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Kia's Impact

ATLman1

By ATLman1
in Columbus

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aboutmetro Hamlet

aboutmetro

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At this point, I see Kia as the link for O-A and Lagrange area creating an I-85 metro. Insider info says Columbus' I-185 dead end is a hinderence to recruiting. Real estate and urban development economics say that Harris County's 2+ acre minimum for residential development prevents densities from developing.

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ATLman1 Hamlet

ATLman1

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At this point, I see Kia as the link for O-A and Lagrange area creating an I-85 metro. Insider info says Columbus' I-185 dead end is a hinderence to recruiting. Real estate and urban development economics say that Harris County's 2+ acre minimum for residential development prevents densities from developing.
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gah Whistle-Stop

gah

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Oh! So were talking 100 miles of continuous development. Is a light rail, or some form of mass transit proposed between the two cities? Are there any INCREASED fears of the impact this type of sprawl will have on the region, especially considering the already strained water resource.
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aboutmetro Hamlet

aboutmetro

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There is a proposal for rail between Columbus and Atlanta (and between other 2dtier cities and Atlanta) -- but it is, at present a pipe dream. Think that Atlanta-Macon is the first on tap -- but that seems to be stymied. Doubt that rail will be in place any time in the next 25 years. Furthermore, the proposed route is from Columbus to Griffin (east of the I-185/ 85 corridor) which seems to make less sense to me than using the median of the existing interstate.

The stretch of I-85 from H-J to Newnan (30 miles) is already continuous sprawl. The interstate is being being widened to 6 (8?) lanes almost all the way to the Kia plant -- which will be built up quickly. Likewise, I-185 in Troup County is already being built up (not sprawl of the Atlanta type -- yet) Thus, of the 100 miles, there is really only about 20-25 miles (thru Harris County) that is not -- as yet -- facing imminent explosive growth thanx to Kia.

The drought may slow the growth rate. But I suspect that the political pressure to solve the problem (new reservoirs, etc) will be such as to mandate a solution in the long-term.

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j.midtown Whistle-Stop

j.midtown

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Oh! So were talking 100 miles of continuous development. Is a light rail, or some form of mass transit proposed between the two cities? Are there any INCREASED fears of the impact this type of sprawl will have on the region, especially considering the already strained water resource.
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gah Whistle-Stop

gah

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The Republicans in power in Georgia are staunchly anti-transit (in part because of road-builder and developer contributions) and are blocking efforts to develop commuter rail in the state. Since the drought issues have reached a boiling point, legislators and the governor and making noise about fast-tracking new reservoirs; but there is no possibility (see special interest dollars) there will be any effort to manage sprawl and promote smart growth practices.

[/quote

At risk of sounding like a pollyanna, it may be "different" this time. I have the sense that the "developers" (and, hence, the politicos) are starting to panic at prospect of long-term adverse consequences of drought on Atlanta and its perception as a world-class city. Realization that there IS a natural limit to Atlanta growth -- not geographic boundaries but availability of water. Thus, increasing serious interest in resolving water problem and managing sprawl. As sprawl slows/managed in Atlanta, natural tendency of developers will be to turn to outlying 2d tier cities. That is already happening in Columbus (ie, Columbus Park Xing) and I assume Macon as well. As these developers transform from parochial Atlanta-centric to more expansive Georgia-centric orientation, they will give a political boost to rapid transit.

I am not saying that it will happen soon. But it does seem that we are closer to beginning a serious push in that direction than previously. Politicos -- whether Repubs or Demos -- are tied to special interest groups. Thus, who is in power is irrelevant. Unless and until it makes economic sense to diffuse the growth currently centralized in Atlanta out to the 2d (and 3d) tier cities, it aint gonna happen.

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Florida Megalopolis

Florida

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Back to KIA's impact, this thread doesn't mention it, but has a number been set for the amount of jobs this will generate? Also, how many of you plan to own/drive a KIA when this thing is complete. I'm not fond of KIA as a car manufacturer, or Hyundai for that matter, and I'm just curious where you all stand now that a plant is being built in your region. If it were coming here, I'd turn a more favorable opinion on them, I'm wondering if any of you would do the same.

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gah Whistle-Stop

gah

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Back to KIA's impact, this thread doesn't mention it, but has a number been set for the amount of jobs this will generate? Also, how many of you plan to own/drive a KIA when this thing is complete. I'm not fond of KIA as a car manufacturer, or Hyundai for that matter, and I'm just curious where you all stand now that a plant is being built in your region. If it were coming here, I'd turn a more favorable opinion on them, I'm wondering if any of you would do the same.
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j.midtown Whistle-Stop

j.midtown

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At risk of sounding like a pollyanna, it may be "different" this time. I have the sense that the "developers" (and, hence, the politicos) are starting to panic at prospect of long-term adverse consequences of drought on Atlanta and its perception as a world-class city. Realization that there IS a natural limit to Atlanta growth -- not geographic boundaries but availability of water. Thus, increasing serious interest in resolving water problem and managing sprawl. As sprawl slows/managed in Atlanta, natural tendency of developers will be to turn to outlying 2d tier cities. That is already happening in Columbus (ie, Columbus Park Xing) and I assume Macon as well. As these developers transform from parochial Atlanta-centric to more expansive Georgia-centric orientation, they will give a political boost to rapid transit.
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j.midtown Whistle-Stop

j.midtown

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Speaking of Kia's impact, if you haven't seen the site, it is simply amazing. The first time I drove by on 85 I was stunned by the site work - it's huge. Mind you, I have seen non-urban auto plants before, but the sheer size of the prepped parcel is an awesome sight as you drive by. The activity is increasing steadily as the foundations and infrastructure are being added.

The approaches to the new overpass/exit have been built up, but no structural work has begun on it yet.

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gah Whistle-Stop

gah

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Last off-topic comment here; Columbus is hardly in position to siphon off (as it were) metro Atlanta's growth due to water issues since Columbus is served by the same primary water source, i.e. the Chattahoochee. What has been happening in the City of Atlanta is increasing density which will allow the continued growth of Atlanta business and population due to the advantages the city offers, but with less impact.
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Florida Megalopolis

Florida

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Costs more to build up than out. Increased density does not mean increased water availability. Growth of business/population will slow as costs rise and water becomes scarcer. Thus, if development in Atlanta becomes more costly/risky, then the possibility increases that focus will shift to 2d-tier cities. So what would envision is not so much a a siphoning-off of growth scenario, as a redirection of capital scenario. based on market forces
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j.midtown Whistle-Stop

j.midtown

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Costs more to build up than out. Increased density does not mean increased water availability. Growth of business/population will slow as costs rise and water becomes scarcer. Thus, if development in Atlanta becomes more costly/risky, then the possibility increases that focus will shift to 2d-tier cities. So what would envision is not so much a a siphoning-off of growth scenario, as a redirection of capital scenario. based on market forces
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gah Whistle-Stop

gah

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Actually dense development is more water efficient than sprawling suburbs; which has more impact, a single-family home on an landscaped acre lot with a septic tank or a high-rise condo on the city sewer?

As to shifting of capital, do you mean with regards to development/construction or general business? Development needs demand to support it; build 2M s.f. of office space in Macon and it's going to sit empty. Business capital will generally flow to where there is demand, opportunity and resources. Atlanta, by virtue of its size, has built-in advantages over second tier cities. It also has advantages due to the international airport, the interstate, railroads and the nexus of all those transportation modes. Of course, other cities (some second tier) have unique advantages that Atlanta doesn't; e.g. Savannah and Mobile have ports.

Is it your position that Atlanta's natural economic momentum should be constrained by limiting access to water in favor of artificially promoting rural economies downstream?

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