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Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line


dubone

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To be noted: The land that is being used for the Light Rail on the UNCC campus will be free, making the extra 1 1/2 mile journey onto campus actually cheaper than going down Tryon.

So long as the footprint of the project remains inside the right-of-way of Tryon, it's free also. Both the highway and the university are state-owned property.

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I saw one analysis that while the rail may run down the centerline, they have to add additional ROW to relocate auto lanes.

And it would look like this:

aeriallowangle.jpg

Personally I don't like it, and it going to be very similar to Houston's LRT and that system has been known to have several accidents with automobiles trying to cross the intersections. Using the split platforms do save space and it wouldn't need such a wide ROW.

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I rode the light rail with my family on Saturday. 485 to 3rd street and back. 11:20am from 485, 1pm-ish from uptown. Fairly crowded both ways. After buying my tickets at 3rd street, the machines started showing "NOT AVAILABLE" for one-way tickets. Other riders were left having to go across to the other side to the other machine, or I heard some just grumble and then ride for free. Why is this ticket problem happening at mid-day on a Saturday?

Anyway, on the way back to 485, there was a (plainclothes) Charmeck employee sitting in the very back of the train. At each station, he looked to be counting the number of people boarding, and writing it down. I saw his name and title on his Charmeck badge. His name is probably irrelevant, but his title was "Transit Planner", which may or may not be interesting.

A couple other odd things (to me): Our train had to stop at Remount both inbound and outbound. I don't know why. Also, on the outbound, we stopped at the train barn for what was probably 3 or 4 minutes. Again, don't know why.

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And it would look like this:

aeriallowangle.jpg

Personally I don't like it, and it going to be very similar to Houston's LRT and that system has been known to have several accidents with automobiles trying to cross the intersections. Using the split platforms do save space and it wouldn't need such a wide ROW.

This is the worst design for rapid rail transit. Trains should never run in the streets with cars unless it's a modern day trolley/street car system.

If a city is building a light rail system as a cheaper version of a heavy rail "metro" styled system Charlotte should build all lines to be most like the Southern portion of the Blue Line in its own Right-of-Way.

And it's true in Houston that cars crash into the trains.

Edited by Atlside
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^Its not in the car lanes, but right next to it. A small barrier would fix that problem...

I think Houston is actually in mixed traffic, right?

Houston's was in mixed traffic, but if I'm not mistaken they have added curbs and barriers, but I'm not sure on that. I would hope that CATs and the developers, if they chose to run it down the middle, are smart enough to preserve their line, trains, and passengers by putting in simple curbs and barriers and safety areas around the stations where there is enough room to handle large crowds waiting without having to be in the road. LRT is not made to be in mixed traffic, but I still think it's a better choice to have it run off to one side.

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A couple other odd things (to me): Our train had to stop at Remount both inbound and outbound. I don't know why. Also, on the outbound, we stopped at the train barn for what was probably 3 or 4 minutes. Again, don't know why.

I think that the Remount Road crossing is proving problematic, from my purely anecdotal observations from New Bern Station. Its pretty heavily traveled, especially at rush hours, and I think people have been going around the gates. Unlike the other Southend crossings, the trains would otherwise be running pretty quickly (45mph) through there, but drivers seem ignorant to that. And I think its happening frequently enough that CATS has decided it is safer to have trains slow to an almost complete stop before crossing Remount.

My suspicion would be that CATS will install double gates at Remount to flat out prevent drivers from going through.

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I think Houston's problem stems from a couple of things. It is not a mixed-traffic operation; mixed traffic operations don't have these problems as the trains behave predictably just like a (very long) bus, obeying the same traffic signals that other vehicles do. It is also not a transit mall; in transit malls, private vehicles are not allowed, so from the perspective of cars on cross streets, it behaves just like any other railroad crossing.

In Houston, the LRT is given its own dedicated lane in Main Street, and cars get the other lane.

The most common LRT/car accident in Houston is a left turn into the path of a train coming from behind. In Houston on Main Street, there are no dedicated left turn lanes - the right of way is too narrow. Therefore, there can be no red left arrows. On the standard stoplights, vehicles will see only green ball signals and red ball signals. When a train is coming along Main Street, they don't want to stop vehicular traffic from proceeding as well, so the signal is a green ball. Now, a green ball and no red left arrow means "left turn yield on green" - when there is no ONCOMING traffic, you're clear to go. This is a rule that generally applies EVERYWHER. But what happens when a light rail train is approaching from behind, in the same direction as you're going? Oncoming traffic in the opposite direction is clear, but there's actually something coming up behind you on the left. Houston addresses this situation by having "no left turn" signs light up when a train is coming through, though the signal remains a green ball. They want people who WOULD have turned left if a train weren't there, to just keep going straight since there's nowhere for them to stop and wait for the train to go by without blocking traffic. People sometimes miss the no left turn signs (or ignore them, not realizing the severe consequences), or perhaps become confused at the conflict between green ball and admittedly unusual light-up "no left turn" signs - and turn left anyway, in the path of a train coming from behind them. Smack.

What it boils down to is that Main Street in Houston is a bit narrow to have a surface LRT that is neither mixed traffic nor a transit mall. N Tryon Street in Charlotte by University City and UNCC, on the other hand, is plenty wide enough to allow left-turn-only lanes, which can be shown an unequivocal red left arrow to keep cars from turning into the path of an oncoming train. Problem solved.

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..... N Tryon Street in Charlotte by University City and UNCC, on the other hand, is plenty wide enough to allow left-turn-only lanes, which can be shown an unequivocal red left arrow to keep cars from turning into the path of an oncoming train. Problem solved.
Beyond the 29/49 weave it probably isn't much of an issue. It's the section of track that would exist from Sugar Creek to say Tom Hunter Rd. where I can see a problem with this plan. That area is very congested with hundreds of pullouts to businesses on either side of the road. It's a dicey area now when it comes to traffic and can imagine the addition of a train is going to make that worse. I realize they are taking this approach to save money but I can't help to think they will come to regret the decision later as this kind of design is going to limit how much it can be expanded in the future. If they are having to already reduce speeds at Remount due to safety issues that's really going to limit capacity.
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It's my impression that the favored NE LRT plan is the one that follows the NCRR further, and joins N Tryon somewhere past Old Concord. So that leaves about a mile between there and the weave.

Dealing with the vehicular aspect of the huge number of driveways, I suspect that they would rebuild this segment of road such that you can only cross the median at traffic signals. In other words, to pull out of a business and go left, you would have to first turn right and then make a U-turn - a model that works just fine in countless other places.)

As far as the pedestrian aspect of the driveways is concerned, The number of curb cuts per mile isn't really any worse than South Blvd before the light rail; some public projects to consolidate driveways near the stations, plus urban design guidelines and private redevelopment doing the rest will gradually make the area more pedestrian friendly.

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In the FY 2008 Federal Budget approved by the House of Reps yesterday there is a line item for $1.9M for Charlotte Rapid Transit that will go towards the Preliminary Engineering of the Blue Line Extention. Now the budget goes to the Senate for debate and approval. Both NC Senators Burr and Dole have already publically expressed their support for this funding so it is likely to remain in the budget that goes to President Bush for his signature.

Edited by uptownliving
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I think the vast majority driveways along North Tryon will become right-turn only with the NE extension of LYNX. Indeed, many driveways in the Univesity City area are already like that today.

Restricted and formalized turning has only improved South Boulevard. Its far more attractive, its not a living hell for pedestrians, and its safer for cars. Heck, I'd say that it's almost Boulevard-like!

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Couple of LYNX notes from last night's MTC meeting:

-The printer problem with the Ticket Machines appears to have been fixed.

-They are still working on speeding up transaction processing time.

-CATS is looking at getting more TVM's for the 485, Stonewall, Arena, and 7th St Stations.

-They plan to have Debit/Credit working on the TVM's by the end of 1Q08

-Scaleybark Park&Ride should be open in the next 10 days.

For New Year's Eve they plan to run the trains a little later than normal...possibly as late as 2am. Also they are looking at running the trains later on Friday/Saturday to service the bar crowd on a permanent basis.

- Systemwide Ridership was up 16% in November compared to November 2006.

Edited by uptownliving
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Dealing with the vehicular aspect of the huge number of driveways, I suspect that they would rebuild this segment of road such that you can only cross the median at traffic signals. In other words, to pull out of a business and go left, you would have to first turn right and then make a U-turn - a model that works just fine in countless other places.)

As far as the pedestrian aspect of the driveways is concerned, The number of curb cuts per mile isn't really any worse than South Blvd before the light rail; some public projects to consolidate driveways near the stations, plus urban design guidelines and private redevelopment doing the rest will gradually make the area more pedestrian friendly.

I would tend to agree that the median will be closed to left turning auto traffic except at signals--no median driveway cuts. As far as turning moves at signals, the rendering shows a left turn bay at the intersection, so it should get a red left turn arrow while the train is clearing the intersection. Also, that rendering doesn't show any barriers, but there's going to be a curb at least, or possibly a jersey barrier installed to separate rails from auto traffic.

I'm also curious if anyone knows the FRA-required separation for LRT in a freight (NCRR) corridor. I can recall seeing a picture of the South line where it joins the active NS line, and it appeared to be a rather wide spacing, maybe 50 feet.

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I have been on the 485 platform when a freight train passed by at very good clip. I would estimate there is about 25 ft seperation of the LRT and freight tracks there. It was a little intimidating to be on the platform with the freight train passing by so fast...it was pretty loud too...could not carry on a conversation with my friend standing next to me.

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The number of people getting on and off at Stonewall surprises me. I didn't think it would be a very popular station.

Yeah, I've noticed this station is not used much. Perhaps when there's an event at the COnvention center this would be a popular stop.

One other interesting thing I've noticed almost every time i ride... I think i've only ever seen ONE car parked in the Tyvola park n ride lot. It's open, right? Why isn't anyone using that lot?

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The Stonewall and Carson stations are both lightly used. Although I do see people leave the train at Carson to some extent, in order to walk to where they live.

3rd street gets plenty of foot traffic, but people seem to be uneasy waiting under the lighted shelters, and prefer to stand in the "tunnel" instead.

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Indeed. I believe this is what happened in RDU which dramatically increased the costs of that line and which eventually led to the TTA project being canceled.

TTA plan was not light rail, so FRA requirements on separating light rail and heavy rail were not applicable. I think the problem was that TTA wanted to share the two existing rails from Raleigh Boylan to Cary Fetner with CSX/NS, then add a second rail Cary Fetner to Durham yard and share the two rails with NS, but NS and CSX said no, build your own two rails alongside our two/one. This did increase the costs dramatically for the proposal.

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^FRA guidance for horizontal separation is 25 feet from track center to track center. However, individual railroads can and often do ask for more.

One of the engineering issues from 9th Street to 24th Street (beyond getting across the CSX line behind Alpha Mills) will be greatly affected by what happens to the NS railyard.

some aerials of

NCRR ROW (future NE alignment) from I-277 to CSX crossing runs SW to NE in this picture (at the far southwest just west of Alpha Mills, there is no rail currently, you can see the ROW where the rail was pulled up/):

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&...7&encType=1

I assume FRA would not allow an interlocking, so either CSX will have to go into a cut under NE line, or NE line will have to go under CSX or over it.

=========================

further northeast, NCRR ROW runs from lower left to upper right, NS railyard is at top, upper right you can see the NS owned line merging with the NCRR ROW

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&...0&encType=1

====================

BTW you can zoom in/out and pan in any direction on the two maps. Try switching from areial to birds eye view. Have fun. Oh, and if you finish the engineering by mid-January send the city a bill for $27m with your design schematics.

Edited by staffer
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