Town Point Park Facelift...

[br0guy]

That was in the 60s and this is in a new century. If African American(<<<<which i think is segregating in itself because that would only be true if you were born in Africa) can't move on then this issue will never correct itself. Thats with everything in life. Business decisions are not based on if its a racial issue but about revenue. I really don't think that the construction dates were set up to push Aframfest out. I do think that alot of people are just looking for reasons to throw the card out. If this country is ever going to heal it takes all sides to move forward and not hold on to the past, but learn from the past.

Wow... that was just ignorant (ha ha). Move on yes... with a blind eye, no. I guess we're officially off-topic now...

[lil-bear]

Thats a BS come-back... Afram fest is segregated?. I think you mean predominently African-American. Using your rationale I can say Harborfest is segregated (wtf?)... and your right, everything doesn't have to have racial undertones to it, but it seems like when anybody does "pull the race card" (as its been termed) there is somebody there to just dismiss it, rather than ask why do you feel this way? Its barely been a full generation since the civil rights movement in this country... granted, we've made great strides since then, but you still have people who lived under those conditions in the 60s who are still very sensitive when it comes to topics such as this.

First of all, for an event to have a title that purposely makes it seem like an event for part of the population is self segregating. The entire topic of celebration for AfrAm is the African American culture. It's main appeal is for the African-American percentage of the population.

Harborfest is for everyone, it is for celebrating the harbor. Not for the appeal for the white population.

Every year that I attend Harborfest, it is a diverse mixture of cultures, races, and interests.

The race card is pulled often by our own city counselman Paul Riddick.

Wasn't it him that said that the reason he was hit with a fine for having his grass growing too tall was because he was black?

He is supposed to be a leader for the black community, not a laughing stock.

A generation is about 20 years, so we have actually past 2 generations since the civil rights movement.

Today African-Americans have all the same opportunities as anyone else. Everyone no matter what color they are can be sucessful and achieve great things. It's all in how each and every person applys themselves.

African-American Examples: Oprah Winfrey, Janet Jackson, Mariah Carrey, Aurthur Ashe, Venus & Serena Williams, Tiger Woods, Colon Powell, Condaleeza Rice, Barrack Obama, and on, and on, and on............

Yes, racism still exists, on all sides of the issue...................

[urbanlife]

wow, all this over a minor renovation. 8 months to renovate this means something will be canceled, regardless what it is. My question would be which festival brings more money in to the city? And I dont say that in any negative way, but that was probably something that was brought up. When I lived there, I always remembered Harborfest was much more of a regional festival...one of the few celebrations that would get people from VB to actually visit the city.

I mean in no way am I saying that sometimes cities dont do things that short change a race, but in this case, I just dont see it. I see a maintenance upgrade that would take 8 months. Though it would make more sense if they worked in a way that would allow no festival to be canceled, but maybe given more limited space.

But on a plus side, I think this is a good upgrade for the waterfront...now only if they could figure out what to do with Waterside. I still think a Marketplace and local restaurants would be a good idea, but that is a different topic and we probably shouldnt go on too many off topics.

[brikkman]

That would've been nice... If you look at older pictures of Lafayette/City Park it looked more inviting. It would be nice to have something like Audubon Park in New Orleans which is attached to the zoo as well.

They should have just waited and did waterside while they were at it. That way, everyone has a few new things to look forward to. The only people who use TPP is the DT residences and people who come for festivals. Other than that, you have a few people running and tourist snapping photos here and there (if the weather is nice). If you added waterside to the list, I think they have something to report on. If that's all they needed to do to the park, I would have done it for 4.5 mil....

[NSUREDD]

It would be nice if they could remodel Waterside and the park at the same time. Maybe open Waterside up to the park, it is so dark in there now.

[VAGATOR]

It would be nice if they could remodel Waterside and the park at the same time. Maybe open Waterside up to the park, it is so dark in there now.

Agree, but that would taken too much forethought.

[br0guy]

First of all, for an event to have a title that purposely makes it seem like an event for part of the population is self segregating. The entire topic of celebration for AfrAm is the African American culture. It's main appeal is for the African-American percentage of the population.

Harborfest is for everyone, it is for celebrating the harbor. Not for the appeal for the white population.

Every year that I attend Harborfest, it is a diverse mixture of cultures, races, and interests.

The race card is pulled often by our own city counselman Paul Riddick.

Wasn't it him that said that the reason he was hit with a fine for having his grass growing too tall was because he was black?

He is supposed to be a leader for the black community, not a laughing stock.

A generation is about 20 years, so we have actually past 2 generations since the civil rights movement.

Today African-Americans have all the same opportunities as anyone else. Everyone no matter what color they are can be sucessful and achieve great things. It's all in how each and every person applys themselves.

African-American Examples: Oprah Winfrey, Janet Jackson, Mariah Carrey, Aurthur Ashe, Venus & Serena Williams, Tiger Woods, Colon Powell, Condaleeza Rice, Barrack Obama, and on, and on, and on............

Yes, racism still exists, on all sides of the issue...................

I was actually referring to a biblical generation which is much longer than 20 years... do we all really have the same opportunities? This crosses racial lines into socioeconomic issues. I'm gonna let this one die and call a truce Lil Cub I doubt anyone wants to see two Green Run Alums trading back and forth on this issue any longer.

[lil-bear]

I was actually referring to a biblical generation which is much longer than 20 years... do we all really have the same opportunities? This crosses racial lines into socioeconomic issues. I'm gonna let this one die and call a truce Lil Cub I doubt anyone wants to see two Green Run Alums trading back and forth on this issue any longer.

No problem, but I Graduated From Tallwood not Green Run.

[br0guy]

No problem, but I Graduated From Tallwood not Green Run.

Well, that explains everyth... just kidding

[br0guy]

Are there any renderings of what the park is gonna look like?

[Glassoul]

Are there any renderings of what the park is gonna look like?

yeah, festevents website has them.

[scm]

I was in the World Trade Center yesterday, overlooking the Park. They aren't wasting ANY time getting started. Quite a few trees are already down.

[lil-bear]

I think that it is great the the city is giving TTP a facelift. But what about other parks in the city?

After TTP is completed, the city needs to turn it's attention to Lafayette Park.

It's one of oldest in the city and it would be great for some of the victorian charm to be brought back to the park.

They can leave the ball feilds and such, but give it a good facelift.

[brikkman]

I think that it is great the the city is giving TTP a facelift. But what about other parks in the city?

After TTP is completed, the city needs to turn it's attention to Lafayette Park.

It's one of oldest in the city and it would be great for some of the victorian charm to be brought back to the park.

They can leave the ball feilds and such, but give it a good facelift.

The design was a waste of money if you ask me. I could have provide them with that. The thrill of it will die out quick and it will be similar to before. They should have concentrated on how to keep people looming the area. Ummm possibly doing something with waterside at the same time.

[lil-bear]

TTP overview from Festevents

Here is the overview from festevents.

[virginia pe]

The design was a waste of money if you ask me. I could have provide them with that. The thrill of it will die out quick and it will be similar to before. They should have concentrated on how to keep people looming the area. Ummm possibly doing something with waterside at the same time.

The problem with Town Point Park is that its site is too small. The various stakeholders had different visions for the park - a meeting space, a concert venue, an iconic fountain, a riverfront promenade with vendors and entertainers, an attractive "front door" for the Spirit of Norfolk at the Otter Berth with parking for busses and automobiles, an open lawn for sunbathing and ultimate frisbee games, a shaded, peaceful place for a stroll, etc. There is simply not enough room to do all of that well, so the city tried to give everyone a little bit of what they wanted.

Now let's pretend that you are a city planner. What would you have done? Would you attempt a multi-use space like the city chose? If so, what would you add or delete from the current plan? Or would you dedicate this limited area to one or two uses? Which use would you have picked? And how would you have placated the other stakeholders who do not get their wishes granted?

Let's assume that Waterside is not going to be torn down, and that Waterside Drive/Boush Street is not going to be relocated or reduced. In other words, you are limited to the space that is there today.

[lil-bear]

I think the promenade on the sea wall should be extended all the way to Harbor Park. As it is now, I think that it ends behind the Dominion Tower parking garage.

Maybe in the future, the seawall could be extended the other way to the Scott's Creek/The Hague bridge. And further on the around Fort Norfolk all the way to the Midtown Tunnel.

In essence, that would be expanding accessability to TPP.

[Telmnstr]

More important is fencing it in, so you can be sure to charge $30 a head for any event, hosted by taxpayer funded arts groups on taxpayer funded land, remodeled with taxpayer money.

Park closes at sunset to keep the taxed-out out!

[mistermetaj]

I think the promenade on the sea wall should be extended all the way to Harbor Park. As it is now, I think that it ends behind the Dominion Tower parking garage.

Maybe in the future, the seawall could be extended the other way to the Scott's Creek/The Hague bridge. And further on the around Fort Norfolk all the way to the Midtown Tunnel.

In essence, that would be expanding accessability to TPP.

I agree, however, I say keep Waterside, it has a charming look. We just need to change up its use. I would LOVE to see the DT garage knocked down, and the sheraton completely knocked down. THEN...we could get rid of those hideous pedestrian bridges across Waterside Dr. as well.

Why GT was built in that area makes me really upset. The tallest in Norfolk is so out of place from the rest of the skyline and is hindering the park expansion. Nice planning...They should have just made it twice as tall and put it on the BoA site and knocked down that 70s monstrosity.

[Sky06]

[urbanlife]

They should have just made it twice as tall and put it on the BoA site and knocked down that 70s monstrosity.

Actually I really like that building....sure, about half the cities in the US and probably a fourth of them in the world have a buiding like this built by SOM, but I always think of Norfolk when I see it.

Granted, if you were to argue about the poor use of site, then we would be on the same page. BoA is a beautiful building, but it doesnt need to be sitting on that much land.

I so wish Norfolk would of just intergrated its new buildings in with the old ones instead of doing the Corbusier clean slate approach, but that is another topic.

[mistermetaj]

Actually I really like that building....sure, about half the cities in the US and probably a fourth of them in the world have a buiding like this built by SOM, but I always think of Norfolk when I see it.

Granted, if you were to argue about the poor use of site, then we would be on the same page. BoA is a beautiful building, but it doesnt need to be sitting on that much land.

I so wish Norfolk would of just intergrated its new buildings in with the old ones instead of doing the Corbusier clean slate approach, but that is another topic.

Unfortunately, 60s urban renewal gave us 60s and 70s buildings. Hence why I hate the buildings on Main St. (even though a few were built in the 90s, but they might as well have been from the 60s).

As for BoA, I can't stand the sight of the tower. It is looks like a dirty white version of the Richmond city hall which IMO is one of the ugliest buildings I have ever seen.

You are also right the SOM has put up tons of buildings just like that, esp in NYC, and a lot of architectural critics on other NYC message boards can't stand them as well.

The land use is also pitiful, so for me overall, it's just a terrible building the Norfolk skyline could do without. It blocks too much of the older more charming low rises from view from the water and leaves a bland taste in my mouth when I see it.

[mlsimons]

Unfortunately, 60s urban renewal gave us 60s and 70s buildings. Hence why I hate the buildings on Main St. (even though a few were built in the 90s, but they might as well have been from the 60s).

As for BoA, I can't stand the sight of the tower. It is looks like a dirty white version of the Richmond city hall which IMO is one of the ugliest buildings I have ever seen.

You are also right the SOM has put up tons of buildings just like that, esp in NYC, and a lot of architectural critics on other NYC message boards can't stand them as well.

The land use is also pitiful, so for me overall, it's just a terrible building the Norfolk skyline could do without. It blocks too much of the older more charming low rises from view from the water and leaves a bland taste in my mouth when I see it.

It doesn't need to be torn down. Just drape the entire thing with ivy or greenery.

If you notice every window is recessed in so there is space to put ivy, which could encompass the entire building, making it beautiful.

http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/mumbaitower1.jpg

[spiker3]

I've said the same thing about the BOA tower, but virginia pe has some good takes on that subject, if he'd like to share as to why it will not be torn down

[mistermetaj]

I've said the same thing about the BOA tower, but virginia pe has some good takes on that subject, if he'd like to share as to why it will not be torn down

Oh don't get me wrong, I know it will never be torn down. Especially in Norfolk, that would be the most non cost effective move for that site. Unless a supertall could ONLY be built in that site, it will never be torn down.

However, strictly for aesthetic purposes, I wish it would come down. In the US unfortunately, cheap construction (esp. in 60s and 70s with functionalism and international styles) is the preferred method by developers, thus cheaper and uglier buildings result. That is why I love the low rises right now that are contextual with the older historic buildings and I think they are good for the character of the area. Buildings like the BoA and BB&T building aren't no matter how tall they are.

Honestly, at this point, I could only hope and pray for a reclad, but complete removal I would never honestly think would happen, even in my wildest dreams.