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Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line


dubone

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I think that, generally, when a grade separation is being built involving a freight railroad, the grade of whatever crosses the freight rails is modified, rather than vice versa, because a good freight railroad should not have grades greater than 1%. Furthermore, when the grade of the freight railroad has to be changed, it is generally easier to raise the railroad rather than lower it; cars + trucks need a vertical clearance of 16 feet; a freight railroad that may carry double-stacked intermodal trains needs a minimum clearance of 22 feet.

So, I would definitely expect the LRT to be bridged over or tunneled under the freight railroad, while the freight tracks stay exactlhy where they are, EXCEPT for one thing:

The CSX line is already planned to be lowered so that it can go under the Norfolk-Southern 'O' line and the NCRR (this is part of the North Corridor project.) So, perhaps, they could just extend that trench a few thousand feet longer to allow the LRT to go over it. That would involve changing the N. Tryon Street crossing from an underpass to an overpass, but it would have the side benefit of allow for massively increased connectivity through the area, as Poplar, Church, College, and Brevard could all be extended over the tracks simply by building a bridge.

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-The printer problem with the Ticket Machines appears to have been fixed.

-They are still working on speeding up transaction processing time.

The TVMs are so unbelievably slow. I don't know if it's the printers or that the machines are just slow but I think unless there is some hardware modification, the machines won't get substantially faster. I do wish they would at least replace the deafult Windows sound with something less jarring.

It is interesting seeing the cost engineering they did on the line. The TVMs are one that is obvious. I also noticed some of the seats on the train are developing a weird "give" that produces an audible click as the seat back sinks away from the rider.

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^Indeed, and the TVMs are really too complicated for what they need to do which slows down a lot of people too. It does amaze me that we are talking about a function that is very very common as millions buy tickets for trains every day. Yet it sounds as if CATS picked the one vendor that is still trying to figure out how to do it. Likewise there are probably 50 million gas pumps in the USA that take credit cards now. This shouldn't have been an issue with these machines.

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I really hope CATS pays attention to the feedback and sends those ticket machines back to the company for a refund. They are just absolutely awful. A core problem is that they modeled them after ATMs, but 1) who is ever really in a hurry to get money, 2) how often do lines form for ATMs, and 3) who the hell likes ATMs anyway!? Maybe, since they are competing with the driving experience, model them after gas pumps. Slide card in and out, push a dedicated button for which of the three options you want, and get on with it, with a receipt printing in a few seconds. Granted, the coins adds some time, but that should only add the length of time to put them each in, not the time to figure out what the heck the + and - means, where the coin slot is, where the dollar slot is, where the ticket comes out, and so on. When people are standing one foot away, they need to lean back and scan the thing with their eyes to familiarize themselves with all that, rather than it just being in one place. In fact, it is just like an ATM in that regard, leaning back --> look around --> is that the stack of envelopes or where I put the envelope in.

If you are going to model a customer experience after something else, make sure people like it and it is applicable to your situation!

As for the NE Extension, pretty much it seems like they'll have to bridge over the railroad tracks behind Alpha Mill. Big deal. It is a tiny span to cross a single freight track. That makes a bridge there, a bridge over the NCRR tracks behind Eastway Mall, and one at Harris. It is still much less than the original South line had. They already do benefit from bridges over other parts of the right of way, like 11th, Brookshire, Matheson and Eastway. It isn't like that is a new rule to not cross freight tracks with light rail, if that is the rule, then I would expect they factored that into their preliminary budget. I know the streetcar factored all sorts of options into problem areas when they were figuring out their stuff, so why wouldn't CATS have done that with the NE extension? As for the Intermodal Yards, I believe CATS said they'd run it along the edge of Brevard up through there if the yards remained, but everyone is expecting it to leave (for newcomers, just the trucking part, not the rail yards themselves).

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As for the NE Extension, pretty much it seems like they'll have to bridge over the railroad tracks behind Alpha Mill. Big deal. It is a tiny span to cross a single freight track. That makes a bridge there, a bridge over the NCRR tracks behind Eastway Mall, and one at Harris. It is still much less than the original South line had. They already do benefit from bridges over other parts of the right of way, like 11th, Brookshire, Matheson and Eastway. It isn't like that is a new rule to not cross freight tracks with light rail, if that is the rule, then I would expect they factored that into their preliminary budget. I know the streetcar factored all sorts of options into problem areas when they were figuring out their stuff, so why wouldn't CATS have done that with the NE extension? As for the Intermodal Yards, I believe CATS said they'd run it along the edge of Brevard up through there if the yards remained, but everyone is expecting it to leave (for newcomers, just the trucking part, not the rail yards themselves).

I'm sure the LRT will have to pass over/under CSX, and I'm sure CATs has this in their budget. As far as the NS Intermodel Yard, they are looking to build a new terminal out at the airport between the new runway and the existing airfield, so it should move, perhaps by 2010 or 2011.

The CSX line is already planned to be lowered so that it can go under the Norfolk-Southern 'O' line and the NCRR (this is part of the North Corridor project.) So, perhaps, they could just extend that trench a few thousand feet longer to allow the LRT to go over it. That would involve changing the N. Tryon Street crossing from an underpass to an overpass, but it would have the side benefit of allow for massively increased connectivity through the area, as Poplar, Church, College, and Brevard could all be extended over the tracks simply by building a bridge.

It's probably one of those things that would work great, but sounds really expensive, and no doubt CSX or NCRR would not want to foot the bill, and CATS probably doesn't have the money either.

I think connecting UNCC to NoDa to Uptown is going to do wonders for those areas, and probably is the #1 built-in market for LRT in the city IMO. The only concern I would have if I were living in NoDa would be too much redevelopment of some of the cool historic shops, galleries, that make that area so unique and interesting. I'm thinking that there are some large industrial parcels that are prime for TODs directly ajacent to the corridor at 36th St, so hopefully that will be the primary area for redevelopment, and the majority of the existing neaighborhood SE/SW of Davidson St will remain as is.

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In reading the interview with Ron Tober in the Charlotte Observer today I was enamored by the following response:

Q. Have you heard from them, or any of the transit tax opposition since the election?

No. Lizardking (the online name of transit tax opponent Jay Morrison) never came by and picked up the e-mails from the city he requested. We haven't heard a word from Tom Ashcraft. They have been very quiet.

I just had to share with everyone what a big smile that put on my face when I read his answer. Hopefully the higher than projected ridership has silenced some or most of the line's opponents. The higher than projected ridership will ultimately be great for the line as the media outlets pick this up and broadcast it to the rest of the population that may have otherwise stayed away from the line but are now perhaps wondering what all of the fuss is about.

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In reading the interview with Ron Tober in the Charlotte Observer today I was enamored by the following response:

Q. Have you heard from them, or any of the transit tax opposition since the election?

No. Lizardking (the online name of transit tax opponent Jay Morrison) never came by and picked up the e-mails from the city he requested. We haven't heard a word from Tom Ashcraft. They have been very quiet.

I just had to share with everyone what a big smile that put on my face when I read his answer. Hopefully the higher than projected ridership has silenced some or most of the line's opponents. The higher than projected ridership will ultimately be great for the line as the media outlets pick this up and broadcast it to the rest of the population that may have otherwise stayed away from the line but are now perhaps wondering what all of the fuss is about.

In my opinion, some of the SUCCESS of the line's opening may have in fact stemmed from the vociferous opposition from what turned out to be a small minority. The noise level about the South Line opening raised the level of public awareness by about 65dB. How could anyone have bought all the publicity. The opponents rolled double or nothing and lost big.

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I took the train last night from 3rd Street where we live to the end of the line to do my Christmas Shopping. Was able to hit World Market, Circuit City, Old Navy, Da Shoe Warehouse, and back in 2 hours total. I left town at 4:20 and the train was packed, standing room only. Not quite as packed but all seats taken on the ride back into town at 6:00. People got on and off at all stops. There were construction workers, other workers, business folk in suits, a group of teens that looked like they were just riding around -- all types of people seeming to use the train for all types of uses. Other shoppers like me as well. The park & ride lot at the end of the line appeared completely full as well.

We then took the train from our place to Pewter Rose and Tutto Mundo later at 8:00 and home at 10:00. Both times lots of people on the trains (not full or all seats, but maybe about half full).

The opponents of this will not be able to back up their *no one will ever ride it* cries from the past nor their *its only for rich people* statements. Whether this will last or not and the numbers drop, who knows, but seeing plenty on the train that appeared to be coming to and from various types of jobs at all hours seems to me to indicate that these aren't joy-riders for the most part, but real potential long-term users.

I thoroughly enjoyed using the train yesterday -- no worries about traffic on South Blvd to shop at the end of a work day -- I'm sure I got out there much faster than I could have driven. Then later that night not worrying about an extra glass of wine or two since no one had to drive (and it made the ride back quite a bit of fun) :)

No. Lizardking (the online name of transit tax opponent Jay Morrison) never came by and picked up the e-mails from the city he requested. We haven't heard a word from Tom Ashcraft. They have been very quiet.

I would imagine you won't hear from these guys about this at all any more. Strange how some folks (maybe these guys, maybe not) would be happy at failure, but not happy if the line is actually successful and we spent our money wisely. To me it just shows they really aren't concerned with whether this was a good bang for our buck or tax dollars spent well - - they simply didn't want a choo-choo.

I've been watching Rhino Times since the start of the line as well, you'd think the line didn't exist at all -- no stories. The Mackey situation got them off the hook on that one!!

I'm thinking that there are some large industrial parcels that are prime for TODs directly ajacent to the corridor at 36th St, so hopefully that will be the primary area for redevelopment, and the majority of the existing neaighborhood SE/SW of Davidson St will remain as is.

The plans are already in place...just waiting for the word on the scheduling of the line. If they announce a definite time-line for this and if it gets rolling, you'll see the same thing that is happening in Southend. Many of the tracts are already in the hands of the developers now.

Edited by Charlotte_native
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In my opinion, some of the SUCCESS of the line's opening may have in fact stemmed from the vociferous opposition from what turned out to be a small minority. The noise level about the South Line opening raised the level of public awareness by about 65dB.

I always thought the opposition was too shrill to really listen to, and that using derogatory terms like "train madness" and "Charlotte choo-choo" was not helping people take them seriously. That, plus the perception that west Charlotte residents were hoodwinked into signing the petitions, and the feeling that out-of-town carpetbaggers funded the whole referendum.

A successful repeal should have had a clearer alternative use proposed for the half cent tax. Despite the 2030 plan's warts, it was the only deal on the plate.

Edited by MZT
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^Indeed, and the TVMs are really too complicated for what they need to do which slows down a lot of people too.

Watch someone that is unfamiliar with the machines, and you'll notice they often press one button above the one they should have. I think the angle of the screen confuses people.

I used to make the mistake of putting my fingers on the screen itself. It looks like a touch-screen, right? :rolleyes:

The machines would be better without the screen at all. Good grief, how long has vending machine technology existed and functioned just fine, using only buttons and coin slots?

Edited by MZT
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Great news indeed! Would be interested to see the breakdown of the riders....how many are during traditional rush hour times vs. "special events" like panthers or something at the arena. Would give some insight into how sustainable these numbers are for a year round basis when these events aren't going on. I would expect the rush hour ridership to increase over time as traffic becomes worse and parking becomes more expensive downtown.

Luckly our uptown actually keeps increasing the amount of venues and attraction so I think ridership will only increase. Even though there were surges during Panthers games, those surges should continue during the fall/winter seasons. Off seasons, there will be other events like the soon be baseball games, and I think summer months will attract more riders in general because of the weather. Would be interesting to see those break downs, also break downs of where the riders coming from, whether it is people driving to the trains or people walking because they live/work near the trains, or just people going shopping etc.

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Today the ride in was less crowded than usual (probably due to a blend of weather and the approaching holiday weekend), but the ride out was PACKED...but with good reason. I got to 3rd street station around 4:35 only to hear a public announcement that "the southbound trains will be delayed due to communication difficulties"...so the next scheduled train got skipped, meaning an absolutely packed train about 15 minutes later. None-the-less, we all squeezed in and made it home just fine. Just another wrinkle that had to be ironed out, as one would expect with a new line.

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Just think what a UNCC station would do for the overall numbers. I truly hope the NE line gets built to its full potential REAL soon.

Estimated 3000 just for the on campus station then of course there is the Univ City station that will service the Research Part of Campus also. I think a lot of students will utilize this just to go to the Harris Station for shopping and lunch or the City Blvd and Rocky River Stations for shopping at the IKEA and other stores, let alone uptown's attractions. I know a lot of students that don't have cars and currently only leave campus if someone can drive them.

Envisioning ahead for the NE Extention: I know they aren't far enough in the plans as of now, but does anyone have any education guesses, if at all any, of stations that may receive an "upgraded treatment", or an alternative station look to the ordinary, such as the 3rd Street and CTC stations on the current southern line. I know these stations were partially had private funding, so I personally was wondering if the University might add some pazazz to its station to make it unique, and other possible candidates being the City Blvd station if the private investors in the Crescent Development were interested and maybe the 36th street station (NoDa) adding an alternative arts district feel to it, with a more artsy and expressive design. Other thoughts?

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More impressions and more comments on the ticket machines.

  • The crowds this Saturday were substantially less this weekend at lunch then when I rode the train the weekend following opening weekend. Easy to get a seat both ways.
  • Train cycle was up to 15 min now. My guess is there were 4 or 6 double trains running the route mid-day Saturday.
  • One of the ticket machines was broken (again) at the station that we went to. This time it seemed to be some kind of software error so it wasn't apparent that it wasn't going to deliver a ticket so people were wasting time on it before moving to the working machine.
  • One woman said the TVMs were too confusing for her.
  • TVMs are difficult to use for tall people. Saw one tall guy getting on his knees to feed it money. I understand this was for wheelchair access, but this is an example of a jack of all trades machine. Designed for everything, but because of it, does none of it well.
  • Daily pass for the weekend is $2.60. Price of 2 1-way tickets, so better deal for RT if for better anything else you don't have to use ticket machine again. This price is not marked on the small fare card on the machine so one has to guess when purchasing ticket.
  • CATS should but some big signs on top of the TVMs that clearly explain the fares. A map of the system and were you are on that sign would also be helpful. I realize this stuff is located elsewhere, but it is a huge bit of real estate that isn't being used. This would help people pick the best deal since it isn't apparent once you start the transaction until told pay. (they got it backwards) Some simple things such as this could speed things up considerably. The current fare card is pretty small and located around knee level for most people.
  • Once money is deposited, it's still about 15-20 seconds for the TVM to print two tickets and give change. This is an incredibly long time when people are waiting.
  • The elevated platforms provide absolutely no protection from the elements. Please be sure to dress warmly if you are waiting for a train on one of them.
  • The parking deck in Pineville is nicely done for commuters. They need some attendants out there to direct people to the correct train given that two trains can park there to head back to Charlotte. I saw people get on the wrong train only to be told later to get off and get onto the other train.
  • CATS should get the NCDOT to put it's branded logo on I-77 freeway exit signs where there is a station close by. Unfortunately the design is such that it doesn't lend itself well for this purpose. Do they use CATS or Lynx? It's confusing at best.
  • There should also be a consistent set of clear signs in each station that can be seen from the train that identify each station, the next station and the previous station.
  • It's a fascinating ride through Charlotte. I recommend that anyone go who has not been so far. I honestly think they should rethink the plans to use BRT and street cars and use this technology whenever they build mass transit in the future. (better executed of course)

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  • CATS should get the NCDOT to put it's branded logo on I-77 freeway exit signs where there is a station close by. Unfortunately the design is such that it doesn't lend itself well for this purpose. Do they use CATS or Lynx? It's confusing at best.

Monsoon, I agree with all of your comments and definitely point out valid concerns. The comment I quoted though caught my eye because I recall driving somewhere (can't think where) but saw a sign for the LYNX, and it did say LYNX with the black and gold logo, not CATs. It may have been on either 485 (which I can't recall having to drive down there) or it may have been on 77. It wasn't part of the big exit signs, but it was a stand alone and described which station that was located off the exit. Again, I don't remember well enough where this was but I vaguely remember there being at least one sign somewhere. Maybe more of these will pop up though, especially on 77, since the south line is the parallel and alternative to 77. It would be also nice to maybe include a sign at the 77/485 exchange directing to the South Blvd- Pineville parking garage for the end of the LYNX line.

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The vendor that supplied our much maligned TVM's also supplies them for Houston, LA, NJ Transit, Dubai Transit, and Berlin Transit among many others. I would think with as much history and experience that they have with TVM's they would be able to make the ones in our city work right. ACS must have put their worst employees working on our TVM's cause I don't know any other way to explain how crappy they have been.

It is clearly obvious that the machine is being overloaded by just printing out one ticket. There is a scroll at the bottom of the screen that has the date and time going by. That scroll staggers and then comes to a complete stop while your ticket is being printed. I could understand if they were using the 20 y/o computers that run the exibits at Discovery Place...but the processing time on these things is completely unacceptable.

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I know these stations were partially had private funding, so I personally was wondering if the University might add some pazazz to its station to make it unique, and other possible candidates being the City Blvd station if the private investors in the Crescent Development were interested and maybe the 36th street station (NoDa) adding an alternative arts district feel to it, with a more artsy and expressive design. Other thoughts?

I would expect this to happen. The University has a lot invested already in this system, and it's definitely in their best interests to make the stations attractive. This should be a priority on multiple fronts, not least of which is its value in recruiting -- nobody wants to go to a school with a ghetto-looking public transit stop in its central campus. But a flashy-looking train station is something you put in the admissions materials.

I wouldn't be surprised if the university approaches a few wealthy donors to make large gifts for this purpose.

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got back from the Panthers game. Man, there was a lot of people on the light rail leaving the game. We were literally packed like sardines. Most everyone seem to be getting off the 485 station since not many people actually got off in between. There were many long faces (Panthers fans, myself included) and many Cowboy fans. The ride was pretty cool and it didn't seem like the rail didn't move very fast, but it did. The walk home actually took longer than the uptown to arrowood station. All in all, enjoyable ride, but sour taste due to Panthers losing.

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I think it would help if they had more than one TVM on each side of the platforms at the highest volume stations.

In an Observer article today, it says they are adding 2 more TVM's to the 485 station in addition to the manual ticket station that Monsoon mentioned. They said they purchased 36 TVM's in all, 3 being spares. With the 485 station using 2 of the 3, there still is one more spare left over. I hope that they get these worked out and then consider purchasing more for the other busy stations.

There is other good news in that article that reacts to the concerns that we have had on this board and in the public eye. Trains may run a few minutes more often during lunch or run some double trains; also Fri and Sat's they are considering running a last train at 1:30 (for nightlife traffic) and this one would go all the way to the 485 station instead of just going to the homebase.

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