Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[monsoon]

.....

As to defining success, ask 50 people in Charlotte if the line is a success, and I think you'll find 40-45 of them will say yes.

Realistically, I would think they would say "I don't know".

Meanwhile in other news the Trolley is averaging 102 riders every Saturday (the entire day) and 91 Riders on Sundays. Is this a wise investment of transit dollars? I'm begining to wonder if it is. If they were able to run Car 85 I could see the nostalgia/tourist aspect...but when the trolleys they run are only a couple years old...and are sometimes running literally empty. I'm not sure I see the point in continuing operation.

I agree. There are so many other needs for this money. These things serve no practical purpose other than an amusement ride now. An not that many people seem to be interested even in that. They really ought to think about ressurecting these things elsewhere.

[Raintree21]

Meanwhile in other news the Trolley is averaging 102 riders every Saturday (the entire day) and 91 Riders on Sundays. Is this a wise investment of transit dollars? I'm begining to wonder if it is. If they were able to run Car 85 I could see the nostalgia/tourist aspect...but when the trolleys they run are only a couple years old...and are sometimes running literally empty. I'm not sure I see the point in continuing operation.

I agree. There are so many other needs for this money. These things serve no practical purpose other than an amusement ride now. An not that many people seem to be interested even in that. They really ought to think about ressurecting these things elsewhere.

Yet another reason for them to move them over to Elizabeth Avenue once the redevelopment is finished. At least they would be used heavily and serve a purpose.

[tozmervo]

I gotta tell you guys what happened on the train this morning. It was the 7:52 train heading inbound. I got on at 485 and stood in the back. At I believe Archdale a man tried getting on the train with a shopping cart full of big boxes and some bags. The conductor got on the p/a and told the guy he couldn't bring the cart onboard, so the guy started unloading these boxes from the cart and putting them on the train. We all watched in disbelief. There must've been 10 or more big boxes, maybe 10 small boxes, and some bags of something. As it turned out, the bigger boxes were cases of beer, the smaller boxes were cases of cigarettes, and the bags were full of raw shrimp. This guy planned to take these somewhere to sell them. It took him maybe 2-3 minutes to load everything on the train. We couldn't believe it. Finally we started moving again and this guy stood there with his boxes, smiling and asking at least twice why everyone was in a bad mood and nobody was smiling. "It's Friday," he said, "cheer up and smile!"

So at New Bern he decided it was time to get off the train. Of course, New Bern's stations are on the outside of the train, so he had to unload all of these boxes from the far side of the traincar. More than one fellow passenger helped him get his boxes out, for the sake of speeding up the process. When he was finally done he cheerfully thanked those that helped and asked if anyone wanted a beer on him. We all politely smiled and chuckled at what we thought was a joke...until he broke open a case of Budweiser, grabbed a bottle in each hand, and ran back to the open train door, offering the beer to anyone that would take it. At first everyone resisted but then people started taking the beer, probably just hoping it would help get rid of this guy quicker...BUT...he went back to the case of beer, grabbed a couple more, came back to the train, and offered them up. By the time he was done he had probably passed out 8 beers. He then ran to the next train door up, and did the same thing. Finally the conductor managed to close the doors, and as we pulled away from the station we could see this guy giving a couple of beers to some Pepsi employees, through the barbed wire fence. It was crazy. And there we were, all laughing and smiling about it, with a train full of people holding beers.

But I thought the funniest part of the whole thing was that there was this older woman not far from me on the train who was riding for the first time. She wasn't even sure which stop was hers but she knew she had to get to BofA Corporate Center. As this whole crazy event unfolded she was asking "I've never been on here before...is it like this all the time???" Could you imagine something like this being your first impression of the light rail?

Oh lord. You must have been one or two trains ahead of me. When I got to New Bern this morning to board, myself and the other people waiting were wondering what the hell was going on with that guy. His boxes were scattered all over the platform, and he was still chatting away with the Pepsi people. In fact, he pulled two large zip lock bags full of.. something.. out of one of the boxes and handed them through the barbed wire. I think he sold them two cases of Corona, too.

Yeah, you don't get that kind of entertainment commuting on the Interstate.

[cltheel.sdl]

^ That's a great story. Were people opening them on the train? I can see that being a good Bud commercial. It made me think of the Coors train commercials, if you've ever seen them.

LYNX really does bring people together!

[QueenCityLegend]

Oh lord. You must have been one or two trains ahead of me. When I got to New Bern this morning to board, myself and the other people waiting were wondering what the hell was going on with that guy. His boxes were scattered all over the platform, and he was still chatting away with the Pepsi people. In fact, he pulled two large zip lock bags full of.. something.. out of one of the boxes and handed them through the barbed wire. I think he sold them two cases of Corona, too.

Yeah, you don't get that kind of entertainment commuting on the Interstate.

That's pretty crazy stuff, especially for daytime activity. The craziest thing I've ever seen on the light rail was some drunk ugly Tranny yelling on the last train of the night.

My question is, during the busy morning rush have you ever seen ticket inspectors? I assume it would be the same situation, with speed street where the trains are too packed to check for tickets. I rode numerous 1am trains on Thursday and Friday night and I've never seen a single ticket inspector or policeman. I remember asking a Lynx official about why they dont put Police on the last train. He told me that originally their were, but they starting accuring overtime and going over-budget.

One more question, Once Epicentre fully opens (I believe sometime next summer), do you see CATS extending the last train to at least 2am, during the summer time? I know that 31 businesses in Epicentre have applied for Liqour licenses (4 of them being: Whiskey River,Suite,Howl at the Moon, BlackFinn). I expect a big uptown crowd next summer once Epicentre fully opens.

Dean

[tozmervo]

That's pretty crazy stuff, especially for daytime activity. The craziest thing I've ever seen on the light rail was some drunk ugly Tranny yelling on the last train of the night.

My question is, during the busy morning rush have you ever seen ticket inspectors? I assume it would be the same situation, with speed street where the trains are too packed to check for tickets. I rode numerous 1am trains on Thursday and Friday night and I've never seen a single ticket inspector or policeman. I remember asking a Lynx official about why they dont put Police on the last train. He told me that originally their were, but they starting accuring overtime and going over-budget.

One more question, Once Epicentre fully opens (I believe sometime next summer), do you see CATS extending the last train to at least 2am, during the summer time? I know that 31 businesses in Epicentre have applied for Liqour licenses (4 of them being: Whiskey River,Suite,Howl at the Moon, BlackFinn). I expect a big uptown crowd next summer once Epicentre fully opens.

Dean

I very rarely see ticket inspectors during either rush hour. Maybe once a month. When I do see them everyone seems to be ticketed. I think CATS figured out letting 1 or 2% (if that) of passengers slip through unticketed is far more cost effective than paying inspectors.

As to the schedule, I would be very surprised if we don't see increased service frequency after 6:30 soon. I have been continually surprised by how busy the trains remain late into the evening. Just yesterday I was on a very full 9p train leaving uptown. 20 leads were fine when it opened, but I think we've outgrown that by now.

[Nostyle]

^ That's a great story. Were people opening them on the train? I can see that being a good Bud commercial. It made me think of the Coors train commercials, if you've ever seen them.

LYNX really does bring people together!

I don't think anyone actually opened their beer on the train. Most people only grabbed them to be polite, although one gentleman sitting at the back definitely sounded eager to get a beer as they were being handed out. The guy almost shattered a bottle on one of the handrails while trying to distribute them. But no, I didn't hear the distinct sound of a bottle being opened while on the train.

A woman standing near me who had gotten a bottle said that it felt very warm. Who knows where that beer had come from.

That's pretty crazy stuff, especially for daytime activity. The craziest thing I've ever seen on the light rail was some drunk ugly Tranny yelling on the last train of the night.

My question is, during the busy morning rush have you ever seen ticket inspectors? I assume it would be the same situation, with speed street where the trains are too packed to check for tickets. I rode numerous 1am trains on Thursday and Friday night and I've never seen a single ticket inspector or policeman. I remember asking a Lynx official about why they dont put Police on the last train. He told me that originally their were, but they starting accuring overtime and going over-budget.

One more question, Once Epicentre fully opens (I believe sometime next summer), do you see CATS extending the last train to at least 2am, during the summer time? I know that 31 businesses in Epicentre have applied for Liqour licenses (4 of them being: Whiskey River,Suite,Howl at the Moon, BlackFinn). I expect a big uptown crowd next summer once Epicentre fully opens.

Dean

One time I saw an inspector actually check tickets on a packed rush hour single train. It was an outbound train. The inspector was that short, white, mildly crater-faced rent-a-cop, if any of you know who I'm talking about. On the topic of checking tickets, I haven't been checked at all for the entire month of June, and I am a daily rider.

[QueenCityLegend]

Just yesterday I was on a very full 9p train leaving uptown. 20 leads were fine when it opened, but I think we've outgrown that by now.

Is the day you mentioned at Thursday? I would think that Alive @ 5 & Epicentre @ 5, had a big role in why the 9pm train was so packed. Is that about the time, those 2 things end?

[MZT]

I drove to work for the first time in several months, and an odd realization hit me - that I get more exercise driving than taking the train. The distance from the LYNX parking lot to a station is negligible. Then it's just a block and a half to my desk.

When I drive, I usually take the cheaper fringe lots on Carson street or 8th street.

[Nostyle]

^I used to do the same thing...park in South End. But eventually I found myself jumping on a Gold Rush anyways. For me, the bigger motivation is the money I'm saving (averaging $1.80 round trip versus paying $3 in parking, not to mention gas) and the ease of the commute (daydreaming on a train rather than being stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic).

[monsoon]

I was on the train yesterday about noon. It was approximately 95-99 degrees in this part of Charlotte with full sun. At the station where I was stopped there were two people who were complaining about the very poor design of the stations in regards to providing protection from the elements. All of the benches were in the direct sun as the decorative and expensive canopies gave absolutely no protection from the sun and heat. I have to admit that it was quite brutal, and I was dressed in shorts and a tee shirt. I can't imagine using these things in a business suit at this time of day.

My other beef is that CATS really needs to run trains more frequently, especially during the business day, if they ever expect to get significant numbers of people, other that park and riders, using this system.

On the ticket checking issue, I did get checked by a CATs transit cop.

[Andyc545]

CATs has put up their spring edition newsletter with a small report during for the PE stage of the NE Line. You can view it here. Nothing very new, just promoting that it's coming on decision time for where to place stations and route decisions, as well as some interesting poll figures following up when CATs was on the UNCC campus.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Andyc545

[Nostyle]

I was on the train yesterday about noon. It was approximately 95-99 degrees in this part of Charlotte with full sun. At the station where I was stopped there were two people who were complaining about the very poor design of the stations in regards to providing protection from the elements. All of the benches were in the direct sun as the decorative and expensive canopies gave absolutely no protection from the sun and heat. I have to admit that it was quite brutal, and I was dressed in shorts and a tee shirt. I can't imagine using these things in a business suit at this time of day.

This has been discussed before. If you make the stops too cozy then you get homeless people taking shelter there. Either way there's an excuse for people to feel uncomfortable at the station, whether it be the extreme heat/cold and lack of shelter or the smelly, hairy guy with the shopping cart full of cans that just asked you for change. Can't please everyone.

[Spartan]

That really depends upon one's definition of success. It has become a very expensive mechanism for people to avoid having to pay for parking downtown. Hence the overloaded parking lots at the very end of the line. It has not so far, become a vehicle for people who live along the line to give up their cars as demonstrated by the almost abandoned stations between the two ends. If the goal was to truly provide a train for people to get from I-485 to downtown, then they could have done it for far less money by building a commuter rail train instead of light rail.

Your cynicism about the Lynx is unquestionably consistent and I'm impressed that you continue to maintain the perspectives that you have despite evidence of the opposite in most every regard. I am curious- do you also assume that all people who take express buses into center city are doing so simply because they don't want pay to park there? For that matter do you assume the same for local buses?

But here's the main point- even if they are parking for that reason, is that a bad thing? Considering that 80% of Charlotteans live in cul-de-sac subdivisions -many with SUV's or at least 1 car per driver in each house- how can we realistically expect things to change within a few months? I think that the situation you are describing, while very plausible, is just the interim scenario that we have to deal with before enough real change occurs in the built environment that we can actually function in this city without a car. The Lynx line was built not just for commuters, but to provide opportunity for the private sector to build density and rebuild the existing urban environment to a less auto-dependent environment. Its already happening. It will simply take some time before we have a cohesive system.

485 and Sharon Rd P+Rs have a combined 1,308 parking spaces according to the CATS website. Generously speaking, lets say that they're actually parking 1,600. So that's 3,200 trips. That still leaves 13,039 trips in the system (based on the May numbers). Just how abandoned are the stations between? Even if you start subtracting out the cars from the other lots, you'd still be left with quite a number of folks that didn't just drive to the station avoid paying for parking downtown.

You're assuming everyone is coming to the park and ride lots in SOVs (Single Occupancy Vehicles). What percentage are carpooling?

As to defining success, ask 50 people in Charlotte if the line is a success, and I think you'll find 40-45 of them will say yes.

CATS is going to conduct a survey on this very issue in July.

[monsoon]

Your cynicism about the Lynx is unquestionably consistent and I'm impressed that you continue to maintain the perspectives that you have despite evidence of the opposite in most every regard.....

That is your opinion where you obviously mistake my criticism of bad management towards being anti-rail. You may not have read my topic on why we need to continue to build light rail. I would suggest that you stop making these things personal and stick to addressing what was posted.

[Spartan]

It was certainly not my intention to make it personal, and I apologize if I came off that way. Your post appeared to be directed at the general populous and the built environment- not towards the management of the system. The majority of my post however, (except than the sentence you quoted), was directed at addressing and debating your assertions and assumptions. Keeping on topic- I'm still interested to know what you think about my questions and thoughts.

[staffer]

There is a flickr group for photos of the Lynx South line. Looks to be 500+ photos up already

[QueenCityLegend]

There is a flickr group for photos of the Lynx South line. Looks to be 500+ photos up already

I read somewhere, that CATS will be running shuttles from CTC to Memorial Staduim for the Red, White & Boom celebration. My question is to you think that Lynx(running on a Sunday schedule/last train departing uptown at midnight instead of 1am) will be extra busy or will it be a normal amount of traffic on the light rail tomorrow night?

Dean

[Raintree21]

I read somewhere, that CATS will be running shuttles from CTC to Memorial Staduim for the Red, White & Boom celebration. My question is to you think that Lynx(running on a Sunday schedule/last train departing uptown at midnight instead of 1am) will be extra busy or will it be a normal amount of traffic on the light rail tomorrow night?

Dean

You probably read it either in The O or in the July 4th thread in the Coffeehouse.

They are running on a Sunday schedule on a Friday night? I just read that too. Why? I know it's a holiday and that's standard practice on holidays since commuter traffic is often down, but they will probably be slammed. A major holiday occuring on a Friday night with good weather forecasted will result in massive crowds.

[Raintree21]

Anybody ride Lynx last night? How did it hold up with the fireworks crowd? I know the rain probably kept a lot of people away.

[tozmervo]

God help me, they're finally finishing the landscaping. New Bern looks much better with all of its shiny new trees.

[grodney]

Slight problems on the light rail this morning. The driver announced that they were having a loss of power in the tracks, and apparently thus a loss of signaling, so she was having to go to NVR Mode (?) and go at 10mph until she got power/signaling back. Or something.

In all, we probably slowed down 3 or 4 times, and my trip from 485 to Stonewall took 3 or 4 minutes longer than usual.

It appeared to be nearly impacting schedules, though, as the 6:30 train from 485, which is usually sitting there waiting, didn't arrive at 485 until about 6:28.

(Oh, and the trees aren't planted at Scaleybark yet, so maybe they're making their way South with that effort.)

Edited July 9, 2008 by grodney

[MZT]

Yeah I was riding it in the storms last night at 10 mph as all that lightning was cracking around us. There were a couple of occasions that they simply stopped the trains and held them at stations.

[atlrvr]

Those new trees at New Bern are what, 2 inch saplings at best? They don't have a snowball's chance in hell of surving a Charlotte summer in those planters surrounded by that hot concrete.

[uptownliving]

Slight problems on the light rail this morning. The driver announced that they were having a loss of power in the tracks, and apparently thus a loss of signaling, so she was having to go to NVR Mode (?) and go at 10mph until she got power/signaling back. Or something.

Yeah I noticed they had signs out at the stations today apologizing for the level of service. The sign stated that several lightning strikes yesterday severely impacted the signal system. I saw on WCNC yesterday they said there were almost 1000 lightning strikes in the metro within 10 minutes time. Thankfully an electrical storm like the one we had don't happen every day.