Devereaux Meadows redevelopment/riverwalk concept

[JunktionFET]

There was talk a while back of turning Capital Blvd into a more attractive "gateway" into the downtown area. It was supposed to span a decade or more, but the goal was to have an attractive and livable urban corridor leading into downtown (fueled in part by the eventual TTA regional rail North line).

I think this solution is the best, given our present circumstances.

[Jones_]

I'd love to see those maps if you have any way of digitizing them.

This is my question to you or anyone else who wants to remove the Capital Blvd freeway for the sake of connectivity: how do you propose to deal with the railroads? There are two lines and two major freight yards, one on either side of Capital Blvd, and they're both owned by different companies. First off, the railroads aren't going to disappear. CSX and NS won't allow more grade crossings to be built since that's a liability. Not to mention that adding crossings would fly in the face of NC's "Sealed Corridors" initiative to close grade crossings wherever possible. Trenching the tracks would be incredibly expensive (see example: Reno, NV) while elevating them would be costly, create a physical barrier, and contribute to visual blight.

Basically what I'm saying is that the railroads completely cut off Capital Blvd from its surroundings. I have to wonder if putting a friendlier face on that corridor is even possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi

I actually tried to mess around in photoshop so I could bring something to the urban design forums last year...but alas, my skills are poor in that regard.

The railyards can definitely be a huge obstacle. Therefore, most of what I envisioned is possible without any modifications to the railroad tracks. The essential portion is to split Capital at the Peace street exits and run those two one-way segments straight down to Dawson/McDowell. I envisioned getting the State to pay for most of this by showing them how they would free up/create several blocks, some of which the State Government complex could expand into. Peace Street would need raised up some, and Capital lowered, but prior to the WPA creating the bridge at Peace, the topography was approximately like that. Other ideas include a two-lane flyover of Fairview to Halifax connecting near Pilot Mill and flyover Blount to Carson to connect Hayes Barton to Mordecai (as opposed to the Wade Ave flyover discussed 10-15 years ago), bring Johnson accross newly divided Capital Blvd., and bring Harrington back out to Peace (like it was until the 60's). Eventually I would connect Wade to Capital with a signal and signalize West and Wade with improvments to West so it functions more like Glenwood South traffic wise, connect Lane to West and Glenwood, and connect all the streets of Glenwood neighborhood to West (railroad allowing) and maybe even the newly divided Capital (sure that would have some opposition). I will try to at least get a decent drawing in pdf for folks to look at. Thanks for hanging in for my long-winded response.

[Justin6882]

WRAL Story

This is an area downtown that could really really use some work. It is probably the number one corridor into downtown (especially for all the N. Raleighites) and it would be nice if it was a little more welcoming. Here's hoping to something great in the future for that site.

RALEIGH, N.C. -- Sixteen acres of land sit in the shadow of a downtown district on the cusp of re-creation.

Located at the corner of Peace Street and Capital Boulevard, the undeveloped city-owned property is considered prime real estate in downtown Raleigh. It is not up for sale -- at least not yet.

The real estate is currently home to Raleigh's sanitation fleet, but city sources tell WRAL that they have had interest from potential investors as recently as last week who are ready to pay high dollar amounts to develop the property.

[pdxheel]

Is this the area where a developer(s) suggested that we uncover a stream and build a river walk? I remember this from a thread a while back. If developed properly this area will tie in nicely to Glenwood South.

[orulz]

I would envision something like the Midtown Square redeveopment in Charlotte.

This area is desperately in need of transportation improvements, however. A lot of people here seem to want the Capital freeway removed and the Dawson/McDowell freeway extended at least as far as Peace Street. That would be nice as a long-term goal, but in the short term, I think they could use:

1. A full-movement intersection at West & Wade

2. Reconfiguration of the Peace / Capital interchange into signalized T-intersections

3. Better connectivity to Glenwood - there used to be a grade crossing at Cleveland Street; maybe the street could be tunneled under the tracks instead.

[orulz]

I also noticed that the article mentions the block south of Progress II and east of the old Convention Center (the block where the Lincoln Theater is now.) I think this would be a great location for something along the lines of EpiCentre in Charlotte- smaller in scale, probably, but similar in concept. The article indicates that the city may be just about ready to sell, but I wonder if they won't hold off until at least the RFPs on sites 2 & 3 of the Cultural/Convention district are out.

What do you think?

[Subway Scoundrel]

For those who don't remember (I think this is the entire Triangle board), this is where Deveroux Meadow was. It was the minor league ball park where the Raleigh team played. One of my best friends father was drafted in the late 1940's and the stories about this park are great. The best being Carl Yastrzemski came to play against the Raleigh team when he was very young minor leaguer and rattled the fences showing his future greatness.

I only remember peering into the park through a chain link fence before destruction as a kid. It was a wood park and was falling down. I do think that whole area will be rebuilt in time, but the area across the Peace Street behind GlenSouth should be built first.

But wouldn

[avery]

This 16 acres seems like a good land for development. Its proximity to GlenSo, Seaboard Station and the State Gov't Center adds to its popularity potential. I hope if a project does happen here, it is large enough in scale to make a statement. I guess anything would be a plus than what is currently there. Something here needs to make an impact. It could spark a renewed interest in the blighted areas up Capital Blvd. This area is dire need of redevelopment. It lies in such a good location. Capital Blvd just outside of downtown is blah and it is so close to everything, including Five Points. This could really add some connectivity to the city's booming areas.

[avery]

But wouldn

[Justin6882]

It would be awesome though. Maybe NCSU could play baseball games there too. The outfield would have some good views of downtown.

Thats a good idea - but they just completed a total overhaul of the on campus Doak Field at State - plus I think too many of our sporting venues are off campus. I'd like to see one stay on.

[avery]

Thats a good idea - but they just completed a total overhaul of the on campus Doak Field at State - plus I think too many of our sporting venues are off campus. I'd like to see one stay on.

It could be NCSU Softball Field then. Reynolds is still used by the girls isn't it?

[Transplant]

I like the idea of redeveloping this area, as well as most of the property that lines Capital up through Wake Forest Rd.

Considering the areas near Glenwood South that haven't been developed, rushing to sell this property isn't a good idea. Lets continue the momentum in GS, before spreading it out.

[avery]

WRAL mentioned that there is a sale pending on a lot on Cabarrus Street for mixed-use development. Anyone know anything?

[Justin6882]

that lot is definitely ready for something. I hope they can keep Lincoln Theater there though, and if not include space for it in the new development. That is like a block from my house, so I'm getting really anxious about Site 1 and now this project. I can't wait to be able to walk to the movies (other than IMAX)

[ncwebguy]

The 16 acres between West and Capital contain the creek that eventually passes under Capital and goes along the old Harris Wholesale (soon to be self-storage) building. The city would be better served to have several smaller salt barns than just that one and DOT's near the fairgrounds. It would be neat to see midrise buildings similar to the Cotton Mill on the northeast corner of Peace and Capitol. Along West north of Peace, there is a taxicab dispatch and some auto parts supply warehouses, businesses that don't mind being right against the train tracks.

The "site 1a" near Lincoln Theater would be good to compliment site 1 and extend the entertainment district further. It would be nice to incorporate the Pope House, but that doesn't look like it will happen here. Lincoln Theater was the top movie house for the African-American community. Naming something after the president who freed the slaves was not the norm in the south.

With the parking deck to the north and site 1/BoA to the west, they could go pretty tall there and still "step down" towards the neighborhood east of Blount and Person.

[ChiefJoJo]

The "site 1a" near Lincoln Theater would be good to compliment site 1 and extend the entertainment district further. It would be nice to incorporate the Pope House, but that doesn't look like it will happen here. Lincoln Theater was the top movie house for the African-American community. Naming something after the president who freed the slaves was not the norm in the south.

Here's the site next to site one with the Pope House. I know it's kinda in the middle of the parking lot, but it's a raleigh historic property, so what the chance it could be moved to a new site? I hope Lincoln Theatre stays and they build something really nice there--perhaps mid-rise mixed use building with retail and condos.

[Jones_]

Orulz has a good point about the need for some imemdiate transportation improvements near old Deveraux Meadows. I have always thought realigning Harrington with the exit ramp made sense too. Making West/Wade a fully functional intersection is important to not allowing this property to become something of a single entrance site after any redevelopment. I always envisioned a grocery store farther south on Harrington so for this site I think some complimentary mid density housing with some corner stores thrown in would round out a complete urban neighborhood from Hillsborough St at Snoopys all the way to Peace at West.

[dmccall]

A lot of people here seem to want the Capital freeway removed and the Dawson/McDowell freeway extended at least as far as Peace Street.

Can you elaborate on this? I am confused.

[orulz]

Can you elaborate on this? I am confused.

Woops. Typo.

I meant that a lot of people here (as in, on UrbanPlanet) want the Capital Blvd freeway removed, and the McDowell / Dawson one-way pair extened to Peace Street or beyond.

[Transplant]

Woops. Typo.

I meant that a lot of people here (as in, on UrbanPlanet) want the Capital Blvd freeway removed, and the McDowell / Dawson one-way pair extened to Peace Street or beyond.

This idea (paired one ways in place of the freeway) might be nice if only there weren't train tracks running right where the eastbound lanes would be.

[Jones_]

The idea is to sepatate Captials lanes at Lane street and run them north/south to approximately where the Peace St ramps are.....no more Capital bridge over Peace....more land available for dense development (eliminating grade separated interchanges does this).....generally this is intended to complete the urban gridwork and tie together Blount St to Glenwood South along Peace.....lots of details I know, put Capital was clearly built up there and some raising of Peace near the sanitation department is necessary but that would be needed for any talk of the Pigeon House Greenway to actually work anyway....you get a bigger, more walkable downtown in this area as a result.

[Transplant]

As long as there are trains running through DT Raleigh, I just don't see an alignment change. the cost to rework the interchanges, and route McDowell to where it would need to go would never create the amount of development to warrant such a change.

I think Dense development could go along Peace, even where the interchange is. That would help with connectivity.

[Jones_]

The tracks are not such a huge obstacle....if sold off to private developers, I can see upwards of 4 acres being improved or made available....maybe $10 million in offset money....also there is the ultimate need for State government to expand, and I have always thought the idea could be sold to the State with the idea that these parcels are adjacent to existing State buildings (i.e. the State keeps them to build on in exchange for paying for the improvments) and would link nicely to the TTA stop...without such an arrangement, I don't much improvement along Peace beyond the sort of thing that Jersey Mikes inhabits.....downtown is hurting for solidly built out East/West corridors....MLK/Western will never resemble anything beyond a suburban road and its interchange eats up alot of land as well for very little gain...Peace has the potential to be much better imo.

[ChiefJoJo]

As long as there are trains running through DT Raleigh, I just don't see an alignment change. the cost to rework the interchanges, and route McDowell to where it would need to go would never create the amount of development to warrant such a change.

I agree. Sometimes you guys underestimate what it would take to do some of these projects you come up with. Many are good ideas, but would be too costly to implement.... two RR bridges, multiple business relocations, etc., for not much benefit IMO.

Here's a map of the area.

[ncwebguy]

Peace street is my east/west connector, usually going from my house to Cameron Village. It is not a good *pedestrian* east/west, but is an efficient vehicle one. The next closest is Hillsborough/Morgan/Edenton, but it is hard to catch all the lights.

Jones and Lane is a good west/east pair. For the TTA station, it would be cool if Lane kept going east just north of the 42nd street parking lot, through the auto repair shop near the train wye and connected to Glenwood just north of 222 and linking to west Lane. Since 222 is approved and underway, I don't see this happening. North street dramatically changes elevation from Glenwood through West to Harrington. It is walkable, but not plesant.

The 16 acres north of Peace would be a managable walk to the State Govt. TTA station, if you cut through that car wash. LOL