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Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line


dubone

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The GOP members of the board would not have voted to end the tax. The whole reason it took a signature drive, was there was no political will to repeal it. I do think a GOP majority would have roped in Tober faster, though instead of leaving the south line on auto-pilot.

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The GOP members of the board would not have voted to end the tax. The whole reason it took a signature drive, was there was no political will to repeal it. I do think a GOP majority would have roped in Tober faster, though instead of leaving the south line on auto-pilot.

No they didn't have the votes to do it. 4 GOP vs 5 democrats that said they would vote against it. This was the platform the GOP ran on last fall and said if they had a majority, they would move to vote out the tax. In any case, the point is the county council always has the right to end this tax when it pleases and they are always just one election away from doing so.

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On the earlier comment about the Senate budget, this is a suggested budget that has not been resolved with the House and and the President. It has a long ways to go before the money is actually approved. The money will be used to determine if it is finacially feasible to build the NE line. It is certainly not an indication that it will be built or not.

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My personal Notes from the latest Blue Line Extention meeting:

- They want to move the 16th St station north a block to Parkwood and Brevard. CATS says the new site will better accomidate buses.

- They want to move the 36th St station so that it is just South of 36th St along the NCRR alignment. This is being done so it won't interfere with the Johnston and Mecklenburg Mill. There is also a possibilty that they will have to move the station to the other side of the tracks to avoid some historical structures.

-Reading the tealeaves it doesn't look like the Sugar Creek alignment to N Tryon is going to happen. That alignment would require 2 large bridges at Asian Corners coming onto N Tryon and again to cross the Eastway/Tryon intersection. The cost of those bridges will likely outweigh the Economic Development potential....but the final decision won't be made till the end of this year.

-NCRR is going to supress Sugar Creek Rd so that it will go under the current NCRR tracks. They are going to do this regardless of what CATS decides to do. If CATS goes with the NCRR alignment then there will be a station on the future bridge over Sugar Creek Rd.

-They want to combine the City Blvd and Harris stations into 1 station at McCullough.

-The alignment to UNCC has been slighly altered to allow more land along N Tryon to be developed by UNCC. In partnership with UNCC they are suggesting that the Mallard Creek station be moved East close to the intersection of Mallard Creek Church Rd and Stone Quarry Road. This is land already owned by UNCC and this is where they plan to expand the campus in the future. So basically UNCC will have 2 stops.

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This was the platform the GOP ran on last fall and said if they had a majority, they would move to vote out the tax.

I think that's an eggageration. There were never 4 definate votes on the board to end the sales tax. Just a lot of grousing about how the money was being managed, and the opportunity to "talk tough" behind a safe wall of 5 Democrat's votes.

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I think that's an eggageration. There were never 4 definate votes on the board to end the sales tax. .....
That's because it never came up for a vote. But this was the platform of the GOP at the time. They got a clarification that was presented at the Oct 6, 2006 board meeting. I do need to correct myself. The county council can't vote to end the tax, but they can vote to put it up for public vote I think 1/year.
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At least David Hartgen should be accessible enough to get public comment. It is odd how these people's names have disappeared from the media. The only exception that I've noticed is Jim Puckett did comment that he was pleased with the success of the line, and that his intentions in having the tax repealed was to give the public an opportunity to see how well the line was received before proceeding.

I have a feeling Hartgen would say something along the lines of "Highways are still more efficient than trains, and that since the train operates at a deficit, it should be considered a failure"

I was just wondering where David Hartgen was in this discussion. His solutions to urban planning are rooted in flawed concepts.

The problem of course is that we live in a city where there are no real city wide urban development plans that would attempt to leverage a transit system to make real change. So because of that we don't have hard set measurable goals for the agency and there is no way to measure how it affects the city.

If you look only at the transit line and what happens within its ROW, then yes. But urban planners know that the relationship between transportation and land-use is reciprocal. Thats the whole concept behind the Centers and Corridors development strategy. The LRT is currently exactly as you describe it, but ultimately it will spur more dense development and more real urban development patterns. Its going to take a long time to rebuild this city in to what it needs to be, but the long term effects will be VERY measurable.

- They want to move the 36th St station so that it is just South of 36th St along the NCRR alignment. This is being done so it won't interfere with the Johnston and Mecklenburg Mill. There is also a possibilty that they will have to move the station to the other side of the tracks to avoid some historical structures.

-Reading the tealeaves it doesn't look like the Sugar Creek alignment to N Tryon is going to happen. That alignment would require 2 large bridges at Asian Corners coming onto N Tryon and again to cross the Eastway/Tryon intersection. The cost of those bridges will likely outweigh the Economic Development potential....but the final decision won't be made till the end of this year.

-NCRR is going to supress Sugar Creek Rd so that it will go under the current NCRR tracks. They are going to do this regardless of what CATS decides to do. If CATS goes with the NCRR alignment then there will be a station on the future bridge over Sugar Creek Rd.

NCRR is planning for the SE High Speed Rail corridor through Charlotte, so CATS is having to do some major coordination with them. I've heard various things about 36th St. It may even have to be a raised station to accommodate every line that needs to go through that area. Its all is still up in the air at this point (no pun in tended).

I'm excited to hear that CATS got $18 million. The north half of the blue line should be much less controversial.

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That's because it never came up for a vote. But this was the platform of the GOP at the time. They got a clarification that was presented at the Oct 6, 2006 board meeting. I do need to correct myself. The county council can't vote to end the tax, but they can vote to put it up for public vote I think 1/year.

Isn't how the repeal of the transit tax started? The Democratic majority on the Board of Commissioners wouldn't let the GOPs bring up the issue of putting it to a public referendum and the only other way around was to collect a petition and present it to Board of Elections.

They want to move the 16th St station north a block to Parkwood and Brevard. CATS says the new site will better accomidate buses.

They want to combine the City Blvd and Harris stations into 1 station at McCullough.

A neighbor of a family of mine who stays in Optimist Park on 19th Street said CATS officials have contacted her before about relocating the 16th Street and the new station would be located across from her on Parkwood and it wasn't clear if they will have to aqquire her property or not to perhaps do some improvements to Parkwood.

I hope CATS would only combine the City Blvd and Harris stations only to save money, but the City Blvd station would be closer to the new Wal-Mart site than McCullough or Rocky River stations.

Edited by Shawn&Zae
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Nothing major but cnn.com has a story today about rising demand for mass transit across the nation and Charlotte is given a nod. It mentions the increased ridership on the light rail and the ordering of new buses by the city. Not too spectacular, but I was pleasantly surprised to come across the story.

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Nothing major but cnn.com has a story today about rising demand for mass transit across the nation and Charlotte is given a nod. It mentions the increased ridership on the light rail and the ordering of new buses by the city. Not too spectacular, but I was pleasantly surprised to come across the story.

http://cnn.com/2008/US/07/16/mass.transit/...iref=newssearch

I saw that article/story, too, and while the theme is obvious to most of us at the surface, it is not something that I had explicitly thought through in this economy.

It deals with the subject that it terms the 'paradox of mass transit'. While the article's reference to CATS is fairly meaningless, the implications of this 'paradox' on our city's transit system are fairly deep. Basically, we fund mass transit through the sales tax, something that is sure to see dramatic reductions in revenue as we hit recession and as people spend more of their disposable income on fuel rather than goods and services that pay sales tax.

Likewise, we are obviously seeing huge increases in costs to run the bus system, although, luckily not as much increase in running the light rail line which has the largest bulk of our transit riders.

So, at a point when we want to extend the blue line NE to further help citizens avoid commutes in automobiles, it will likely have a harder time being funded due to lower revenues from the sales tax.

We'll have to see what the actual results are for the tax, and whether this national boom in transit use will spur an increase in federal budgeting to offset reductions in local funds.

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Regardless of the economic issues, it is good that we are going through the steps of refining the NE line. Although I missed the public meetings, I must say that I agree with all of the changes being discussed so far. Primarily, I agree with staying on the NCRR corridor all the way to Eastway, considering the stations themselves were not going to be significantly more convenient to the area. The Sugar Creek Station on the new bridge is just as likely to spur a redevelopment of Asian Corners as a station on the land, and has the added benefit of not contraining the development with the operating transit line on the property.

I also am glad to hear that they are refining the station locations in the University City area, too, as some of the original selections seemed a bit odd, especially the station at Harris itself.

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The NC Tourism Division is now pitching the Blue line as a tourist attraction

A snip from the promo piece:

".....Now, visitors to Charlotte are also discovering the convenience of light rail, which allows people to attend events, go shopping, or spend an evening out on the town without the hassle and expense of finding or paying for parking. In fact, with a light rail station just steps away from the Time-Warner Cable Arena, visitors and residents have been able to enjoy professional and collegiate sports, see big-name concerts (such as The Rolling Stones, U2, and Tim McGraw), or attend family events like the Doodlebops without having to drive Uptown at all.

.....

Here are a few ideas for a day (or night) of exploring the Queen City by light rail.

....."

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A quick rant: I was walking a lot yesterday in the heat and eventually became very thirsty. When I made it to the East/West Blvd station I went to sip a drink at one of the public water fountains on the stations (which would have been a great addition) however to find no water to came out of any of the ones at the station leaving me in disrepair and angered. Does anyone know if these water fountains are off due to drought conditions. I couldn't believe that they would be allowed to not have water running at public fountains. Also they installed the trees at a few more of the stations. They are quite small and weak, contrary to the nice large shaded trees that were always showed in renderings. If they just installed something that would grow to provide shade, it would have helped with the summer heat and mitigate the lack of protection from the station coverings, but no, they opted to install trees that do next to nothing but provide some greenery. End of rant...

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While I don't mind the trees starting out small, the water fountain thing does bother me. The ones at Carson don't work either. I don't know why they would have paid that much for custom water fountains if they aren't even going to bother hooking them up.

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I recently attended the public meeting on the North East light rail expansion, CATS is currently considering moving the proposed 16th street station down the block to Parkwood and Brevard. I live in this neighboorhood and there are several reasons why I am against the proposed realignment. 1st. It effects over 200 residents living along 15th and 16th street. Instead of having to just cross the street they would have to walk a 1/4 of a mile to access the light rail. 2nd, it cuts off any access to North Tryon the next available stop will be North Tryon and 36th Street and that stop is a 1/4 mile away from the proposed light rail station. 3rd It prevents the houses/apartments on the other side of North Davidson street along 15th street and Meyers from having easy access to the light rail. Hopefully Cats will take these concerns into consideration before relocating the station.

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A quick rant: I was walking a lot yesterday in the heat and eventually became very thirsty. When I made it to the East/West Blvd station I went to sip a drink at one of the public water fountains on the stations (which would have been a great addition) however to find no water to came out of any of the ones at the station leaving me in disrepair and angered. Does anyone know if these water fountains are off due to drought conditions. I couldn't believe that they would be allowed to not have water running at public fountains.

While I don't mind the trees starting out small, the water fountain thing does bother me. The ones at Carson don't work either. I don't know why they would have paid that much for custom water fountains if they aren't even going to bother hooking them up.

Have either of you filled out a complaint/comment form for CATS about it? They may not even know about it. Half of the time, everyone assumes that someone else has done it and nobody ever does...

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Have you ever walked 16th to Tryon from Parkwood? It's a railyard, not exactly a prime walking route. Maybe the move will add more Belmont and Villa Heights riders, who can walk Parkwood down to the station. I think 16th is buried too deep in Optimist Park, while Brevard adds more visibility to multiple neighborhoods.

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Have you ever walked 16th to Tryon from Parkwood? It's a railyard, not exactly a prime walking route. Maybe the move will add more Belmont and Villa Heights riders, who can walk Parkwood down to the station. I think 16th is buried too deep in Optimist Park, while Brevard adds more visibility to multiple neighborhoods.

The intermodal rail yard is supposed to be moved to the airport.

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The intermodal rail yard is supposed to be moved to the airport.

The intermodal yard for moving freight from trucks to trains, yes. The multiple railroad tracks for carrying freight trains crossing 16th, no.

Even if left at 16th, Optimist Park residents would still have to cross Parkwood and then still walk an additional long block west towards a no-man's land of multiple tracks. Or they could walk three short blocks north and cross Parkwood directly at the new station location.

That is to say, CATS is not only considering moving the station north, they are also looking at moving the line east. In other words, the line would run along Brevard, similar to LYNX next to Camden Road in South End, or in the front of the "truck yard" instead of in back of it. That's the difference to me between creating an East/West-looking station (or Remount that never happened) for Optimist Park, instead of a New Bern-hidden station. But then again, not even New Bern abuts active freight lines, that's more like Sharon Road West.

So you could say the move also puts rider origins on both sides of the station, instead of everyone walking to/from the east, albeit a much shorter walk for those living just west of the station in new TOD on the intermodal site. In other words, the moving of the line affords more balanced circles of TOD. With its wide multi-rail crossing remaining, 16th would likely not catalyze development towards Tryon. Of course, neither will the new location, but at least it puts the station between the biggest TOD site (intermodal yard) and the neighborhood, instead of burying the station behind the TOD site.

Edited by southslider
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Have you ever walked 16th to Tryon from Parkwood? It's a railyard, not exactly a prime walking route. Maybe the move will add more Belmont and Villa Heights riders, who can walk Parkwood down to the station. I think 16th is buried too deep in Optimist Park, while Brevard adds more visibility to multiple neighborhoods.

Lets get to the real issue here. SCOTTER's point is that 16th St is better for Optimist Park, aka better for him and his neighborhood. I totally respect that opinion in that I would want a station just for my neighborhood too. But I can see why the move to Parkwood & Brevard has advantages:

  1. 16th St goes to nothing important on Tryon St.
  2. Belmont will likely use 18th St to access Parkwood to get to either station location, so it makes no difference which two blocks they walk. Either way its still more that 1/4 mile for them.
  3. A "Parkwood & Brevard" Station would provide access and encourage a lot more redevelopment between 22nd and Matheson.
  4. 1/4 mile walk? That is a nationally accepted minimum standard walking distance to transit so no sympathy there.

Another thought.... what if Parkwood could be connected to Dalton while removing 16th St (after the yards move obviously)? That would be an extremely advantageous t-fare connection to make IMO.

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The intermodal yard for moving freight from trucks to trains, yes. The multiple railroad tracks for carrying freight trains crossing 16th, no.

Even if left at 16th, Optimist Park residents would still have to cross Parkwood and then still walk an additional long block west towards a no-man's land of multiple tracks. Or they could walk three short blocks north and cross Parkwood directly at the new station location.

That is to say, CATS is not only considering moving the station north, they are also looking at moving the line east. In other words, the line would run along Brevard, similar to LYNX next to Camden Road in South End, or in the front of the "truck yard" instead of in back of it.

Aren't the multiple tracks there soley because of the intermodal yard? They serve no other purpose. Same thing with the truck yard right? They would be removed when the yard is moved so it shouldn't be an issue.

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Aren't the multiple tracks there soley because of the intermodal yard? They serve no other purpose. Same thing with the truck yard right? They would be removed when the yard is moved so it shouldn't be an issue.

There are actually two different railroads -- the North Carolina Railroad (NCRR) and the Aberdeen Carolina and Western (ACW). The NCRR tracks are leased to Norfolk Southern which is the operating company The ACW veers off to the Northeast at about 36th Street. The NS uses, in addition to the yard tracks, two or three thru tracks that serve freight and AMTRAK. If Southeast High Speed Rail ever arrives, this will necessitate two more tracks that do not mix with freight. The NCRR has a 200 foot ROW, the ACW has some of its own ROW but also shares some of the NCRR. This is why negotiations for the Northeast line will be complicated.

Not to mention that the CSX crosses the NCRR ROW just north of 277. The plan for the Northeast extension is a bridge OVER the CSX.

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Can anyone explain their system to deal with lightning/power outages? On my way back from Avenue Q (which is AWESOME btw), the train was running delayed past East/West Blvd. It would go at slow speed for a ways, then come to a near stop, then go again, rinse and repeat. It came to a near stop at least 3 times between E/W and New Bern, and there was no lightning to speak of in the immediate area. Do they have some kind of special electrical switching system in place that only powers the sections of tracks that trains are on?

* Its worth mentioning that, at E/W blvd, the conductor warned of us the impending delay. He said the train would be running 3-4 minutes late all the way to Arrowood.

Edited by tozmervo
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