South Light Rail Transit

[Norm2]

Wish I could go, but I have class for 3 hours starting at 6. Please give us all of the info when you get back!

[uptownliving]

The Presentation they showed at tonights meeting is online. You can view it here:

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/R...esentations.htm

As part of the presentation they showed the latest rendering for the Trade St/Arena station. This will be the main station for the line downtown. It is at about 10% design stage so what you see pictured on slide #9 could very well change. Also they detail the construction schedule as part of this presentation.

[vandiver49]

Excellect comments appatone!!!

I have no idea why people are under the impression that adding rail transit is some communist plot to get people out of their cars. I think in the end they oppose it b/c it requires you to use that most basic form of transportation...WALKING!!

[monsoon]

Nice presentation. Will be interesting to see how much that schedule slips considering that CATS still does not have a full funding letter from the Feds.

[dubone]

Excellect comments appatone!!!

I have no idea why people are under the impression that adding rail transit is some communist plot to get people out of their cars.  I think in the end they oppose it b/c it requires you to use that most basic form of transportation...WALKING!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If God didn't want us to drive, why did he put all those flat lines of asphalt all over?

After reading through those presentations, i have a couple of thoughts:

1) The Trolley program really was a waste of money... why in the world are they demolishing the poles and wires and landscaping and all that.... why didn't they just skip the curbs and fences that were going to be torn down to build the second track? Why didn't they put the poles out further so they could be used by both systems? I have always been a trolley supporter, but i guess i just assumed that they had always made plans to reused stuff like the poles and all that.

2) I REALLY hope that what they pictured on slide 9 is NOT the final design of the Arena station. How can 800K build a massive mansion with bells and whistles and some of the most expensive land in the city.... but somehow can only build something that looks like one of those metal trailer-park carports when the govt gets involved?

[Neo]

2) I REALLY hope that what they pictured on slide 9 is NOT the final design of the Arena station.  How can 800K build a massive mansion with bells and whistles and some of the most expensive land in the city.... but somehow can only build something that looks like one of those metal trailer-park carports when the govt gets involved?

Ya know, it's like that with anything the government does it seems. It's one of the reasons we're in so much debt. It's not that the government spends too much money necessarily, it's the fact that the people who do services for the government try to squeeze as much as they can out. Anything the government touches, it costs too much and looks like crap when it's done. Ever heard the story of how the government bought a bunch of regular hammers, I think they were ~$50 or so each? I'm talking a regular hammer that one could go to Home Depot and buy for $5.

[mjtinmemphis]

Has anyone heard what the ridership projections are for the 9.5 mile south line??? Is this a project that Charlotte can really benefit from or is a token toy for boosters. I love Charlotte and its a great city full of potential. IMO, Charlotte doesn't have the density to build such a system and make it work. Portland, St. Louis, Minneapolis and Denver are all models for lrt because of good planning and built in density. I don't get the same feeling for Charlotte.

Does anyone else in Charlotte feel the same way that I do?

[Norm2]

Not really, Charlotte is rezoning everything to b higher density along the rail line, plus dense devlopments are slowly leaving South End and are creeping further southward along the rail line. We may not havt the densint today, but it is coming and we are planning for it. Nothing happens over night, great cities werent made in a day, neither is Charlotte.

[mjtinmemphis]

I can see that. They are trying to get a jump start on things. 20 years from now charlotte metro will probably be pushing 3 to 4 million residence. If they do it right, Charlotte can become a dynamic regional mecca for the southeast.

I can see where your coming from now.

[monsoon]

There is an interesting comment in the Observer's editorial section this week. There is certainly some merit to this discussion is if you eliminate the pain for commuters then you greatly reduce the incentives to move into the CBD.

The light rail line will be a boon to uptown employers. Workers in Pineville and South Carolinians who would never consider a job uptown because of parking fees now have their problem solved, courtesy of us city taxpayers.

Light rail will also lead to an onrush of city dwellers fleeing south toward lower taxes, better schools and safer shopping areas, again courtesy of us city taxpayers. If they already work uptown, they can move from the city and commute via rail.

The mayor and City Council borrowed the idea of mass transit from Northern cities, but they failed to take into account that many of those cities levied payroll taxes.

Rodney Morris Jr.

[atlrvr]

I think that anyone who moves into the CBD is trying to maintain an urban lifestyle.....their are other factors beyond commute time that they consider. Also, since all south line stations are still in Charlotte, someone would still need to drive a decent distance to take advantage of the line (I'm sure some will)....however, I don't see them losing tax revenue due to it......In fact, a townhome is non-profitble to the city if it is under $175k, and a house is not profitable under about $300k, so let them move.......we don't need further drain on our tax base.

[ElricSeven]

I think that anyone who moves into the CBD is trying to maintain an urban lifestyle.....their are other factors beyond commute time that they consider.  Also, since all south line stations are still in Charlotte, someone would still need to drive a decent distance to take advantage of the line (I'm sure some will)....however, I don't see them losing tax revenue due to it......In fact, a townhome is non-profitble to the city if it is under $175k, and a house is not profitable under about $300k, so let them move.......we don't need further drain on our tax base.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And it still takes time to commute. The light rail isn't a matter transmitter or anything. You've got to sit on the train. The only real savings you will remove from the option of living Uptown is the cost of driving and parking Uptown. But, of course, you still have to pay for light rail and you still will probably have to live in a townhouse close to the rail line. You still have the tradeoff of commute time vs. cost per square foot.

I'll go with less commute time any day.

[uptownliving]

In President Bush's 2006 Budget released today is a line item for $30M for the South LRT. As a side note the FTA's budget increased in this proposed budget...this bucks the trend of cutting you will hear in the media.

[dubone]

That is great news and hopefully a trend that Republican politics is shifting away from being anti-transit. I think many of the transit rail projects are in red states, so that may have helped a bit.

[monsoon]

That is great news and hopefully a trend that Republican politics is shifting away from being anti-transit.  I think many of the transit rail projects are in red states, so that may have helped a bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It should be noted that Bush's budget is a "suggestion" to congress. Because of the lack of money it contains deep cuts of to popular programs where there is going to be a bloodbath before it is over. All the money is going to Iraq and the Military so there isn't much left for domestic programs.

What Charlotte needs in order for the LRT to begin official construction, is for Congress to approved the $190M needed for full funding. Without it, the timetable for project completion can't begin. Its already 6-12 months behind schedule. Bush's line item of just $30M where $190 is required, is disturbing.

If CATS fails to secure funding for the LRT, do you think they will continue to move forward on the N. Line?

[dubone]

I think even if the South line is delayed and delayed and delayed, it will still be built within five years. I think they will still do the north line eventually, too, but not before the south line. (they may of course do some phases concurrently).

If the South line is scuttled altogether, all the rail lines would be doomed, including the north line. The south line went first because it has always had the highest likelihood of passing through the hoops.

[uptownliving]

It should be noted that Bush's budget is a "suggestion" to congress.  Because of the lack of money it contains deep cuts of to popular programs where there is going to be a bloodbath before it is over.    All the money is going to Iraq and the Military so there isn't much left for domestic programs. 

What Charlotte needs in order for the LRT to begin official construction, is for Congress to approved the $190M needed for full funding.  Without it, the timetable for project completion can't begin.  Its already 6-12  months behind schedule.    Bush's line item of just $30M where $190 is required, is disturbing.

If CATS fails to secure funding for the LRT, do you think they will continue to move forward on the N. Line?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way it works is that CATS will not get the money in one large sum. It will be doled out over a number of years. So while you may be disturbed with the $30M, CATS is happy with it as it means the South LRT construction will continue. Congress does have the final say... but it is highly likely they will approve a 2006 budget that is good for CATS. Expect more good news in a FTA news conference today.

[atlrvr]

Not to mention that Charlotte has already received at least $60M of the needed $190M from the feds before this announcement. It'll get built. THe bigger concern is that AMTRAK is in danger of being scrapped altogether as well as contined work on the SEHSR. This could jeapordize the multi-modal station downtown.....that would be sad news.

[uptownliving]

It is actually $55M that FTA is recommending for 2006 for CATS South LRT....the Full Funding Grant Agreement should be going before the Congress for a 60 Day Comment period very soon.

[monsoon]

It's done. True that it is $55M, the Observer has just reported it.

Feds say yes to Charlotte Light Rail

Note that nothing happens until Congress approves it. Considering the difficulties in the gudget this year, it is not a forgone conclusion it will happen.

From the article.

If congress approves the $55 million appropriation, the federal government will have given or promised CATS $123.5 million. Next year, CATS is expected to receive its final payment of $69.4 million.

[uptownliving]

I don't think that Congress is going to cut the budget any further than Bush has proposed...in fact they have balked and said he has cut too much....so I am not worried about CATS getting their money.

[monsoon]

Charlotte was indeed fortunate to be included on this very exclusive list. I've posted the complete details of the funding in this thread. I am convinced that one of the reasons the money was alotted to Charlotte was the fact there is a local source of funding. (1/2 percent sales tax). Without this commitment from the taxpayers here I doubt Charlotte would have made the final cut. Hopefully congress will approve the money and they can start to actually build it.

[uptownliving]

Finally Diane got it right...for today's Charlotte Observer article:::

"Tober plans to hold a ground-breaking ceremony late this month, even before congressional committees complete their routine 60-day review. The committees do not vote but may comment."

[monsoon]

A Nice Article on the Charlotte System

Returning to the Rails

[nyxmike]

I know this is slightly off topic, but it deals with transit... does anyone know when I-77 south of the city is suppose to be widened (HOV extension?), as well as I-485 from I-77 to Johnston Road (I think it should really be 3 lanes atleast to Independence Boulevard interchange)?