Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[Guest]

I agree completely with this.  Unfortunately, much like will be the case with the light rail and Publix, it probably will take someone getting hit before the city decides to do anything about it.  A pedestrian bridge here is an absolute no-brainer.  And we are kidding ourselves if we think people wont attempt to walk across the train yard.  Just look at how many people try to run across Independence every day.

well, if they were to attempt it, they would be greatly disappointed by the barbed wire fences that surround the train yard.

[southslider]

Crossing an entire freight yard is a bit less practical than crossing a couple LRT tracks at the future Publix.

[Matthew.Brendan]

So is the lack of proper pedestrian bridge or crossing at Publix a failure of Publix or the city? (Or likely both I guess) I don't know enough about zoning and "ped overlays" etc

[Yurek]

well, if they were to attempt it, they would be greatly disappointed by the barbed wire fences that surround the train yard.

 

Why bothering putting a pedestrian bridge, when you can start ticketing people for crossing rails?

[New Name]

All I'll say is that I'm pretty pig-headed when following a map. If I were a visitor exploring Charlotte, I'd see that there is light rail 1000ft away and insist on walking there.... somehow. Much to the dismay of my wife.

[southslider]

At Publix, it's a question of pedestrian safety. Trains are traveling much faster between farther-spaced stations. The developer could have built a pedestrian bridge or a complete street with control gates, but of course, saved money instead.

At Amtrak, it's a question of physical constraints. Plus, that long of a ped-only bridge or tunnel would be so isolated. Think of walking Matheson bridge, but without car traffic.

Since NoDa has better connectivity across the NCRR, maybe the Amtrak station should relocate slightly north, instead of Gateway. Imagine arriving in Charlotte's revitalized mill village, much like Durham or Raleigh's station areas. Shiny Uptown would still be just a short BLE ride away.

Edited August 19, 2014 by southslider

[Prodev]

Yeah, with regards to the ped crossing at Publix, it was definitely an issue of funding. I'd suspect that once Publix gets open and we get some additional density west of the rail, it will happen on the City's dime. It's not cheap though from what I've been told. 

[grodney]

Where is this Publix y'all are talking about?

[kermit]

^ unless Publix builds a massive concrete wall blocking the tracks I suspect that people will quickly 'fix' the existing fence to create an ad-hoc crossing. This happens pretty frequently on the rail trail between West and Bland already -- the standard green rail trail fence is not particularly robust.

(The Publix is across from Lowes on South blvd across from Iverson Way)

Edited August 19, 2014 by kermit

[JoshuaDrown]

Here's a little map of the Publix location:

 

[ChessieCat]

At Publix, it's a question of pedestrian safety. Trains are traveling much faster between farther-spaced stations. The developer could have built a pedestrian bridge or a complete street with control gates, but of course, saved money instead.

At Amtrak, it's a question of physical constraints. Plus, that long of a ped-only bridge or tunnel would be so isolated. Think of walking Matheson bridge, but without car traffic.

Since NoDa has better connectivity across the NCRR, maybe the Amtrak station should relocate slightly north, instead of Gateway. Imagine arriving in Charlotte's revitalized mill village, much like Durham or Raleigh's station areas. Shiny Uptown would still be just a short BLE ride away.

 

That is an awesome idea about replacing the current Amshack with a refurbished mill building or warehouse like Durham near NoDa.

 

At present, the powers that be want a Gateway station that has both Amtrak and Regional Rail (Red Line) heavy rail connectivity but with NCDOT refusing to build the CSX/NCRR grade separation at ADM, nothing is going to happen soon. @southslider you have given good commentary on the grade separation problems in the Red Line forum.

 

I am throwing this location out there, around where Matheson intersects Brevard:  

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=NoDa,+Charlotte,+NC&hl=en&ll=35.247369,-80.811431&spn=0.002779,0.004128&sll=50.069734,14.401099&sspn=0.006177,0.016512&oq=noda+&hnear=NoDa,+Charlotte,+Mecklenburg+County,+North+Carolina&t=h&z=19

 

Take note that there is a spur line from the NCRR to the O-line. Piedmont passenger trains currently use this spur line to turn around at the Atando Wye & O-line. 

 

Would a Amtrak/BLE station just north of Matheson and southwest of the Highland Mill area work?  

 

Could it serve as a southern terminus for a future Red Line or would the northern suburbs not be happy with anything less than a one-seat ride to uptown?    

Edited August 19, 2014 by ChessieCat

[kermit]

Lets be clear. Anything other than a downtown Charlotte terminus for NC intercity rail would be a huge failure in the development of an efficient transportation system and a robust urban core. Having said that, it does appear that Gateway station will not happen anytime soon (certainly not in this cycle), and Gateway's separation from the LRT spine of the transit system is a huge (but unfortunately necessary) mistake.

Its not unreasonable to start thinking about creating a couple of smaller (mostly on the intra-urban scale) stations elsewhere in NE Charlotte in addition to Gateway. An intown station (could be Matheson (thanks CC), NoDa (I think it is too late for a station around 36th and parking would be tough) or Sugar Creek (could share parking with the CATS park and ride) plus a suburban station at 485 would be needed when (not if) commuter service between downtown CLT and Salisbury gets moving. The intra-urban stations could serve as a stopgap while we wait for NCDOT to get their s_hit together on Gateway. After Gateway, a small number of intercity trains (the non-expresses) could continue stop at the intown station to provide a direct transfer to the BLE.

Basically we need to quit half-assing the design and construction of our rail transit system. We are building for 20-40 years from now, not for today.

Edited August 19, 2014 by kermit

[New Name]

^I agree. And I think that's where I was coming from in the very beginning. Instead of going around in circles for 10 years trying to get Gateway Station off the ground, make a semi-permanent concession for the safety of everyone who will TRY to connect.

 

Boston has dual commuter train/subway stations, where you can transfer without going through North or South Station (main hub stations). You can transfer from the commuter train to subway at several platforms along the Orange and Red lines.

 

So honestly, think about it - don't even build a new Charlotte "depot" train station.... just make a transfer possible at Sugar Creek or something...

[ChessieCat]

Lets be clear. Anything other than a downtown Charlotte terminus for NC intercity rail would be a huge failure in the development of an efficient transportation system and a robust urban core. Having said that, it does appear that Gateway station will not happen anytime soon (certainly not in this cycle), and Gateway's separation from the LRT spine of the transit system is a huge (but unfortunately necessary) mistake.

Its not unreasonable to start thinking about creating a couple of smaller (mostly on the intra-urban scale) stations elsewhere in NE Charlotte in addition to Gateway. An intown station (could be Matheson (thanks CC), NoDa (I think it is too late for a station around 36th and parking would be tough) or Sugar Creek (could share parking with the CATS park and ride) plus a suburban station at 485 would be needed when (not if) commuter service between downtown CLT and Salisbury gets moving. The intra-urban stations could serve as a stopgap while we wait for NCDOT to get their s_hit together on Gateway. After Gateway, a small number of intercity trains (the non-expresses) could continue stop at the intown station to provide a direct transfer to the BLE.

Basically we need to quit half-assing the design and construction of our rail transit system. We are building for 20-40 years from now, not for today.

 

Excellent points, Kermit.  If the goal is to build smaller stations, I want to throw out this location north of Alpha Mill where the BLE and CSX Mainline intersect:

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Alpha+Mill,+Alpha+Mill+Lane,+Charlotte,+NC&hl=en&ll=35.233189,-80.830349&spn=0.00139,0.002064&sll=35.233234,-80.830195&sspn=0.002779,0.004128&oq=alpha+m&t=h&z=20

 

If we are building for 20-40 years into the future where all existing rail corridors will be needed for some sort of passenger rail, then it's a location where all the major lines (BLE, CSX, NCRR, AT&O, and A&CW) can connect. 

 

There is a lot of extra unused trackage and vacant land if you haven't noticed while driving over 16th Street.  I drove by the area over the weekend and noticed that 16th street is now closed for BLE work.

 

Amtrak Crescent trains from the south would have to be diverted east at ADM along the CSX but there is plenty of extra trackage to allow this, plus those trains arrive off-peak between 1-2AM anyway.

 

Passenger trains from the north (Piedmont, Carolinian, Crescent, Red Line) would have to follow a new southernly path at Broom's Lead (Matheson bridge) along the eastern edge of the yard but the good thing is extra trackage has been freed up with the NS Intermodal terminal getting moved to the Airport.  BTW- CATS has the option to buy this property anyway.

 

Heavy rail will obviously have to use different trackage than the BLE but this already occurs at the I-485/South Blvd station where the NS "R" Line and Blue Line operate side-by-side.

 

And who knows 40 years from now the CSX line out to Matthews, the Red Line (AT&O) up to Davidson, and A&CW out to Mint Hill/Midland may be needed for commuter rail.

 

The current Amshack has no connectivity to anything, not even a pedestrian bridge over the Yard to the BLE!!!

Edited August 26, 2014 by ChessieCat

[grodney]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but how will fares work once the blue line extension is done?  Will I be able to buy a single ticket at 485 and ride it all the way to University -- in other words, same price no matter how far I'm going?  Thanks.

[southslider]

^Yes

[Nolan]

I don't think Charlotte is ready to have fare zones like in other cities. However, right now a single trip from 485 to UNCC with the current fare is a good deal.

[LKN704]

I don't think the current proof-of-payment plan can efficiently support zonal fares anyway.

 

In the future (say 5 years once the line is complete and the Gold Line phase 2 is complete), I can see CATS eliminating paper tickets and forcing everyone to purchase a smart card. I was in Los Angeles last month, and everyone who used the Metro system was forced to buy a "TAP card", even if they were just taking one trip. For the light rail stations that did not have turnstiles, you just had to tap the card at a validator near the platform before boarding, and once again if you made a transfer.

[HopHead]

Agreed that Charlotte isn't ready for the whole "fare zone" concept just yet. I'd give it a few years after the extension opens before it's considered. Though I concur if you're going from 485 to say NoDa, the $4.40 rate would be a steal. Though I imagine we'll see another increase or two by the time BLE opens in 2017. Even then, a deal.

[grodney]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but new ads appeared at 3rd St station on Monday -- both between the rails and on the outside bridge rails. 

 

 

[Neo]

I personally like the ads. They give us a real city feel (as if we weren't a real city...but it makes it livelier IMO).

[UptownCLTwalker]

 

Noticed a clearing yesterday so I stopped and got some shots. You can see construction beginning for the light rail extension.

Edited September 13, 2014 by UptownCLTwalker

[AuLukey]

I'll call this article mildly optimistic yet all-in-all pretty comprehensive on the outlook of the BLE's impact on surrounding areas.  It compares the impact the line is already bringing to NoDa, probably won't bring to North Tryon, and somewhat mixed on the outcome of University City (proper.)  I think their points are pretty spot on, it's going to be up to the city to make the middle of the line work.

 

 

...less certain is what light rail will mean for the redevelopment prospects of the aging shopping centers and struggling neighborhoods sandwiched between NoDa and University City. 

 

For those areas, they say, a rail-inspired economic revival could be decades away, if it comes at all.

 

“the distance is too much for those two barbells to reach each other…right around Eastway and North Tryon, the city is really going to have to focus its attention on planning, redevelopment and reinvestment.”

[michaelef]

CATS added some photos about new light rail vehicle on their Facebook page. Only difference looks to be the seats. They said they will be in service by the end of the year

[LKN704]

^Not a huge fan. They look incredibly sterile, IMHO.