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Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line


dubone

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Not sure if this was mentioned, but some of the Charlotte allocation of TIGER grant projects came in under contract, and there is now enough money to also extend Woodlawn Station to accomodate 3-car sets........I believe all Uptown stations, 485 and now Woodlawn can accomodate 3 cars.  The Woodlawn extension is starting this year I believe.

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Not sure if this was mentioned, but some of the Charlotte allocation of TIGER grant projects came in under contract, and there is now enough money to also extend Woodlawn Station to accomodate 3-car sets........I believe all Uptown stations, 485 and now Woodlawn can accomodate 3 cars.  The Woodlawn extension is starting this year I believe.

 

When can we expect this in the Observer since they like to report on transit projects and their budgets so much  :whistling:

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Not sure if this was mentioned, but some of the Charlotte allocation of TIGER grant projects came in under contract, and there is now enough money to also extend Woodlawn Station to accomodate 3-car sets........I believe all Uptown stations, 485 and now Woodlawn can accomodate 3 cars.  The Woodlawn extension is starting this year I believe.

 

I noticed the inclusion of Woodlawn.  This particular project has been very interesting as the scope has seemed to change a lot.  I'm still unclear whether they have dropped the expansion of other uptown stations listed early as included (like 7th).  

 

Is it just Woodlawn, Stonewall and 485 now?

 

 

 

 

Of course the message of scope increases because of conservative budgeting will only resonate with people like us that are supportive of transit investments.    Naysayers will find a way to turn this into negative news.

 

But consider how often scope gets cut, these are welcome surprises. 

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http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/Documents/FTA%20Quarterly-150123.pdf

 

Pg 112-121

 

 

It does seem that the 7th St Station is included (as are Stonewall and 485).  So 4 stations now.   

 

It will be complete in August.   

 

Fox did not increase the budget, only that more was able to be accomplished with the same budget.   Some of the at-grade stations seemed like no-brainers for this, as it is just an extension of the concrete platform.  The other aspects like seating and shelters are important but not anywhere near as important as getting on and off the train. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

RDF, I saw you mention on SSC that the stop between New Bern and East/West is a go.  Have you got new info on that besides the tweet we saw a while back?  Or same as before?

I think I said they were working on it. The City is in advanced talks with the neighborhood association, last I heard. I think the new stop will definitely happen though, its just getting the funding through, which could take forever.

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I had always thought that station would be public-private-partnership. But the good news is that once it gets entered into official transit plans and they engineer how that would work, it really does put an air of inevitibility.  It seems a very good candidate to be included in a bundle of work for 'capacity expansion' along with expanding additional stations to 3-car capacity.  

 

This station has a very good story to tell with all the retail and residential density.   Residents will also gain from being able to cross to the Publix/Lowes and there is still a lot of potential for interesting reuse of the light industrial warehouses in the area like Triple C has done closer to New Bern.

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I had always thought that station would be public-private-partnership. But the good news is that once it gets entered into official transit plans and they engineer how that would work, it really does put an air of inevitibility.  It seems a very good candidate to be included in a bundle of work for 'capacity expansion' along with expanding additional stations to 3-car capacity.  

 

This station has a very good story to tell with all the retail and residential density.   Residents will also gain from being able to cross to the Publix/Lowes and there is still a lot of potential for interesting reuse of the light industrial warehouses in the area like Triple C has done closer to New Bern.

Theres a new market over there called "Friendship Market" which I hope somehow manages to stay open. I guess the residential on that side of the tracks will help support it. 

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It is a catch 22, though.  Cherokee was pushing this idea, but then they abandoned the area and sold off their holdings.  The area was still relatively dormant, there would not be much imagination to do it.   Then the developers coming in were doing so without it, and may not have ever known it was a possibility even until things came back up.

 

 

While PPP are nice bonuses, it is still a very solid expansion move to expand access for transit users without jeopardizing much in the speed of the system overall.  I think it is totally reasonable that the public at-large pays, especially in a bundle for expansion of the rest of the South Line. 

 

I actually think further Blue Line Capacity Expansion should take precedence over new lines on the budget.  Existing lines are often overlooked for new ones, but those types of changes are what make the lines truly have an impact on the city.  

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I actually think further Blue Line Capacity Expansion should take precedence over new lines on the budget.  Existing lines are often overlooked for new ones, but those types of changes are what make the lines truly have an impact on the city.  

 

Agreed. Even on a Sunday afternoon, 75% of the seats on a 2-car train are full, I can't imagine what it's like during rush hour.

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Agreed. Even on a Sunday afternoon, 75% of the seats on a 2-car train are full, I can't imagine what it's like during rush hour.

 

I would push for additional trains during the weekends, not specifically capacity improvements. Frequent transit is more likely to bring even more riders which will make the capacity expansion a slam-dunk for approval of federal funds. 

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I would push for additional trains during the weekends, not specifically capacity improvements. Frequent transit is more likely to bring even more riders which will make the capacity expansion a slam-dunk for approval of federal funds.

I agree with this. I'm not saying that capacity expansion should be put on the back burner, but increasing frequency is a relatively cheap, short time fix while not prolonging growth elsewhere. Expansion is necessary, but doesn't increase the amount of attractive TOD property in the city short-term.

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I would push for additional trains during the weekends, not specifically capacity improvements. Frequent transit is more likely to bring even more riders which will make the capacity expansion a slam-dunk for approval of federal funds. 

 

Higher frequency was touted as the solution to going from 3 to 2-car stations during the initial build.    I still like the idea of meeting the demand with higher frequency, as you also have a better user experience overall, with not waiting for the train as long.   But the infrastructure for 3-car trains will be necessary as we grow to a point where we have both longer trains and high frequencies.   

 

 

Back in the days when transit was valued enough to have equal funding formulas as interstates (80% federal funding), (and certainly internationally) a city our size would have been looking into a metro heavy rail system.   Light rails are a good compromise because they provide a solid transit infrastructure at a much lower cost, but capacity must then be solved by high frequency service. In SF, the BART heavy rail comes less frequently but has huge long trains, whereas the MUNI light rail comes quite often.  

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I was just thinking the other day that if Charlotte had the same population in the 1970s that it does today, we would certainty have a heavy rail system, or at least a large scale light rail system put in place today. It is sad that public transportation is often given a blind eye both within the government in terms of funding and society. I have many friends that view public transit as unnecessary, unclean, and only for those who lack the means to obtain a car. The days of building large scale metro systems in the US have passed unfortunately.

 

I have been living in Hong Kong for the past 3 months, and it is SO NICE to not have to drive anywhere.

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I was just thinking the other day that if Charlotte had the same population in the 1970s that it does today, we would certainty have a heavy rail system, or at least a large scale light rail system put in place today. It is sad that public transportation is often given a blind eye both within the government in terms of funding and society. I have many friends that view public transit as unnecessary, unclean, and only for those who lack the means to obtain a car. The days of building large scale metro systems in the US have passed unfortunately.

 

I have been living in Hong Kong for the past 3 months, and it is SO NICE to not have to drive anywhere.

 

The 70's were the worst of times for Heavy Rail: all the freight lines handed over their unprofitable lines to the Feds to create AMTRAK in 1971, and CONRAIL was created to handle the freight ops of bankrupt lines like Penn Central and Erie Lackawanna.   Even densely populated places like San Francisco nationalized Southern Pacific's regional commuter service to create Caltrain.  LA County was decades away from creating Metro Rail.

 

Sure, BART and MARTA were launched in the Bay Area and Atlanta in the 1970's, but their big populations necessitated it.  Charlotte didn't then and does not now have the population or density to create a regional rapid transit system like those metro areas.  

 

Charlotte is lucky that Norfolk Southern abandoned the R-Line between Tyvola and Charlotte Yard, otherwise we may not have had a Blue Line to start with.

 

Hong Kong has such an awesome transit system cause of constrained geography, pop density, and the fact that MTR only builds stations where it can own and develop the land above it through Value Capture financing. 

Edited by ChessieCat
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Sure, BART and MARTA were launched in the Bay Area and Atlanta in the 1970's, but their big populations necessitated it.  Charlotte didn't then and does not now have the population or density to create a regional rapid transit system like those metro areas.  

 

 

FWIW: MARTA rail opened in 1979 and Fulton and Dekalb counties had a total population of 1,070,432. Mecklenburg had 990,977 in 2013 (most recent data from the same source). I would bet that Meck today is a bit denser than Atlanta of the late 70s -- but I am too lazy to look that up.

 

Mecklenburg today certainly has more concentrated employment than Atlanta did in 1979. I wonder what we would build if the federal government gave us $3.5 BILLION for a heavy rail system? (Atlanta received around $800 million in the 1970s -- adjusting for inflation that is roughly $3.5 billion in 2015 dollars). I suspect we would not be talking about mixed traffic streetcars.

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FWIW: MARTA rail opened in 1979 and Fulton and Dekalb counties had a total population of 1,070,432. Mecklenburg had 990,977 in 2013 (most recent data from the same source). I would bet that Meck today is a bit denser than Atlanta of the late 70s -- but I am too lazy to look that up.

 

Mecklenburg today certainly has more concentrated employment than Atlanta did in 1979. I wonder what we would build if the federal government gave us $3.5 BILLION for a heavy rail system? (Atlanta received around $800 million in the 1970s -- adjusting for inflation that is roughly $3.5 billion in 2015 dollars). I suspect we would not be talking about mixed traffic streetcars. 

 

What I have noticed about Charlotte is that we will get the density to support the transit, if we build the transit first. You can tell because of the apartment boom in south end. I feel like the BLE will definitely bring tons of TOD with it, and anywhere else we build light rail, it will come. What we have talked about before with the rail line down Tyvola, is that this could create another SouthEnd. 

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The conditions must be good for it otherwise.   It is a complicated case and not just a pure built-it-they-will-come scenario.   The southern half of the original Blue Line has not gotten much TOD investment.    Because if you are wanting a more urban environment, you are likely a person wanting to live near the rest of the urban activity.   That is why TOD is coming to Plaza Midwood with no near term prospects of rail transit, but not to Archdale or Arrowood.      The key is to get the balance right to invest in lines to areas where that transition could take place, and to orient development where it is already taking place.   

 

SouthEnd was springing up before the Blue line was even a thing.   It was just the trolley line at the time.   

 

 

I do believe the trend towards light rail over heavy rail is maybe more reasonable for medium sized cities.  But it is a shame that we can't even get that investment when cities a generation ago were being invested in at a much more significant rate.  I do hope that the feds switch back to investing much more in infrastructure . 

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^ I had the same feeling when I saw the announcement about Eastway.

 

On a brighter note, I noticed today that you can now see the outlines of the Parkwood station platform taking shape. Its certainly not actual station construction, but the concrete pad it will go is now partially complete.

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