Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[LKN704]

Rode the extension for the first time today, and all I can say is it was like riding with a teenage driver!

We would speed up and then come to an abrupt stop without warning at multiple points throughout the journey from JW Clay to CTC. Areas that I thought we would be accelerating and going relatively quickly (like between Old Concord and Sugar Creek), we moved really slowly. It was really weird. 

I will say though that the parking structure at JW Clay was PACKED and I had to park near the top to get a spot. 

[KJHburg]

^^^ that is good it was packed probably Univ area and Cabarrus commuters parking there and that is good hopefully not the college students though with their weird parking fee collection times only in the afternoon.  

In terms of fare gates we need more visible security and fare checkers.  I don't think it is a burden or anything as I always pay.  I remember whipping out my ticket in Vienna one time when asked first in German then in English.    In Hong Kongs extensive subway, street trams, buses etc you can't get on anything without paying cash or using their Octupus pass.  However I would settle for more visible security/fare checkers. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by KJHburg

[kermit]

31 minutes ago, Scribe said:

...All that to say, have you considered that the reason there is no discussion of meter maids (aka Park It) is because there isn't a problem with Park It? At least nowhere near the problem that everyone, but CATS, sees with fair evasion on the Lynx!

How would we know that there is not a problem with parking fare evasion? Has an audit ever been done in Charlotte?

Edited March 27, 2018 by kermit

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I would imagine most of the commuters to uptown have their monthly passes. They should have the income usually. As you pointed out, you need a ticket to get on a bus (and lots of people transfer at lots of stations). UNCC students get on free via their tuition. Maybe increased guards during holidays?

When I lived in South America, you would just jump on the bus or tram, then pay the ticket checker on the spot if you didn't have a ticket or pass already.  They seemed to understand down there that, sometimes one has to jump on the bus or tram quickly before it leaves the station. Doing it this way would solve several problems : higher visiblity ( for the weenies like me who like to see uniforms), No throwing  people off, or fining,  offer a service for those potentially stuck at the station feeding the awful ticket machines, and allow tourists to ask questions of a friendly face. And, of course, provide a little employment.

[Scribe]

32 minutes ago, kermit said:

How would we know that there is not a problem with parking fare evasion?

So, you want to manufacture a problem in an area despised by you (automotive) to distract and overlook the real/known problem in an area favored by you (public transit), do I understand you correctly?

I see Park It enforcement staff out if force 6 out of 7 days on Charlotte streets -- doing their job.  I have yet to witness or be asked to present a ticket on the Lynx -- even when the CATS enforcers are on the train. WTF are we paying those people for?

[Matthew.Brendan]

3 hours ago, HighRiseHillbilly said:

Besides the uniform, it's no different than ticket checking on any other train since before your grandma was born. 

Ahh but the uniforms are in fact an important mark of distinction, no? They embody a certain kind of power in their own right. That’s pretty much the defining characterization of what makes a Uniform special.

I can not think of any train in any city that I have visited where train fares have been collected by someone in Police garb wielding a firearm.

 

[kermit]

40 minutes ago, Scribe said:

So, you want to manufacture a problem in an area despised by you (automotive) to distract and overlook the real/known problem in an area favored by you (public transit), do I understand you correctly?

Nope. I am just trying to make clear that rail is not the only mode that suffers from free rider problems and the problem should be contextualized appropriately before we decide it’s worthwhile to spend millions on turnstiles. 

[Scribe]

I am not an advocate of turnstiles.

There are people, today, that show up on trains, whose job (among other things) is to check tickets of the riders and they are currently not doing that task. At this point, CATS needs to only make sure the staff is doing their job. Each train car is equipped with 4 (I believe - minimum of 2) cameras, they can at least enforce if their staff is performing the tasks that they are hired to do.

They can get enough revenue out of fare evaders to -- at the very least -- study better ways to validate fares.

As an example where fare checkers work -- on a busy line -- without any turnstiles is Jerusalem.

[nakers2]

I think a simple solution/alternative to doing random on train checks is to have a fare enforcement officer on the platform, or near the fare machines in the decks "reminding" people to purchase a ticket. A simple "hey guys, you can get your ticket right here!" could be enough to scare a group of teens into paying up, or informing some out of towners that our train is not in fact a free ride. Signage on the way to the platform could help too, like "Have your pass handy!" or "Don't forget your ticket, it could cost you!" The only real signage I see are the not so conspicuous "Fare Zone" boundaries, which are earth tone on the Extension so they're even less noticable, and the very small, advertisement sized placards on the trains that explain the fare evasion penalties in like a paragraph that no commuter is ever gonna read if they're with friends or crammed in like sardines. 

[JacksonH]

6 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

The first enforcement of tickets that I have seen included northbound at Sugar Creek just as I was exiting last night 2 officers boarded. Then this morning southbound 2 got on at CTC. 

Its a pretty crapty method for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is because it feels like a shake down (because that’s basically what it is) when I am just trying to ride the train and then you have Law Enforcement Officers step on and basically interrogate everyone. It just feels gross. 

 

6 hours ago, HighRiseHillbilly said:

Besides the uniform, it's no different than ticket checking on any other train since before your grandma was born. 

Exactly.  Ride Amtrak and trains in Europe and there are ALWAYS uniformed officials checking tickets.  San Diego's lightrail system has an honor code like Charlotte, and unformed officials come on board often and check tickets.  If you paid for your ticket, why should you care?

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by JacksonH

[Matthew.Brendan]

^^ Please read my follow up response regarding this (a few posts up). I would argue it absolutely does matter (in terms of public perception, and how it feels) what uniform the ticket collectors wear. Do Amtrak ticket collectors wear police uniform garb and carry firearms?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Matthew.Brendan

[JacksonH]

22 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Not to mention, why tie into Amtrak, when that stations lifespan is MAYBE 5 years max

But in the meantime, it wouldn't take that much effort to pave a sidewalk from Amtrak to one of those two Lynx stations so people can more easily get there with their luggage.  If it's nothing but mud and gravel, that puts up an immediate wall between Amtrak and Lynx.  Five years is a long time for frequent Amtrak riders.

[EllAyyDub]

I was under the impression the Amtrak station was on the other side of the tracks, and would require a large bridge or tunnel to connect to the light rail line, which would cost an exorbitant amount for a temporary problem.

[JacksonH]

1 hour ago, EllAyyDub said:

I was under the impression the Amtrak station was on the other side of the tracks, and would require a large bridge or tunnel to connect to the light rail line, which would cost an exorbitant amount for a temporary problem.

You may very well be correct about that.  I have the disadvantage of being very far away and I am relying on the good people of Charlotte to take me on these Lynx light rail adventures.  I was watching some videos someone in Charlotte posted the other day on Youtube and took a virtual ride on the BLE.  I didn't notice (wasn't paying attention) that there was no way to cross over.  I saw what appeared to be a chain link fence and a dirt path alongside it towards the station.  So I was under the impression they just needed to make an opening in that fence, and pave the path.  But I may be wrong.

[KJHburg]

Light rail Uptown = the perfect way for @niner_baseball to get to BB&T Ballpark for the game tonight vs. North Carolina at 7 p.m.

 

 

Hey

^^From UNC Charlotte twitter feed

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by KJHburg

[LKN704]

IMO, I personally believe that CATS will eventually add fare gates to select stations sometime in the next 5-10 years.

Several transit systems have successfully added fare gates to several outdoor light rail stations-both LA Metro and Portland's MAX come to mind.

I don't think it would be feasible to add fare gates to every station, but rather the stations that are physically isolated, grade separated and/or elevated. JW Clay Blvd,  Sugar Creek station, 36th Street Station, CTC, 3rd/Convention, Stonewall, Tyvola, Archdale, and I-485/South Blvd station all seem feasible to add them to me. I'm willing to bet that these stations also feature (or will soon feature) the highest enplanement per station across the system. 

__

Also, I'm bothered by the fact that:

1. Both trains I rode in today featured old maps posted in the cars

2. The automated announcements in the station still say "Train to Uptown/7th st" rather than "UNC Charlotte Main"

3. The automated announcements in the train make no mention of being able to transfer to the Gold Line at CTC

Edited March 27, 2018 by LKN704

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, EllAyyDub said:

 doI was under the impression the Amtrak station was on the other side of the tracks, and would require a large bridge or tunnel to connect to the light rail line, which would cost an exorbitant amount for a temporary problem.

a path or walkway from either the 25th St or Parkwood stations is completely unfeasible due to the fact Norfolk Southern has a very active 10-15 rail lines between these stations and the Amtrak station.  It would be too long a tunnel or elevated walkway even if money was there to it.  In 5 years or so the station will be uptown and all will be great (still not connected to LYNX but at least to the streetcar)   Check it out on Google maps look for N Brevard and 25th St. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by KJHburg

[15895]

Campus, 7pm train is packed with 49er’s. I don’t think it’s for the baseball game.

 

Funny enough, Everyone got off the train because we heard “this train is out of service”. It turned out to be the train on the other side. So a pile of students got off. Just for the doors to shut and start leaving. The driver had zero sympathy for a crowd of students that made the mistake. Probably 80% less full because of that 

 

but technically the train isn’t that full because of the mistake lol 

[nmundo]

The 7:35 train (the one I’m on right now) was also insanely packed with students. I’d be really surprised if it’s not for the game.


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[JacksonH]

20 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

a path or walkway from either the 25th St or Parkwood stations is completely unfeasible due to the fact Norfolk Southern has a very active 10-15 rail lines between these stations and the Amtrak station.  It would be too long a tunnel or elevated walkway even if money was there to it.  In 5 years or so the station will be uptown and all will be great (still not connected to LYNX but at least to the streetcar)   Check it out on Google maps look for N Brevard and 25th St. 

I see where I made my mistake!  I saw this building on this Youtube video, fairly close to the light rail tracks, and assumed it was the Amtrak station.  But I see from a map that the Amtrak station is set far back behind a bunch of heavy rail tracks.  So no, I agree that trying to connect the current Amtrak station to a Lynx station would be a problem.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

It made zero sense not to connect Amtrak's shed to the BLE in my opinion.   If a bridge for cars can be built over the tracks, a bike/ped bridge couldn't?    The Amtrak BLE connection would have created a spark for development at the existing Amtrak station.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gateway, but sometimes work with you got?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Phillydog

[HighRiseHillbilly]

3 hours ago, JacksonH said:

 

Exactly.  Ride Amtrak and trains in Europe and there are ALWAYS uniformed officials checking tickets.  San Diego's lightrail system has an honor code like Charlotte, and unformed officials come on board often and check tickets.  If you paid for your ticket, why should you care?

 

 

That's exactly what I was thinking of. I remember being amused by the man taking tickets even the did not seem to be as amused. Eh....it's a living.

[deaconator]

3. The automated announcements in the train make no mention of being able to transfer to the Gold Line at CTC

Theoretically yes but the Gold Line is a freaking cluster and is almost never running at the 15 minute intervals it is supposed to. It would be unfair and dishonest to advertise a connection to a glorified Disney ride that is closed or running at double their stated intervals a significant portion of the time.

I think CATS is just punting on Gold Line until Phase II opens. What a waste.


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[AuLukey]

Theoretically yes but the Gold Line is a freaking cluster and is almost never running at the 15 minute intervals it is supposed to. It would be unfair and dishonest to advertise a connection to a glorified Disney ride that is closed or running at double their stated intervals a significant portion of the time.

I think CATS is just punting on Gold Line until Phase II opens. What a waste.


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I’ll second that opinion. For now, until the line is extended, riding the Gold Line is pretty useless. If we notice a train is waiting to disembark under CTC we’ll hop on it to grab a bite to eat up by Presbyterian Hospital. But unless the train is about to arrive, we usually just walk back to uptown, never being passed by a train the entire time. It’s just as quick to walk, if not quicker.

I see it as a cute attraction that is really only convenient if you get there right as the train arrives. That, and it’s convenient for those that are physically unable to walk that distance.

Once the line is extended and updated with faster, more frequent vehicles, then I could see it being a valid mode of transit worthy of being advertised on the Blue Line.

Edit: I think it is a bit of a waste that, since they are updating the maps on the trains anyway, they may as well include the gold line (and draw dotted lines for the future segments.) Just to make people aware. I’ve seen this done on maps for pretty much every other rail system I’ve been on.

[kermit]

On 3/22/2018 at 5:11 PM, kermit said:

File this under ‘premature extrapolation’ 

I have now had four rush hours in the BLE doing a reverse commute (outbound to UNCC in morning). 

Ridership has been fairly consistent all week, about 40-50 passengers per train (based on counting people in the car i am in). I have looked in quite a few trains going the other direction and they look about the same. 

Rough math says 50 x 240 trains per day is  (generously) about 12,000 riders per day. This is about 1/3 below expectations. 

I hope things pick up (and I think they will).

It looks to me like there is less UNCC traffic than expected and a bit more traffic from the midpoints. 

This week has been much like last week on the BLE. Still seeing about 40 passengers per train after 9th street. Decks at Sugar Creek and U City remain mostly empty. JW Clay deck still appears to be about 1/2 full. The bright spot is Old Concord, about 100 cars in the lot today (about double last week). The other bright spot is the ride was nearly 5 minutes faster this week than last

I also got to sit behind the driver today, the "rubber band" problem (speeding up and slowing down) appears to be tied to the crossovers (the train slowed abruptly before every one) as well as the grade crossing gates. There were quite a few CATS workers who appeared to be working on the gates this morning.

I am also skeptical they are actually running 10 minute headways midday -- I have consistently had to wait longer than that around 10am.