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Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line


dubone

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Something does not add up here. If they are in fact carrying 12,000 people day, they are only collecting money = 1/4th of that. I don't believe that the other 8000/day can be explained away by non-payers, reduce fares and/or bus xfers.

Monthlies also don't get counted, which means that my many, many trips on the train have not required a single use of the ticket machines.

Bless the monthly pass.

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Bless the monthly pass.
Except I was under the impression they are not selling monthly passes. (which has been another criticism)

From the Lynx Website "LYNX tickets can be purchased at self-serving ticket vending machines (TVMs) located on the rail station platforms. TVMs sell 7-day passes, one day passes,one-way rides and special event tickets."

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Except I was under the impression they are not selling monthly passes. (which has been another criticism)

From the Lynx Website "LYNX tickets can be purchased at self-serving ticket vending machines (TVMs) located on the rail station platforms. TVMs sell 7-day passes, one day passes,one-way rides and special event tickets."

The TVM doesn't, but it can be used when purchased from the CTC or other retail outlets.

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^There is no indication this is the case on the Lynx Fare website. here

However lets assume that CATS is allowing some kind of monthly pass for Lynx that can be purchased in the bus station. I assume that CATS would have considered this when they projected they would collect $6100/day in fares. Since they are collecting $1000 less/day than this projection then:

  • they they are having very serious problems with non-payers. There is either a huge enforcement problem or the ticket machine issues are much more serious than they have let on. (or a combo of both)
  • or they are in fact not meeting their ridership claims.

I guess we will have to wait until the end of January at the earliest to see how ridership is really going on these trains.

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Except I was under the impression they are not selling monthly passes. (which has been another criticism)

From the Lynx Website "LYNX tickets can be purchased at self-serving ticket vending machines (TVMs) located on the rail station platforms. TVMs sell 7-day passes, one day passes,one-way rides and special event tickets."

$52 gets you unlimited access to the train and busses. It baffles me that CATS doesn't make this option more readily available.

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A lot of the LRT riders are transfers from buses. Your bus pass counts allows you a transfer to the train without having to pay for another ticket. They are riders but will not contribute to the fares collected by the machines. Add them to the number of people who do not pay whether illegally or because the ticket machines are broken and I think the numbers even out pretty decently.

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On the Lynx Fares page in the Proof of Payment section it plainly states that the Monthly and Weekly Passes are considered valid fare. I bought a monthly pass last week and had it checked by the fare inspector when I rode the Lynx yesterday. I use this same pass to ride the CATS busses.

The monthly/weekly passes are available for purchase at most Food Lion, Bloom, and Harris Teeters in Mecklenburg County as well as a bunch of other places. The full list of sales outlets is here:

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/R...t+Locations.htm

But back to the topic at hand...I think that CATS will be holding off on the "full force" ticket checking until these damn ticket machines work properly. Having riden the Lynx many times now I don't question the ridership numbers...they seem about right to me.

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Also, weren't they using an independent firm to do the counts so there wouldn't be anything said about CATS inflating their own numbers?

That is a correct statement that since there are not anywhere near 12,000 tickets being sold a day that it seems there shouldn't be a problem with the ticket machines.

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Also, weren't they using an independent firm to do the counts so there wouldn't be anything said about CATS inflating their own numbers?

About half of the Lynx Cars and all of the CATS buses are equiped with automatic passenger counters that use infrared technology. If I remember correctly they plan to have all of the Lynx cars equiped with the automatic counters in the next month or so. They are using the surveyors for the cars that don't have the automatic counters. The surverors are also used to check the numbers against what the automatic counters are coming up with for the cars that have them installed.

I don't think a 3rd Party is doing the ridership numbers...but I'm not sure.

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Many transit agencies also sell monthly passes through major employers, but sales tend to occur only once per month, in a bulk payment from a HR dept to the transit agency. I have no idea if CATS is doing this. Many of the larger transit agencies get over 50% of their fares paid in passes.

However, there's a difference between expecting $6100/day from the farebox in total (including background payments like those above) and expecting $6100/day in coins and bills from TVMs. The problems with the TVMs are well-documented, and it seems reasonable that until the TVMs are working as intended, fare revenue counts will not be as accurate or what they should be. That doesn't mean ridership, which is not counted based on fare payment, is off.

I'd still like to see a link to the website suggesting there is a problem. Until I see some reference to it in a legit news source like the Charlotte Observer, I will assume this is a math problem somewhere.

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I'd still like to see a link to the website suggesting there is a problem. Until I see some reference to it in a legit news source like the Charlotte Observer, I will assume this is a math problem somewhere.

Perhaps is was this site:CLT O story in ridership and TVM's

I found this news disheartening. CATS is already being scrutinzed as a result of the cost overruns and mismanagement. I'm sure the anti transit crowd is licking their chops at this news. CATS needs to remedy this problem ASAP.

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I used to get 2 or 3 "ten ride" passes a month for the bus. Sometimes two was all I needed, because I still drive once in a while.

Since those machines are so unreliable, I switched to the monthly pass, which is a little more expensive than using the ten ride passes. I don't mind it too much. It's worth it to avoid lines at the machines which can cause you to miss boarding a train.

The train doesn't really have an equivalent of the "ten rides" though. Closes thing would be to buy the "ten rides" anyway and run them through a fare machine at a bus just to get transfer tickets. You'd have to REALLY be a miser to go to this much trouble. :rolleyes:

Edited by MZT
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It'll be a while before they get all these kinks worked out. I do find it incredulous that they can't get properly working ticket machines though that is really the fault of the chosen vendor. It isn't like ticket machines are new technology overall. I am glad, in the meantime, that they are holding off on hardcore enforcement, but I wonder if that will set the stage for people to get used to riding without paying though. These ticketing problems need to be worked out ASAP -- it will be pathetic for an agency that already catches so much heat to leave this problem out there for much longer. I can't see any reason to not make this a #1 priority.

At any rate, ridership numbers are only estimates at any point so it will be hard to tell the exact number of people that use the train at any point. What is heartening regardless is seeing full trains most of the time and knowing a lot of people that use it. It is heartening to see riders in the evenings, for event nights, and during the day on weekends. The rail isn't just being used for commutes so even if the numbers level off, it seems quite a few people have found the train useful (even accounting for those that have come to ride it just to check it out and might not ride again). Whether it is averaging 8000 per day, 12,0000 per day, or any number in between, we can very safely say the ant-rail cries that *no one will ride it* or that the minimum numbers estimated early on wouldn't be met just aren't coming true. On the other hand the numbers CATS had hoped for are certainly being met and/or exceeded.

As much of a proponent and supporter as I was from the beginning, I can't say I expected early ridership to be this high. I thought it would take longer for people to catch on and especially in winter months to begin using the rail regularly. I'm also glad anyone can get on board and see that the mix of people is extremely varied. I also hope anyone that isn't blind can now see that the claims that all the areas around the stations are a far cry from the *rich* parts of town.

Edited by Charlotte_native
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I have a monthly pass. It's the same as a monthly local bus pass. Wachovia highly encourages employees to get 'em, and offers them at a nice discount. I bet BofA does the same. That doesn't full address the 8k shortfall you're discussing, but I thought I'd mention it.

The train doesn't really have an equivalent of the "ten rides" though. Closes thing would be to buy the "ten rides" anyway and run them through a fare machine at a bus just to get transfer tickets. You'd have to REALLY be a miser to go to this much trouble. :rolleyes:

I'm under the impression that a 10-ride pass equates to an all-you-can-ride weekly pass for Lynx. The 10-ride limit is for local buses, but if you flash that 10-ride pass on a Lynx they'll accept it.

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......I'm under the impression that a 10-ride pass equates to an all-you-can-ride weekly pass for Lynx. The 10-ride limit is for local buses, but if you flash that 10-ride pass on a Lynx they'll accept it.
This is on the Lynx Website. "10-ride passes and STS yellow tickets are not valid on LYNX services."
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If at this point 20% of riders are either riding "free" or are unable to use the machines to get a ticket, that accounts for 2,400 riders a day. Factor in bus transfers (20%?) and monthly passes and the number comes back up around 10-12,000. Sounds about right to me.

I really doubt that CATS would release fake ridership numbers, as it would require career suicide by the person responsible for the deception. Sounds like the problem originates in the ability to collect fares for a significant number of riders, and the obvious fact that many legit riders don't end up putting money in a ticket machine.

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If at this point 20% of riders are either riding "free" or are unable to use the machines to get a ticket, that accounts for 2,400 riders a day. ....
Just keep in mind this is 1 out of 5 people riding the train. i.e. 1 out of 5 are not paying. Not a very good statistic.

I can believe that 1 out of 5 might have transferred off a bus.

But even allowing for all of that, one arrives at 8723 fares/day. That is less than the 9100 projected and which means there are close to 3300 riders unaccounted for.

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I'm not sure where you got your numbers from but according to the Observer story from today first month's revenue translates to 5300 full fare tickets per day not 3923.

I saw on another website where it's presented that CATS is carrying far fewer people on the trains than that which is claimed by CATS. The perception of packed trains is from the fact that CATs isn't running enough trains to handle the volumes at any particular time. I have noticed that when I was on a train that was full of people there were a significant number of trains off-line in the rail yard near Clanton Rd. (for whatever reason) And though it might be partially related to the ticket machine failures, CATS assumed that it would collect $6100/day the first year it was open yet the number is about $1000 less than that. $5,100.00/$1.30 = 3923 full fares/day.

Something does not add up here. If they are in fact carrying 12,000 people day, they are only collecting money = 1/4th of that. I don't believe that the other 8000/day can be explained away by non-payers, reduce fares and/or bus xfers.

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I'm not sure where you got your numbers from but according to the Observer story from today first month's revenue translates to 5300 full fare tickets per day not 3923.
The math is simple enough and I explained my analysis so I am not sure why you might be confused about it. Feel free to check the sums yourself and I welcome you to address what I posted. Maybe the Observer reporter does not know how to use a calculator, but I don't consider the O to be the definitive source for most things.
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I'm not sure where you got your numbers from but according to the Observer story from today first month's revenue translates to 5300 full fare tickets per day not 3923.

Even the John Locke Foundation is "reporting" similar numbers as the Observer in their Meck Deck Blog. They report about 5488 tickets per day....which is reported in their blog as $7135 per day.

http://charlotte.johnlocke.org/blog/?p=2076

I think when you consider that about half of the 12,000 riders have some type of pass not bought at the TVM (monthly or bus transfer) and add in the 5488 that pay at the TVM you come up with about 500 people day that don't pay a fare. That means that about 4% or riders not paying a fare.

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^ I suspect that it's more than 4%... maybe not the 20 I mentioned before but probably quite high given the circumstances (broken machines, little enforcement, new concept). As monsoon said, whatever the number is it is probably not good and the situation needs to be remedied before it gets too far out of hand.

The thing is, most riders would probably pay the fee and ride IF it were convenient and enforcement was likely. What we are talking about is not missing riders but a steady stream of income that is missing from the system.

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Even the John Locke Foundation is "reporting" similar numbers as the Observer in their Meck Deck Blog. They report about 5488 tickets per day....which is reported in their blog as $7135 per day.
Hmm, in reading that article they come up with 7100 ridership. That is less than the 8723 that I allowed for above.
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