Weekend shooting Downtown

[Luca Brasi]

This is getting really frustrating. Someone was shot in the chest in a drive by shooting after the bars closed Saturday night/Sunday morning in the vicinity of the intersection of Union Place and Church St.

Who wants to go out for a good time and have to worry about gunfire?! From what I understand, this person left Papa's pizza and was shot in a driveby by the Federal. I think a place like Papa's should be shut down. They attract a crowd of undesirables after the bars close with many people just loitering and hanging out. In the last 10 years, there have been countless shootings and stabbings at or outside this place. At the very least, they should be ordered to close one hour before bar closing time. I think Blu nightclub has had something like 3 shootings in the last year and a half. This type of violence was unheard of downtown 10 years ago.

The police need to get their arms around this problem... it seems to be getting worse. I am starting to not blame the suburbanites who percieve Hartford as a dangerous place to avoid. Drunken fights outside a bar/club district is one thing but shootings and stabbings are completely different. It makes me fear for the future of downtown entertainment. Its all downtown Hartford has after 5pm right now. People need to feel safe downtown or all the effort put into revitalizing downtown will be wasted.

[The Voice of Reason]

Honestly, this is all about a visable police presence.

I saw that the city hired 80 new officers for the most recent budget, and I only hope they add more.

I have seen a noticable increase in the amount of police visability in the year I have been working downtown.

The new police building they are building should also help things downtown.

That being said...

The fact that the city has a long standing reputation problem based on violence in the CBD should make the mayor take swift action.

This city needs to station more police downtown at night. EVERY NIGHT. especially near the bars and clubs.

My wife worked with a guy that was having dinner and drinks with a friend and their girlfriends last year at trumbull Kitchen. The two guys were standing outside smoking when they were robbed at gunpoint along with the other people standing outside. As the offenders walked away towards the park one turned around shooting into the crowd. The co-workers friend was hit in the leg and almost bled to death.

Now for a crime like that to happen, the criminal element has to be pretty brave, stupid, or just confident that there will be no reperrcussions. Confidence is my guess as the cops were no where to be seen, and did nothing visable to stop this kind of thing. Hell I dont think the shooting even made the paper.

The fact is that police are rarely needed during the work time hours. They should be very visable however after dusk. There should be foot patrolls on weekend nights, and there should be squad cars doing loops, or even just parked on busy corners.

[grock]

They need more development. The vacant lots should be housing, which would put more people on the street and would be less attractive to thugs.

This is not just a Hartford problem. Two guys with guns were busted after leaving Barcelona in West Hartford Center where there was a fight.

Ever been to Grant's for last call? THe drunks are scary.

[The Voice of Reason]

no, but I have been to the Fed mentioned earlier and that was a little sketchy in its own right. there were 2 fights the one time I was there. For some reason I dont feel like going back... wonder why?

[drc72]

This is getting really frustrating. Someone was shot in the chest in a drive by shooting after the bars closed Saturday night/Sunday morning in the vicinity of the intersection of Union Place and Church St.

Who wants to go out for a good time and have to worry about gunfire?! From what I understand, this person left Papa's pizza and was shot in a driveby by the Federal. I think a place like Papa's should be shut down. They attract a crowd of undesirables after the bars close with many people just loitering and hanging out. In the last 10 years, there have been countless shootings and stabbings at or outside this place. At the very least, they should be ordered to close one hour before bar closing time. I think Blu nightclub has had something like 3 shootings in the last year and a half. This type of violence was unheard of downtown 10 years ago.

The police need to get their arms around this problem... it seems to be getting worse. I am starting to not blame the suburbanites who percieve Hartford as a dangerous place to avoid. Drunken fights outside a bar/club district is one thing but shootings and stabbings are completely different. It makes me fear for the future of downtown entertainment. Its all downtown Hartford has after 5pm right now. People need to feel safe downtown or all the effort put into revitalizing downtown will be wasted.

[uconn99]

Does Hartford have police on horses? Most large cities have mounted police on busy bar nights.

[blink55184]

Does Hartford have police on horses? Most large cities have mounted police on busy bar nights.

[The Voice of Reason]

Having mounted police is a bit expensive I would think. I would love to see them here agan some day, but even squad cars would be nice to see.

Hell if the city took its 80 new cops and put half of them on from 5Pm-4 AM in staggered shifts with dinner breaks etc... The city could have 10 teams of 3 patrolling the CBD most of the night 7 nights a week. The other 40 new guys would bolster the rest of the dept.

Hopefully once a few more buildings are built downtown (YMCA Tower +1 more) the city would have enough additional tax income to support a few ponies

[grock]

Mounted patrols return this spring.

[Luca Brasi]

This is not just a Hartford problem. Two guys with guns were busted after leaving Barcelona in West Hartford Center where there was a fight.

Ever been to Grant's for last call? THe drunks are scary.

[ctman]

This is getting really frustrating. Someone was shot in the chest in a drive by shooting after the bars closed Saturday night/Sunday morning in the vicinity of the intersection of Union Place and Church St.

Who wants to go out for a good time and have to worry about gunfire?! From what I understand, this person left Papa's pizza and was shot in a driveby by the Federal. I think a place like Papa's should be shut down. They attract a crowd of undesirables after the bars close with many people just loitering and hanging out. In the last 10 years, there have been countless shootings and stabbings at or outside this place. At the very least, they should be ordered to close one hour before bar closing time. I think Blu nightclub has had something like 3 shootings in the last year and a half. This type of violence was unheard of downtown 10 years ago.

The police need to get their arms around this problem... it seems to be getting worse. I am starting to not blame the suburbanites who percieve Hartford as a dangerous place to avoid. Drunken fights outside a bar/club district is one thing but shootings and stabbings are completely different. It makes me fear for the future of downtown entertainment. Its all downtown Hartford has after 5pm right now. People need to feel safe downtown or all the effort put into revitalizing downtown will be wasted.

[Luca Brasi]

Stating that Papa's be closed down is the most absurd thing I have heard all day.

[Lowerdeck]

So let me get this straight.... you don't see an issue with an establishment that has had at least 8-10 shootings or stabbings in the last 10 years? Are you serious? You are actually going to tell me that its absurd to suggest closing down a place that attracts this element when Hartford is trying to attract outsiders downtown?

[Luca Brasi]

Its not one shooting or stabbing a year in town. Its one a year in a single small 4x4 pizza shop in the middle of an entertainment district. And you don't think thats a problem? You think that's "manageable?" It doesn't even take into account the assaults, fights, gunplay, etc. you don't hear about. Maybe I'm on a different wavelength, but I don't think that is acceptable at all. I don't think people who stop for a bite to eat should have to worry about such things.

Hartford cops hate the place because of the problems it causes.

[mikel]

Sad but true, the correlation between clubs that play rap and gun violence is just too clear. Union Place was much better before Bourbon Street started playing rap. Either rap makes me people stupid, or stupid people gravitate to it.

[The Voice of Reason]

Here is my synical statement regarding downtown violence.

Was it random like the shooting in front og Trumbull? no

OK then I dont mind so much. If the victim wasnt shot downtown he would have been shot somewher else.

The random acts of violence are what tarnishes the city, and those can me avoided by visable police presence.

It sounds to me like the cops were there and that this was going to happen regardless of their efforts.

It's really a shame, but there is nothing a business could do to stop this killing. We would have to close all the clubs and keep everyone out of downtown. So regardless of what I wrote earlier. this murder is part of what cities deal with as they stretch the vitality of the SBD into the late night hours.

[ctman]

Its not one shooting or stabbing a year in town. Its one a year in a single small 4x4 pizza shop in the middle of an entertainment district. And you don't think thats a problem? You think that's "manageable?" It doesn't even take into account the assaults, fights, gunplay, etc. you don't hear about. Maybe I'm on a different wavelength, but I don't think that is acceptable at all. I don't think people who stop for a bite to eat should have to worry about such things.

Hartford cops hate the place because of the problems it causes.

[Luca Brasi]

It IS that bad.

What you refuse to take into account is that this is not a citywide problem... its not a neighborhood problem... its the problem of ONE single small business. And its not an isolated problem, but its a repeat problem that has been going on for years. There was one incident last year when someone walked into Papa's and opened fire killing one and wounding two innocents and when the gunman made their getaway, they hit and killed another innocent bystander. A couple years ago, someone was shot in the chest and killed as they sat eating pizza. Another time, the front of the building was sprayed with bullets in a drive by wounding people standing outside...etc....etc. The problem people are the ones who congregate at this business. So whether they are shot inside the restaurant, outside on the sidewalk or a block away, this is still the place that draws them all into one place to find each other, so it has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Everyone has the right to make a living, but not at the expense of the rest of downtown. I don't want to get into a pissing match... I've defended my stance on this and I think I've made my point clear. You seem to have no problem looking the other way and making excuses, but I do. I find this type of repeat extreme violence completely inexcusable, bad for dowown and do not think it should be tolerated. We aren't talking drunken barfights here.... we're talking murders and attempted murders. The nuisance law should be enacted.

[Lowerdeck]

I'm not sure how it's the business owner's fault that his clientele are a bunch of idiots who end up shooting and knifing each other up. It's not like the people who own the place are like ... hey, now go run down the street and cap each other.

In Danbury, many people go to the clubs downtown ... then some afterwards go to the Denny's on the east side of town. The Denny's tends to have a lot of fights breaking out between drunk and moody idiots, otherwise likely rational human beings. Want to close that down too because of the fighting?

The problem is, if you draw in the young clientele, all they want to do is get incredibly drunk. One or two beers isn't good enough, stumbling home and forgetting how you got there is the way to go. And generally, this leads to belligerence. And the youth nowadays aren't satisfied enough with your standard fight or savage beatings. People are too lazy to do that now. So we got knives and guns, quickly gets rid of problems by just bodying them. Yes it's extreme for "moments", but we're Americans... the land of instant everything.

And whoever made the comment about the hip hop clubs, yeah, I agree. It's scary. Those are the most prone to seeing fights and violence break out. Mainly because of the incredibly stupid people who listen to it. The most popular clubs in Danbury play hip hop: Tuxedo Junction, 11 (since renamed), Plasma (since renamed), and Allure. They also are home to most of the bar fights in the city, and the most violations - overcrowding, liquor, violence - in town. (11 and Plasma both got shut down for serving minors very very frequently. On a hip-hop 18+ night, I even got a wristband at 11 though my license said I was under 21 at the time.) They tend to draw whatever they can, particularly white girls and the belligerent drunks who chase them.

[mikel]

This is true. Even in a suburban diner it's rowdy after 2am. The only thing is, you really don't expect people to start shooting there. There is such a connection to rap music and cowardly gun shooting that I now refuse to go anywhere where it's being played. I don't see why it's popular, I work so hard that I want to hear and see good vibes when I go out to have fun, not hearing strident beats and some guy yelling in semi-english about ridiculous values and people getting rowdy and violent.

[Lowerdeck]

Yeah, I stopped going to hip hop clubs myself. I found them pointless. The music is terrible. The people there are completely sketchy. Bunch of them allow smoking, or look the other way towards it. Fights always tend to break out, and the last thing I need is someone (a) who doesn't like me beating me into a concrete floor or (b) some random belligerent drunk who thinks I looked at him or his woman (and not in those words) the wrong way and knifes me up.

[ctman]

It IS that bad.

What you refuse to take into account is that this is not a citywide problem... its not a neighborhood problem... its the problem of ONE single small business. And its not an isolated problem, but its a repeat problem that has been going on for years. There was one incident last year when someone walked into Papa's and opened fire killing one and wounding two innocents and when the gunman made their getaway, they hit and killed another innocent bystander. A couple years ago, someone was shot in the chest and killed as they sat eating pizza. Another time, the front of the building was sprayed with bullets in a drive by wounding people standing outside...etc....etc. The problem people are the ones who congregate at this business. So whether they are shot inside the restaurant, outside on the sidewalk or a block away, this is still the place that draws them all into one place to find each other, so it has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Everyone has the right to make a living, but not at the expense of the rest of downtown. I don't want to get into a pissing match... I've defended my stance on this and I think I've made my point clear. You seem to have no problem looking the other way and making excuses, but I do. I find this type of repeat extreme violence completely inexcusable, bad for dowown and do not think it should be tolerated. We aren't talking drunken barfights here.... we're talking murders and attempted murders. The nuisance law should be enacted.

[Hartford to WH]

does anyone here remember pollyestas on allyn-now NV? what about that shooting? That was INSIDE the bar.. no one shut them down- and who remembers if they were playing rap... these ridiculous stereotypes don't do anything to get more police presence downtown.. or in the North End- which , or any other neighborhood that needs more attention. Bourbon Street hires Hartford policemen as additonal security to avoid what happens at places like Blu..what if the people came from Hot Tomatos bar and then stopped at Papa's..

Closing a bar that plays rap won't make downtown feel safer- What Hartford needs is MORE police.

The mounted patrol in spring is only during the daytime anyway....

[Afro Saxon]

does anyone here remember pollyestas on allyn-now NV? what about that shooting? That was INSIDE the bar.. no one shut them down- and who remembers if they were playing rap... these ridiculous stereotypes don't do anything to get more police presence downtown.. or in the North End- which , or any other neighborhood that needs more attention. Bourbon Street hires Hartford policemen as additonal security to avoid what happens at places like Blu..what if the people came from Hot Tomatos bar and then stopped at Papa's..

Closing a bar that plays rap won't make downtown feel safer- What Hartford needs is MORE police.

The mounted patrol in spring is only during the daytime anyway....

[Bill Mocarsky]

Because to many rap is responsible for everything; The Iraq war, Imus, their foreclosure and whatever else they can tack on.