way of Dadeland North retail complex- it's like the only thing that comes close for the type of retail that it is.

Besides the Dadeland Station with Target, Best Buy, and a couple more, the Shops at Midtown also in Miami is also very similiar, and I could be totally off but isnt there something like this over at Chanelside in Tampa?

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Besides the Dadeland Station with Target, Best Buy, and a couple more, the Shops at Midtown also in Miami is also very similiar, and I could be totally off but isnt there something like this over at Chanelside in Tampa?

I thought Channelside was solely some restaurants, gift shops, and a cinema on the waterfront.

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Channelside just got a twin condo tower project recently (don't know if it is open yet), but the part of Channelside to which you both are referring can be more likened to Pointe Orlando and a little more. The retail aspect is different than SoDo, but they also have the St. Pete Times Forum right there, trolley service, and the Florida Aquarium. It's a different animal altogether.

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Channelside just got a twin condo tower project recently (don't know if it is open yet), but the part of Channelside to which you both are referring can be more likened to Pointe Orlando and a little more. The retail aspect is different than SoDo, but they also have the St. Pete Times Forum right there, trolley service, and the Florida Aquarium. It's a different animal altogether.

Channelside is more of an entertainment center, like Pointe Orlando or even Citywalk. It actually hurt Ybor City for awhile. It actually lead to the renaming of several blocks of Ybor City to Gaybor, focusing on gay owned clubs and business to bring business back to Ybor. The trolley connects Channelside, Ybor and I believe the convention center or Harbor Island. SoDo I believe is meant to be the center piece of retail and dining on the southside and to spur development surrounding it making a more cohesive neighborhood, like College Park or Baldwin Park.

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I think the color scheme is awesome, as soon as I saw the pictures, I thought very hip, very mod. By colorful I hope you don't mean sending Orlando back in time to the teal, pink and aquas.

I admit, now that it looks like it's more finished, the color scheme has grown on me. It's definitely got a mod look to it that helps it stand out a bit without looking gaudy or harsh. I live three blocks from this thing. I'm tickled pink to see the development that's happening. It also looks like the City is finally taking a bit of an interest in the area south of Gore to Michigan and from I-4 to Orange. The feeling I get as a resident of the area is that no one's really cared to take much of an interest. It's good to see the area come around.

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Do we really need another Mattress Store?????

I dunno, there really aren't a lot of retailers that close to the neighborhood. When we first moved here, our options were the Millenia Mall area or Fashion Square. Ace Hardware does a ton of business and I think the Radioshack just south of Kaley does fairly well too. For so long the retail had moved out of this area. I'm kinda happy with that list of shops and retailers. I'm also in need of a mattress, LOL! There's a lot of housing and and around that area...so I'm thinking it's doable.

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I went to Target this afternoon for the first time and it is a nice looking store (I am going to miss it not having a garden center though). I can assure you that traffic is going to be a real problem until people get used to the lay of the land and some stoplights are added. Getting into SODO is fine and the ramp for Target parking is on the south side of the building and smartly loops up if you drive in from Grant past the front of the store. If you come in from Crystal Lake there is a separate access to the ramp just past the road in front of Target. When leaving, the exit ramp throws you out on Crystal Lake which does not have a stop light on Orange, so I thought I would take the rear exit to Michigan and come back downtown via I4. The problem with this exit is again there is no light so the first person in line of course wants to make a left across Michigan (which is pretty busy) and there is only one lane so a line of traffic builds until the first person can make their left (as happened with me) waiting 5 minutes to make a right on a fairly dead afternoon at 4 PM. I do not understand how their traffic plan got approved.

there's a light at Grant that allows for two left turn lanes. It comes out next to ACE, takes you downtown in a jiffy. I wouldn't take Michigan to head back downtown, but that's just me.

well, it seems everyone's covered the grant exit. I found the garage parking really easy and didn't even think about going out Crystal Lake, but that might be b/c I know the lay of the land better.

When target first approached the city to build on the site, they came with a run of the mill big box site plan. I think what people are forgetting is that this area is part of the Traditional City Overlay and when the developer presented the plan they were told to make it consistent with the traditional city design codes. It didn't turn its back on the neighborhood. If you notice the new developments south of Michigan, they're of a much more suburban nature. Parking in front, buildings set back far from the roadway, etc. Just check out the development around the new Tijuana Flats and the office park behind it.

Anyway, it's much more pedestrian and bike friendly than anything else target has built that wasn't in a CBD. I picked up a flier on the apartments and they are around $100/sf. They have 1, 2, and 3 bedrooms. For me, personally, and in the context of actually living in the neighborhood, I'm really pleased to have had something built like this nearby. The transformation of this area is really fun to watch. Play it again sports moved from their location in the publix/albertson's shopping center to a space next to Lido and Numero Uno (best cuban food in town) restaurants right on Orange Ave. Too bad Deli Planet closed, but the owners had some health issues. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the former Donato's site.

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