Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[dubone]

[MilZ]

So I could ride the blue line from the golf course in Ballantyne to a trailer park in UC! 

[RVA2CLT]

Keep in mind Ballantyne's office park area is so spread out that it's footprint, mostly acres of open parking lots, is almost the same size as Uptown's inner ring (277 noose/NS line).

Realistically. if you got LRT down there, there would still need to be some sort of 'Ballantyne Circulator Shuttle' that navigates from the LRT Station only around the corporate park for it to be an effective transit solution for working commuters, or an even longer shot, add a Ballantyne Streetcar Circulator that connects with the LRT station.

Either one would need to, at the very least, navigate around the Ballantyne Commons / Ballantyne Corp Place loop, which then still neglects the offices on North Community House Rd (Met Life) and does nothing for the offices North of 485.

Just a LRT stop in Ballantyne would not cut it as the area is too spread-out and a good amount of commuting workers will still end up walking nearly a mile to get to/from their office.

It needs a circulatory counterpart or it's going to be severely under-utilized, especially since Ballantynians usually only go to Uptown on weekends and they drive or take a cab back home, this will not change anytime in the near future.

Again, CATS should just work on the enhancing the current bus service out there.

 

[dubone]

Even Uptown needs a circulator.  Also, the only way to help transition those lots into decks and more dense development is to have transit infrastructure. 

[Urbanity]

^I personally don't think Uptown needs a circulator.   It already has an (almost) North to South Light Rail with 3 (and counting) stops plus the soon to open (and then expand) streetcar East to West Streetcar.  Frankly Inside the 277 loop is not that big.  

 

Edit:  That said if the city decides to keep the Gold Rush going maybe along the 2020 Center City envisioned urban loop park at Center City Partners cost  I have no issue.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Urbanity

[dubone]

The Gold Rush  line is the circulator and it is the most ridden transit in the city.   The uptown section of the streetcar is classified as such and allows for quick transfers to Presby/Novant, CPCC, Government District, Elizabeth, Gateway, West End (et al), and out further in the wards.    The B-cycle has taken on some circulation tasks, and the regular buses have too.   I live in 4th Ward and often take the 21 bus or B Cycle to catch a Lynx train. 

 

In the context of this Ballantyne conversation, if an area is not yet dense enough to be used efficiently with a single transit station, then a shuttle circulator meets that need.  That goes for suburban office parks and their hotels that needs.  But it also goes for UNCC when it connects to the Lynx.  Hopefully URP will also get a bus line that allows for easy connection to that area.  Ballantyne is not yet dense enough, but easily has the beginnings of it, and the higher land value will eventually cause density and conversion of the parking into additional development.   It is a part of the city, and already succeeding, we should not be ignoring the area for transit or we will regret it in 15 years.  

[orulz]

Dubone, I like your suggested light rail extension to Ballantyne. I wonder if the line couldn't go between downtown Pineville and Carolina Place Mall instead of between the interstate and the mall. Much better prospect for TOD.

[tozmervo]

CATS has posted a couple of images of the JW Clay and UC Blvd Parking Decks:

 

https://www.facebook.com/CatsBlueLineExtensionUpdates/posts/263825750435782?stream_ref=10

[AuLukey]

I'm still ecstatic that they are holding true (so far) to the street-facing retail.  I'd call it street-front, but there is clearly a buffer between the road and the sidewalk.  I'll just look at it like its an extended planter.

[dubone]

I figure there is also a chance in the long run that Carolina Place itself has some chance of converting to mixed use new urbanist development with parking decks.    With all the wetlands, it is tough to include both the old town center of Pineville and chart a route that stays in NC and Charlotte toward what is becoming the central business district of south Charlotte, Ballantyne.   

 

Downtown Pineville is not nearly as relevant in a regional sense as the large mall and large office park location that includes some Fortune 500 headquarters and high employment density.  I am not even sure that policies are anywhere close to having infrastructure to densify that old downtown rather than keeping it as is as a quaint little street.  

 

Every time I look at it, I think the most practical route is to stay along the edge of the 485 right of way, as non-ideal as that is generally, the wetlands really do make much of the rest of this area very difficult to traverse.  

[Urbanity]

I'm still ecstatic that they are holding true (so far) to the street-facing retail.  I'd call it street-front, but there is clearly a buffer between the road and the sidewalk.  I'll just look at it like its an extended planter.

Agreed - though my expectations are very low until it is built.

[Niner National]

According to the Observer, construction will start on the actual line in March.

[Urbanity]

A little more details in CBJ article about time line 

 

Muth said construction will be segmented, with 30 percent to 40 percent of the 9.3-mile route from uptown to Old Concord Road to begin in March. The last two segments, from Old Concord to University City and University City to the UNCC campus, will follow soon after. Some of the public utility work on the first segment started last summer in uptown.

[kermit]

The March start date suggests that they are now roughly one month behind schedule per the construction schedule summary on the BLE page:

 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/BLE/projectfacts/Documents/2012%200723%20-%20BL45%20Construction%20Summary.pdf

 

Not sure if I should be happy or sad about this somewhat trivial deviation from the original schedule....

[Guest]

I really really wish they would finish in phases. I've been wishing that forever. Getting Rail to NoDa through optimist park and belmont is extremely important, IMHO. That area will see a revitalization unlike anything the city has seen.

[CLTProductions]

I really really wish they would finish in phases. I've been wishing that forever. Getting Rail to NoDa through optimist park and belmont is extremely important, IMHO. That area will see a revitalization unlike anything the city has seen.

Couldn't agree more. I have no idea why they don't do that, get it out to NoDa, open that up and continue on. Why not start generating that revenue? I think it will do a LOT for the culture out there and increase traffic. One of the biggest complaints people (myself including) have about NoDa is parking. If i could hop on the rail from uptown I could see myself going out there more, such good food.

[tozmervo]

It's a money issue. Phasing has certain logistical and mobilization costs that would drive up the final tally of the project cost, even if it would "spread out" the spending over a longer time. And at the end of the day, we might gain - at most - a few months of revenue service on a stretch of the BLE that is not going to produce the majority of the ridership. 

[Guest]

Couldn't agree more. I have no idea why they don't do that, get it out to NoDa, open that up and continue on. Why not start generating that revenue? I think it will do a LOT for the culture out there and increase traffic. One of the biggest complaints people (myself including) have about NoDa is parking. If i could hop on the rail from uptown I could see myself going out there more, such good food.

Most transit projects are done in this manner... Not sure why we don't do the same. NoDa would EXPLODE!

[dubone]

I think there are cost savings associated with specialization.  So companies come in an add all the electric substations in a phase, rather than building all components to get it up and running to a certain zone.   Same goes with the orders of the additional vehicles in batches.  

 

I suppose there probably could be ways to do it, but I think ultimately the way it's being planned is likely the lowest cost, even though there are probably middle-ground trade offs to the phasing approach. 

[15895]

Maybe streetcar the first phase?

Unfortunately though they might be tinkering around Trade by then

[tozmervo]

CBJ has mentioned something I've been wondering about. Despite adding hundreds-to-thousands of residents within easy walking distance of stations, the light rail hasn't seen much growth in ridership and has "flatlined" around 15000 a day. Any thoughts to why?

 

My best speculation is that most of the added residents aren't working in Uptown and thus aren't commuting on the rail. I also reckon a lot of the residents moving in north of Bland St are probably just walking into Uptown. 

[Urbanity]

 

My best speculation is that most of the added residents aren't working in Uptown and thus aren't commuting on the rail. I also reckon a lot of the residents moving in north of Bland St are probably just walking into Uptown. 

I'd also add that one line for several miles doesn't equate an unlimited rationale for use meaning until the city has a mass transit culture with a "system" of connections you are going to get one huge leap for the BLE, some years of growth and then flatlining again unless another connecting line opens.

[kermit]

CBJ has mentioned something I've been wondering about. Despite adding hundreds-to-thousands of residents within easy walking distance of stations, the light rail hasn't seen much growth in ridership and has "flatlined" around 15000 a day. Any thoughts to why?

 

My best speculation is that most of the added residents aren't working in Uptown and thus aren't commuting on the rail. I also reckon a lot of the residents moving in north of Bland St are probably just walking into Uptown. 

 

Despite the growth of residential space I would think that the stagnant uptown employment market is what is really holding ridership back. Until we get some job growth (where is that new office space?) and improve the culture of transit (hat tip to ubanity) we are looking at ridership stuck at 15,000.

 

I do think that 70 Knights games and the streetcar Lynx Gold Line will generate measurable bumps in ridership.

Edited January 16, 2014 by kermit

[15895]

The blue line, i think, is pretty much a 1 way destination with the primary Point of getting people in and out of uptown.

The extension - In my opinion - will be more traveling in both directions.

UNCC <--> University City <------------NoDa----> Uptown

What, really, would many people need starting in uptown on the blue line and taking it south? Obviously there is SouthEnd... But what about blue line from East/West South Bound train? What demand is there for that?

With the extension, I think there will be demand for commuting/traveling north & south bound from any station on the extension.

I would imagine an employment or entertainment destination south of SouthEnd would be the best way to grow blue line numbers (even more)

Edited January 16, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[HopHead]

I really think you're going to see that ridership escalate once the BLE is done in a few years. If I'm a resident in say Fountains or Ashton and I want to go out in NoDa on a given night (or day), I'm taking the light rail up that way (and vice versa). No need to get in your car. And to kermit's point, we haven't seen the job and office space growth in uptown yet that would warrant a noticeable tick up in ridership. So, Crescent... where's your transformative project?