Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[carolinagarnet]

I live in DC and we have boards listing the ETAs of the next trains. They are really useful, particularly when services is more infrequent (e.g. late at night). The only problem we face is that our metro is underground, so you do not have many options if the next train is delayed since you have already passed the turnstiles. Signs would work well in Charlotte, however, since the stops are outside and often located near restaurants, bars, shops, etc.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

The good thing about the DC Metro is you can just get online and know when the next train or bus is coming. I don't leave my apartment or office until I check NextBus or the Metro site to see when the next bus or train will arrive.

[Spartan]

Google Maps and the CATS app/website list the exact times the LYNX trains depart from each station and they have the timetable posted at each ticket machine. It's pretty easy to figure out. I do agree that it would be nice to see the time to arrival on the scrolling things at each station though.

[kermit]

My trip to look around the DNC produced two lynx related surprises. The first was that CATS had blocked the tracks through the convention center with rail service vehicles (I hope I don't end up on a list for posting that).

The second was they were running a lynx shuttle in the intown portion of the route. I couldn't get close enough to see details but I saw it at both the transportation center and 3rd street stations. A _very_ short walk.

[kermit]

Nice article from Tampa which contrasted the efficiency of moving convention folks in Tampa vs. Charlotte. The article blames many of the RNC's transportation problems on the absence of LRT (and their rejection of a transit tax in a recent vote)

About 250 buses will be used to move nearly 6,000 delegates to DNC events. In Tampa, 400 buses were used to ferry 2,200 delegates, a plan that was later deemed insufficient after several buses were late for several state delegations, including New Jersey, Utah and Florida.

Despite their direct experience, Sunshine state republicans remain reluctant to support rail transit:

Even with those mishaps, Republicans like Thomas Hogan, a state committeeman from Brooksville, said there are too many unknowns that accompany rail, and he still favors getting around in buses.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/light-rail-helps-charlotte-avoid-tampas-bus-woes/1249759

[Sabaidee]

The delegation shuttles were using the CATS busway on Independence last night around 1AM for queuing and using the Independence off ramp to John Belk to 4th Exit. I thought it was weird looking but yet interesting to see buses parked on the exit ramp over I-277.

[Third Strike]

I did some volunteering work in a hotel off of North Tryon, in University City, and it was interesting to think how much smoothly transit would have been to Uptown, if this leg of the light rail was running. The buses that came by the hotel were not consistent, and even at some intervals, did not show up at all. We also had some people who drove out to some of the Park and Rides on the Blue Line, which was a good 20 minute or so drive, especially since they had to bypass Uptown. I really hope the next time Charlotte has another big even like this (political convention, sports convention, etc.), we'll have a even more robust transit system. At the very least, having the Red Line and second leg of the Blue Line running. The Streetcar would have also made it easier to transverse parts of Center City as well.

On another note, can we expect construction on the Blue Line by the end of next year, or early 2014? What other funding/grants/paperwork needs to be done before the next phase of the light-rail commences?

[dubone]

We need a Full Funding Grant Agreement, the final approval from the feds to get the funds to build it. That is expected within the next 2 months. Then it is due to begin construction in 2014, ending in 2017 (edited).

I definitely believe that they should have a secondary path that runs along Carson to the N-S corridor, passing Gateway Station, and using the N-S corridor to reconnect with the Blue Line corridor. Have a secondary path through downtown not only retains service when the arena or Convention center have a secured event like this, but also can used to unify our transit system.

That said, I doubt there will be many events that have quite such a lock down. This was unique in that it had Prez and VP together in the same place, in addition to hundreds of other very important officials of government. That is unlikely to happen here again for a very long time.

[kermit]

^I think you mean _begin_ construction in 2014

[kermit]

This falls into the category of too much to hope for in Charlotte but I'll mention it anyway.

From today's Progressive Railroading:

construction of the Northwest light-rail extension in Phoenix has been accelerated by seven years, agency officials announced yesterday.

The project initially was scheduled to open this year. But in 2009, the recession caused in a drop in local sales tax revenue, prompting officials to postpone the project to 2023. The economy's improvement and expected economic boost by the project itself prompted officials to put the project back on track.

I REALLY want to see that signed FFGA

[15895]

^ why? Where do we come in?

[kermit]

^ if increased sales tax revenue and TIFF strageties can compress construction and financing schedules in Phoenix by more than five years then why can't we do that?

[Urbanity]

^ I'll gander two suggestions. We don't have the a huge increase in sales tax revenue in Charlotte and I don't see how much faster you could build out the BLE than the planned 2017 opening.

[kermit]

^Sure, but i don't think we gain anything by reflexively making those assumptions about construction time and sales tax revenues.

How much of a sales tax increase could Phoenix have seen? It is the foreclousere capital of the universe and they have not seen our same rate of pop growth post-2008.

How do we know the BLE schedule is uncompressible? Four years to build 9 miles of rail? Phoenix is building the same mileage in less than half that time. Hell, the three transcontental railroads were built in less than a year back in the day....

I should have provided more text with my quote. All I had wanted to say was "hey look, Phoenix has found a way to speed their LRT construction. Would't it be cool if CATS could borrow some of those same techniques."

[Urbanity]

I'm not certain what assumptions I'm making.

We know North Carolina's economy has been growing at an anemic rate as just yesterday there was a release of state outlook which was not very good. BTW - Just checked and Phoenix has one of the highest sales tax rates in the nation and I understand that there is a debate to raise it further or keeping a temporary raise in it permanent - this may explain the extra $$$ they are talking about.

We also know the schedule for CLT's construction is pretty concrete and thought out and has been moving forward unlike the Phoenix one which if I understand your quote was put on hold till 2023. Shaving 7 years off of that brings the project in at 2016 which is about the same time as ours.

I guess I'm just missing what the big deal is with Charlotte's current BLE plans and timing compared to Phoenix.

Edit - I just read the article - their line is only 3.2 miles about a third of the BLE!

The project, which involves extending the route along 19th Avenue from the current end-of-line north 3.2 miles to Dunlap Avenue, has been given the green light to accelerate completion from 2023 to 2015, Valley Metro officials said in a prepared statement.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Urbanity

[kermit]

^ thanks for including the link.

Perhaps my enthusiasm got the better of me. I had only wanted to offer some optimism about what might be possible here based on recent events in one of our LRT cohort cities.

[southslider]

The majority of real estate has yet to be acquired. That alone could take another year at least. Then, construction will take a minimum of two years. Hence, even if given the green light today, the earliest completion date you'd see would be in 2015 at a minimum. I don't think Charlotteans would raise their taxes to shave off two years at the most. Besides, 2017 is less than five years from now. It will be here before we know it!

[ah59396]

Maybe it's the optimism talking, but I am really not too worried about the BLE. I feel like it generally has bipartisan support and should go through w/out any issues. As long as we don't ever try to lump Streetcar development or anything green into it, I feel like the development of a functional mass transit system built on light rail should plug along fairly well. Even if we don't have another line built until 2025 (after the BLE extension), to think that in less than 25 years we have 3-4 lines (if you count the BLE as a 2nd line) of high capacity rail transit built in Charlotte is quite an impressive accomplishment. Assuming our city is approaching 850,000 residents by the late 2020's, the transit system in place will far exceed what most comparable (and some much larger) American cities have.

[DEnd]

Where is Charlotte at as compared to say DC or NYC in comparisson to population to number of stops/miles of rail/capacity?

[ah59396]

Ok, I'll play. I used Wikipedia and crude math, and a little bit of guesstimating. Numbers are based of rail transit (commuter lines not considered). The averages are based off city population, not metro.

NYC

8,244,000 city pop

18,297,000 metro pop

842 miles total length

468 stations

9,790 people/mile

17,615 people/station

DC

617,996 city pop

5,580,000 metro pop

106.3 miles

86 stations

5,814 people/mile

7,186 people/station

Charlotte

751,000 city

1,758,000 metro

9.6 miles

15 stations

78,229 people/mile

50,066 people/station

After BLE completion

Estimated 830,000 city population (2017)

19 miles

26 stations

43,684 people/mile

31,923 people/station

Feel free to edit or change at your leisure. Considering the metro populations between the 3, I honestly expected the numbers to be worse.

The DC #'s will probably be very favorable for them. DC proper is small and their metro stretches out pretty far beyond the limits. NYC not so much.

[ah59396]

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2012/09/26/charlotte-receives-18m-in-promised.html

More good news for the BLE.

[orulz]

I wonder why they are only lengthening "some" station platforms. Are others already long enough, or will they just keep their current lengths?

Is there any published breakdown of the daily ridership per station on the Blue Line? I've never ridden it but somehow I got the impression from reading online that the overwhelming majority of ridership is at 485, 3rd, CTC, and 7th.

[Sabaidee]

That $18 million grant isn't enough to lengthen all the platforms. From past press releases, the stations that will be lengthen will be used for special events when 3 cars-trains are being used, IDK if that's still the plan. I'm guessing CATS is trying to find other revenue sources to lengthen the rest of the platforms so eventually the entire Blue Line will be able to run 3 cars-trains from 485 to UNCC.

[nonillogical]

I wonder why they are only lengthening "some" station platforms. Are others already long enough, or will they just keep their current lengths?

Is there any published breakdown of the daily ridership per station on the Blue Line? I've never ridden it but somehow I got the impression from reading online that the overwhelming majority of ridership is at 485, 3rd, CTC, and 7th.

I'm not sure they have the means to calculate that since they could track where tickets are sold but not where riders get off. However anecdotally (from my own rides and passing by the stations) there is a lot of use of East/West as well and moderate use at Bland. It seems like Carson may be the most underused.

[kermit]

I was under the impression that lengthening the remaining South line platforms was already budgeted into the BLE.

I really could be wrong about that