Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[jednc]

^ Just walk. Even going from the 7th St. terminal all the way to the Convention Center isn't a long enough distance to justify a train ride, especially if my destination is in 3rd Ward. But I make very regular use of the Gold Rush when I have the opportunity, because for Tryon St. traffic it makes more sense than the train.

Maybe if I were going all the way to Stonewall Station I'd take the train. But that's only because things get uncomfortable once you hit the construction zones. Once they're finished the need for a train ride there will be lessened.

I would do the same. And, you've made a convincing arguement to leave to Orange Line in place. I'm on board. Bad pun intended.

[monsoon]

I think it will probably be 6 months to a year until we get a good idea of the real daily ridership. There are still a lot of people riding the trains just out of curiosity and it remains to be seen if these people will stay on the trains in the long term.

[staffer]

CATS is now reporting that during the first week of paid service they had an average daily ridership of just over 12,300....well over the FTA model projections of 9,100. In a memo from the City Manager there is also a blurb about the problems with the TVM's

Fuller quote from the manager's memo: "The first ten days of LYNX Blue Line operations have been highly successful demonstrating that people in Charlotte will in fact ride light rail. Ridership the initial free opening weekend was approximately 106,000. Based upon manual sample counts and ticket sales, daily ridership during the following week with fares being charged started at 6,700 and reached over 13,000 by week's end. Weekday mid-day riding was stronger then expected. This past weekend, staff estimates that Saturday ridership totaled nearly 25,000 person trips and on Sunday usage was between 11,000 and 12,000. Average daily ridership since the first day of charging fares is just over 12,300, well above the projected first year average daily figure of 9,100 person trips."

====================

Staggering -- 25k paid on Saturday! Weekday numbers ranged from 6,700 to 13,000. Sunday between 11 and 12k.

Edited December 6, 2007 by staffer

[Neo]

I think it will probably be 6 months to a year until we get a good idea of the real daily ridership. There are still a lot of people riding the trains just out of curiosity and it remains to be seen if these people will stay on the trains in the long term.

I agree that we really won't know the actual ridership until the newness wears off. I do think that it is a great sign that the ridership is exceeding expectations this early, had it gone below projections it may have not bode well for Charlotte and the spirits of those who voted to keep the transit tax in place.

You need to look at the fact that (as noted earlier by another poster) that there may be many that are simply using up any parking commitments they had pre-paid for previously before making the switch and the fact that many new developments are either going up at the moment or are planned to go up. I personally think we'll see things hold the way they currently are with the exception of weekend ridership (especially Saturday) since I believe a lot of that is still coming from folks simply wanting to ride it for the first time or take family/friends for a ride.

[monsoon]

^Very true about the parking. If you can take advantage of it, it certainly does save a lot of money to park in a free park and ride lot and ride downtown on the train over paying for the relatively expensive parking that exists in downtown. If I had a pre-paid contract downtown I would certainly let it run out before abandoning it. I am guessing that January will be the first real month that will be a good indication. (lots of people are on vacations in December)

[staffer]

I agree that we really won't know the actual ridership until the newness wears off. I do think that it is a great sign that the ridership is exceeding expectations this early, had it gone below projections it may have not bode well for Charlotte and the spirits of those who voted to keep the transit tax in place.

You need to look at the fact that (as noted earlier by another poster) that there may be many that are simply using up any parking commitments they had pre-paid for previously before making the switch and the fact that many new developments are either going up at the moment or are planned to go up. I personally think we'll see things hold the way they currently are with the exception of weekend ridership (especially Saturday) since I believe a lot of that is still coming from folks simply wanting to ride it for the first time or take family/friends for a ride.

If you delete Saturday and Sunday from the manager's numbers (that generated a 12k+ daily average), you still get a weekday average of 9,900 for the first week

[dxartist]

You definitely would save money parking and riding. Especially if your parking pass is $100+ a month (depending where you park). Looks like the LYNX site hasn't posted the monthly fare yet, but if I have to guess, the monthly pass will the be same as riding the bus ($52) if they decide to offer it.

[nyxmike]

So I decided to go out downtown last night for some drinks and I was going to take the train but the last outbound train that goes all the way to 485 is at 12:30 am (the train at 1 ends at Tyvola). I was pretty disappointed - you would think they would run the train atleast until 2:30 (since the bars close at 2).

Edited December 6, 2007 by nyxmike

[tozmervo]

You definitely would save money parking and riding. Especially if your parking pass is $100+ a month (depending where you park). Looks like the LYNX site hasn't posted the monthly fare yet, but if I have to guess, the monthly pass will the be same as riding the bus ($52) if they decide to offer it.

LYNX uses the same pass. That is, the CATS $52 monthly pass is good on both busses and the train - this is what I do.

[staffer]

The December 10, 2007 CLT City Council agenda has a proposed appropriation of $500,000 for Northeast corridor light rail engineering

[Spartan]

Does this mean if the performance doesn't improve that CATS can return the machines for a full refund?

...

As for ridership, I must admit I was skeptical, and am pleasantly surprised at the current volume of riders. I didn't believe Lynx would hit its intial estimates until 2009, when a large share of the announced TOD projects came on line. Of course, almost all new LRT lines across the US have exceeded projections, so perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised. If those other lines can be used as a guide, it should reach 18,000/day in 5 years or so.

Again, CATS should really look deep into its pockets to find the money to extend the stations to take 3-train sets, and to purchase 8 additional vehicles, and they shouldn't even consider building the NE line withouth stations capable of handling 3-train sets.

1) I think the warranty just guarantees that CATS wont have to pay for them to do the work to make the performance improvements.

2) Expanding stations doesn't make sense at this point. The trains are running with lots of people, but they are only running 1 train set at a time. Once the double trains are packed most of the time, then expanding the stations might make sense. I don't see how that could be done with the raised suburban stations.

[Southernyank]

It seems that the 3rd street elevator already has it's first bit of meaningless tagging.

[sfmartin]

^ how very urban of us. If you're gonna be an aspiring tag artist, please get some skills before you practice in public. While this is sinfully ugly, I remember seeing some beautiful graffiti along the transit corridors in Amsterdam.

[orulz]

I hope - HOPE - that everything in the entire transit system is coated with some anti-graffiti stuff, and that the CATS people are on the ball and clean it up within 24 hours. If they don't get the message out that "It's a waste of time to tag here, it won't last a day" then it will probably get out of hand, in a HURRY.

[BUILDIT]

^ how very urban of us. If you're gonna be an aspiring tag artist, please get some skills before you practice in public. While this is sinfully ugly, I remember seeing some beautiful graffiti along the transit corridors in Amsterdam.

I agree, take the 7 train in nyc into queens, and it is an amazing sight with all the graffiti on the warehouses with the nyc skyline in the background, that sucks

[monsoon]

To put that into perspective, I suggest a look at these photos of the NYC subway from the early 80s. Gritty travel for sure. I used to ride those trains in those days and today's Lynx looks absolutely pristine in comparison even with the markings.

[dubone]

Charlotte's rule is to clean up graffiti ASAP, but of course, every time some of it is removed, the finish will look less and less like before. I honestly hate gang graffiti and tagging. How dare they claim to own my neighborhood and so on.

It is not a good sign when kids think they can destroy a great new asset that serves the whole city.

[MZT]

I remember when the Los Angeles blue line opened, there was an outreach of some kind to get the gangs to understand the trains were not "turf". I guess we'd have to ask forumers in CA how long it has lasted, btu at least for the first few years it was opened, the taggers left it alone and there wasn't any fighting.

I have to admit I'm already seeing some "urban problems" near the stations. Having to step over homeless guys on the steps of the platforms late at night, and seeing urine in the corners near stairwells.

Edited December 7, 2007 by MZT

[Seabreeze]

I hope - HOPE - that everything in the entire transit system is coated with some anti-graffiti stuff, and that the CATS people are on the ball and clean it up within 24 hours. If they don't get the message out that "It's a waste of time to tag here, it won't last a day" then it will probably get out of hand, in a HURRY.

A few months ago I woke up and looked out of my window, only to find lude graffiti on the Archdale Station walls. I went to work extremely frustrated, as I was having people over after work and it was a bit embarrassing. I went home early at noon, and to my surprise the graffiti was already gone. I don't think this will be a major concern at all.

[Andyc545]

The 3rd St station graffiti was still up this afternoon when I went by. Also, at East/West Blvd Station both TMV's went down. Actually, I was helping an elderly man order 2 day passes, which it's apparent that a lot of people are not capable of using these machines, and it spit out one of his tickets and said there was a printing problem with the second, and from there the only machine left at E/W Station was down. I told him to write down his confirmation number in case he gets ticketed. Nonetheless, me and my friend didn't get a ticket going into uptown, and this was the one time, out of all 8-12 trips I've made that there was an inspector on the rail, but miraculously he didn't ticket us.

[grodney]

I rode again today instead of driving to work. I got on the 6:30am at 485, which was fairly empty as expected, but there were some others, and several boarded at stops along the way. The big WOW was at 2:50pm at the Stonewall station. Every seat taken, and 20 people standing. I did not expect that at all.

Oh, and question: There was a ticket-checker guy on my train, and I overheard him talking with a bunch of people. After hearing something about laptops, I swear he said something like "We're supposed to be getting wireless soon". Anyone know anything about such a possibility? Maybe that's commonly known and I'm just not aware. Sorry if so.

Edited December 7, 2007 by grodney

[kermit]

I rode again today instead of driving to work. I got on the 6:30am at 485, which was fairly empty as expected, but there were some others, and several boarded at stops along the way. The big WOW was at 2:50pm at the Stonewall station. Every seat taken, and 20 people standing. I did not expect that at all.

I can't resist the urge to micro-analyze ridership (sorry). I was at the xmas tree lot across from phat burrito at 5pm today. Watched 3 trains go by in each direction (6 total, two were two unit sets). Much to my surprise each looked to have 3/4 of seats full and no strap-hangers. These were the first trains I have seen that did not have a significant number of standing passengers, I didn't expect that on a Friday rush hour.

[staffer]

I can't resist the urge to micro-analyze ridership (sorry). I was at the xmas tree lot across from phat burrito at 5pm today. Watched 3 trains go by in each direction (6 total, two were two unit sets). Much to my surprise each looked to have 3/4 of seats full and no strap-hangers. These were the first trains I have seen that did not have a significant number of standing passengers, I didn't expect that on a Friday rush hour.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the people Kermit reported missing from the 5 pm rushhour trains were the same people Grodney noted packing the trains at 2:50 pm. It's Friday, after all.

Edited December 8, 2007 by staffer

[tozmervo]

I can't resist the urge to micro-analyze ridership (sorry). I was at the xmas tree lot across from phat burrito at 5pm today. Watched 3 trains go by in each direction (6 total, two were two unit sets). Much to my surprise each looked to have 3/4 of seats full and no strap-hangers. These were the first trains I have seen that did not have a significant number of standing passengers, I didn't expect that on a Friday rush hour.

Thursday, at 5:30, an outbound train, Carson Station.

There was no more room. Period.

[davidclt]

I can't resist the urge to micro-analyze ridership (sorry). I was at the xmas tree lot across from phat burrito at 5pm today. Watched 3 trains go by in each direction (6 total, two were two unit sets). Much to my surprise each looked to have 3/4 of seats full and no strap-hangers. These were the first trains I have seen that did not have a significant number of standing passengers, I didn't expect that on a Friday rush hour.

We were at the Christmas tree lot (which incidentally will host a Farmers Market in the spring/summer) last night after dinner at 8:30 and the three trains that went past, two southbound, one northbound were all standing room only.

The tree farmers from Ashe county were very impressed with the train and the number of people riding the train. I think I'm going to buy my tree from them and take it home on the train . . .