Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[tozmervo]

It's under-the-radar, but CATS has a nice presentation on the expansion of 485 and Stonewall stations. It looks like construction is slated to start in March and be complete by August 2015 (in time for football, presumably). 

 

It's not explicit from the presentation, but I would assume the power upgrades along the corridor will fully enable the use of 3-car trains, so future station expansion will be less expensive since they won't contain that power component. 

 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/Documents/2013%200716%20-%20BLCE%20Pub%20Mtg-Final%20PDF.pdf

[ajfunder]

^CATS is also scheduled to recieve four new LRV's in November from Siemens (part of the order of 22 for the BLE). These cars will allow more two car trains and I assume three car trains when needed on the current line.

[Niner National]

Just an anecdotal chuckle/cry.  

 

I am amazed at how many people I work with on Campus still have no idea where the BLE will run in its final few stops. Some think it will end at the 485, some have no idea that it is going to run down Tryon in the University City area (I had two people tell me it was impossible) and some think it will not actually stop on campus!     My favorite - Just yesterday someone actually said they thought the city cancelled the whole thing a few years ago!

 

Le sigh!

My coworkers are constantly blown away when I tell them about things that are going on around the city. They live in Uptown, SouthEnd, South Park, and Montford area, so none are suburban dwellers, yet they're all completely clueless about projects going on or planned all around them.

[Guest]

My coworkers are constantly blown away when I tell them about things that are going on around the city. They live in Uptown, SouthEnd, South Park, and Montford area, so none are suburban dwellers, yet they're all completely clueless about projects going on or planned all around them.

I think Friends of mine that live in SouthEnd and Uptown are actually a little weirded out that I (who lives in Brooklyn) know more about Projects in Charlotte than them... LOL

Edited February 5, 2014 by Guest

[ChessieCat]

My bad   

Edited February 6, 2014 by ChessieCat

[RVA2CLT]

^yup, Tozmervo shared it in the 'Perception of Charlotte' thread on Jan 29th.

Out of curiosity, why is this posted in the thread for 'Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line'?

seems

[dubone]

How did I think there were more than 2 stations getting the 3-car train treatment in the south.  Tragic that we could have done it from the get go for far cheaper, but I still thought more of stations could handle it anyway. 

[kermit]

How did I think there were more than 2 stations getting the 3-car train treatment in the south.  Tragic that we could have done it from the get go for far cheaper, but I still thought more of stations could handle it anyway. 

 

You are correct, the original grant proposal included four stations (485 and Stonewall, 3rd and Arena). Not sure how they got away with dropping two.

Edited February 7, 2014 by kermit

[tozmervo]

I have to assume that their construction costs were higher than expected. Hopefully future platform extensions will be less expensive since the power upgrades will already be complete. (Bridge stations notwithstanding)

[dubone]

Facepalm!

 

I'm really tired of dramatic reductions in scope and benefit.   Either they need to get better at estimating costs, or they need to get it together to actually do the project more quickly so we don't end up with 4y of inflation.

We have the entire northeast corridor with 3 car trains but if you mistakenly don't get off and switch at Stonewall, you're stuck on the train for 30 minutes, transfer, then back up to your destination.

 

At least having one in the middle cuts that down to 15 minutes.

[tozmervo]

My suspicion is that we'll only see 3-car combos rolled out for special event service until the entire line is upgraded.

[dubone]

Which, if $37m only buys 2 station upgrades, then that would mean upgrading a few stations will cost more than the streetcar.  How is this possible?

[southslider]

BLE will have 3-car platforms but run 2-car trains until all of Blue Line is upgraded.

[kermit]

Which, if $37m only buys 2 station upgrades, then that would mean upgrading a few stations will cost more than the streetcar.  How is this possible?

 

That is actually cheap. The 2010 TIGER grant proposal to extend the blue line to the 9th street station (not funded) was for $25 million.

 

$25 million to build one station where:

• A streetcar station already exists
• One track (built in 2007) already runs to it
• Centenary already runs to it
• Crossing gates are already in place
• ROW is already acquired
• Its JUST two blocks

 

You are right, the streetcar looks like a bargain.

[southslider]

If the latest $12M in engineering finds that Phase 2 isn't so cheap, the project will shrink. Sunnyside is at the greatest risk of being cut. Gateway is the most certain. Johnson C Smith is the happy medium. The City can only afford about $100M project, where the balance of reserves left after design match a Small Starts grant.

[15895]

I wonder how popular the gateway station gold line stop will be. I imagine nowhere near without the actual gateway station.

[km1789]

If the latest $12M in engineering finds that Phase 2 isn't so cheap, the project will shrink. Sunnyside is at the greatest risk of being cut. Gateway is the most certain. Johnson C Smith is the happy medium. The City can only afford about $100M project, where the balance of reserves left after design match a Small Starts grant.

 

God i hope not, that would be my station....

[dubone]

Me too, I'd far rather the streetcar go Gateway to Sunnyside than west, because there are much more commercial and higher density residential already closer to Sunnyside, and extending west of 77 in a phase III would still retain political support.

 

Regardless, I do realize that 3-car trains are not an immediate necessity, and the 9th Street station standalone was absurd from thet get go, but I wonder how long it will be until funding for extending platforms on the whole Blue Line if if is $18m PER STATION.  That is just unconscionable for what 50' of concrete at the at-grade?  Skip the canopies, skip the trash cans, put in the concrete stoops at as many stations as possible first, and then go back in an add canopies and ticket machines as the bonus rather than having the expectation that for some period of time in the medium term we will have to run 3-car trains in the northeast and then have these souls trapped with no doors opening for 30 minutes.    I mean, at grade stations... it is just a sidewalk of a certain height, 18 MILLION?

[southslider]

Per the CATS website, this initial capacity project is more than just a few extended platforms, but also multiple substations. The web slides show the locations. Seems like a safe bet that this fixed cost is adding to this initial project's total cost, however, extending all remaining platforms shouldn't include that added cost again.

[dcharlotte]

Per the CATS website, this initial capacity project is more than just a few extended platforms, but also multiple substations. The web slides show the locations. Seems like a safe bet that this fixed cost is adding to this initial project's total cost, however, extending all remaining platforms shouldn't include that added cost again.

 

You're correct - the power substations and power upgrades are quite costly.  The amount of power it takes to power a three-car train from zero to 55 mph is quite high.  Minimizing the headway times also increases the total number of trains on any given section, requiring an additional power substation within that area to feed the power for that section.  That's why we have two-car trains and longer headway times: the power system on the line simply cannot accommodate more trains.

[ChessieCat]

Buried in the Meck Times: a 31acre tract of land sold for $5MM at the NE corner of N.Tryon and Sandy Ave near the BLE.  Anyone care to opine what could be in the works?

[Niner National]

Buried in the Meck Times: a 31acre tract of land sold for $5MM at the NE corner of N.Tryon and Sandy Ave near the BLE.  Anyone care to opine what could be in the works?

Hmm, that's in the University Area...so I'm going with car dealership.

 

If we're lucky, we might get a crappy garden style apartment development with 4 parking spots per resident

[kermit]

Buried in the Meck Times: a 31acre tract of land sold for $5MM at the NE corner of N.Tryon and Sandy Ave near the BLE.  Anyone care to opine what could be in the works?

 

If it is the parcel I am thinking of it was sold to investors who do not have immediate plans for the parcel (sounds like they are just planning to hold it)

[dubone]

A second transit-oriented automall, possibly?   It's University City, so it's either that or a big box shopping center.

[ChessieCat]

It is at the corner of the I-85 connector, so very valuable real estate... Maybe too valuable for Residential or even Mixed-use if the cost is $5MM for 31 acres?