Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

The problem is more the "X" pattern of the Silver Line and Blue Line as a hub and spoke system and whether riders will frequently transfer between trains. The same problem exists for the bus system being a spoke system where it is inefficient to have to go all the way Uptown to get between South Charlotte and East Charlotte, versus a more direct route. 

Take somebody going from Matthews to UNCC. It is a 25 minute drive around the I-485 outer loop or will be around a 1 hour and 15 minute commute via the train. The passenger will have a 35 minute ride all the way to Uptown, wait ~5-8 mins for the next train, and then make the 35 minute ride up to UNCC. 

Somebody going from the airport to Scaleybark Station to grab a beer at Olde Meck would have a ~15 minute drive. On the train you'd have 20 minutes from CLT to Uptown, 5 minutes of transfer time, and then 15 minutes from Uptown to Scaleybark for a 40 minute trip. 

The problem already exists for the Gold Line and Blue line. Say you are going from Novant Hospital over to the Design Center. It is a 9 minute drive. Via train, you have 12 minutes on the Gold Line from Novant to CTC station, 5 minutes of waiting, and 13 minutes on the Blue Line for 30 minutes total. 

The point is tunnel or no tunnel, connecting isn't going to be a very efficient option for most travelers due to the X pattern. Hence the system will continue to be primarily used as a commuter line for people with their end destination being directly on the route of the train they are taking, rather than a connecting system (i.e. direct from South End to UNCC on one train rather than South End to Airport on two trains)

Regardless of the layout, there are going to need to be transfers unless we had a fully built out London, Paris or New York style subway system. I'm not sure how there is anything besides an "X" pattern with 2/3 lines.

[Rufus]

3 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Regardless of the layout, there are going to need to be transfers unless we had a fully built out London, Paris or New York style subway system. I'm not sure how there is anything besides an "X" pattern with 2/3 lines.

And just to dispel some myths about the NYC system. To get from Lower Manhattan to above Central Park can take almost an hour, not including delays. To get from the start to finish along the A train can take almost 2 hours. 

[tozmervo]

2 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Regardless of the layout, there are going to need to be transfers unless  even if we had a fully built out London, Paris or New York style subway system. I'm not sure how there is anything besides an "X" pattern with 2/3 lines.

ftfy

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

10 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

ftfy

Mostly true. There could be a circular (485) line that you could get you from Matthews to UNCC.

[CLT2014]

15 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Regardless of the layout, there are going to need to be transfers unless we had a fully built out London, Paris or New York style subway system. I'm not sure how there is anything besides an "X" pattern with 2/3 lines.

And transfers will be possible at the 11th Street / Blue Line junction station for the group of customers that do want to transfer from Silver to Blue. The cost of a tunnel though could be a major jump on building additional lines to support the broader network, including non-Uptown lines at some point (i.e. Airport to South Park to UNCC half loop line).

Edited June 30, 2020 by CLT2014

[michaelef]

On 6/25/2020 at 11:40 AM, Hushpuppy321 said:

Thanks for the info.  Do you prefer the Sycamore/Artherton stop or the Spectrum/Publix and Why?

I prefer the Sycamore/Atherton stop because of the redevelopment potential on the Sycamore side of the tracks even though it looks to be only a few hundred (600) feet away from each other.

I know the stop is needed but part of me doesn't want it because I feel like (if you're heading towards 85) this is where the lynx starts to pick up speed. I live right at the 36th street station so most of my ride towards southend or further moves at a crawl. 

Selfish rant over, thanks for letting me vent

[JHart]

20 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

Well yeah... that’s what light rail is. It isn’t a metro system and shouldn’t be expected to act as one. I would much rather take a 30 minute ride for less than 5 dollars than spend the same amount of time adding to already congested traffic and/or paying $25-$30 to use a ride share.

I also think your 40 minutes for 2 miles statement is exaggerated and doesn’t reflect the overall accuracy of times, as it has never taken me even half of that amount of time to travel the same stops. 

I was mostly talking about using both trains, since people were saying if the Blue/Silver lines aren't connected at a common platform than it makes it useless for commuting. My point is that people will really never take both lines, so it wouldn't matter as much if there was a walk between.

The 40 minutes might be a slight bit exaggerated, but unless you live in Novel at the 36th stop and are going to Suffolk Punch basically on the platform, you're going to have to walk. Add in a 5 minute wait on the platform and it definitely has taken that long before.

I'm still a big proponent of the system, it just can be disappointing  at times what we get when BLE is basically a year old

[Desert Power]

4 hours ago, JHart said:

I was mostly talking about using both trains, since people were saying if the Blue/Silver lines aren't connected at a common platform than it makes it useless for commuting. My point is that people will really never take both lines, so it wouldn't matter as much if there was a walk between.

The 40 minutes might be a slight bit exaggerated, but unless you live in Novel at the 36th stop and are going to Suffolk Punch basically on the platform, you're going to have to walk. Add in a 5 minute wait on the platform and it definitely has taken that long before.

I'm still a big proponent of the system, it just can be disappointing  at times what we get when BLE is basically a year old

If people aren't switching from Silver to Blue then using Silver to commute to a job uptown is pretty useless.

[kermit]

That paragon of solid investigative journalism, Inside Edition, swabbed the inside of NYC subway cars and tested them for the presence of virus. Turns out every swab was clean. More evidence, added to a massive pile of it, that mass transit is not a place where much (if any) spread occurs.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by kermit

[TheMightyBK]

I'm no expert, but I don't think surface contact has ever been thought to be a big source of spread of the virus.  Not that it cannot spread from surface contact...but that people breathing/coughing/sneezing in close proximity to one another is how it spreads best...like in a crowded train.   If the trains aren't crowded and people wear masks and spread out as best as they can, it's probably not spreading...but if trains are full and people are shoulder to shoulder, well, I'd wait for another train...

[kermit]

On 7/18/2020 at 12:23 PM, TheMightyBK said:

I'm no expert, but I don't think surface contact has ever been thought to be a big source of spread of the virus.  Not that it cannot spread from surface contact...but that people breathing/coughing/sneezing in close proximity to one another is how it spreads best...like in a crowded train.   If the trains aren't crowded and people wear masks and spread out as best as they can, it's probably not spreading...but if trains are full and people are shoulder to shoulder, well, I'd wait for another train...

Surface contact got lots of attention when the virus first arrived, but studies have consistently found it not to be a significant vector. Lots of the hysterical ‘cities are done’ takes focused on surface transmission (e.g. elevator buttons). Mass transit (crowded or not) has been consistently shown to not be a major vector either, its speculated that the lack of talking and limited period of occupancy in the vehicles are the things that have limiting virus spread on transit, there was concerning news about bus operators in London and a few here, but no evidence that passengers have contracted the virus while riding transit. Outbreaks have never been seen emanating from the very crowded transit in Taiwan, Japan, Europe and NYC (as MightyBK points out, masks have always been worn in Asia)

Edited July 19, 2020 by kermit

[TheMightyBK]

Surface contact got lots of attention when the virus first arrived, but studies have consistently found it not to be a significant vector. Lots of the hysterical ‘cities are done’ takes focused on surface transmission (e.g. elevator buttons). Mass transit (crowded or not) has been consistently shown to not be a major vector either, its speculated that the lack of talking and limited period of occupancy in the vehicles are the things that have limiting virus spread on transit. Outbreaks have never been seen emanating from the very crowded transit in Taiwan, Japan, Europe and NYC. 

True. And what do they do consistently as a community that we don’t? They wear masks to protect themselves and others. They have done this drill many times, so knew as a society that mitigation is a best practice. It’s about respect there. In the US, we have not seen this happen, other than 1918. History is repeating itself. I’m getting a little off topic here, but mass transit in itself is not the issue. Behavior is the issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kermit]

First Blue Line ride in a while. Not crowded. Mask compliance was only so so, was disappointed that one of two fare checkers (wearing a shirt that said "Police") was not wearing mask properly and did not say anything to someone without a mask while checking her fare. Come on people, everybody riding public transit is in the same 'boat,' public health only works when we all do it.

The ride on the BLE appears to have gotten a couple minutes longer, maybe a quirk of the trip. But I suspect slow orders still exist at the UNCC approach (a known problem for a long while) and the Old Concord station curve. Also a few of the standard N Tryon crossing issues appear to remain. I was really hoping they could have addressed some of that during the lull, wishful thinking I guess. 

I really hope they are knocking out those mid-life overhauls on the 100 series vehicles.

Edited October 21, 2020 by kermit

[LKN704]

I wouldn't be surprised if the fare enforcement team is being specifically told not to enforce the mask rule. 

I know in DC face coverings are required but Metro has repeatedly said that they will not refuse to transport anyone who either doesn't have a face covering or electively refuses to comply, which brings me to the question of why even make it a requirement. 

 

[kermit]

Be prepared CATS. Mask enforcement will go a long way towards heading this problem off:

 

[davidclt]

Interesting video from Vox on public transport in the US . Charlotte, et al. at 5 minutes mark.

https://boingboing.net/2020/10/23/why-american-public-transport-is-so-bad.html

[lit]

Blue Line is operating on Sunday Schedule seven days a week until further notice, according to their Twitter

[CLT2014]

7 hours ago, lit said:

Blue Line is operating on Sunday Schedule seven days a week until further notice, according to their Twitter

Not a great look if going for the Big Bang vote. Vehicle traffic is building back up steadily for people doing errands, going to entertainment, etc.. the city isn't a ghost town anymore.

This indicates that CATS is failing to compete and move people for uses other than an alternative to driving to work Uptown.

Edited January 4, 2021 by CLT2014

[RANYC]

5 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Not a great look if going for the Big Bang vote. Vehicle traffic is building back up steadily for people doing errands, going to entertainment, etc.. the city isn't a ghost town anymore.

This indicates that CATS is failing to compete and move people for uses other than an alternative to driving to work Uptown.

so let's see...stimulus package just approved with money for transit systems...transformational mobility tax vote likely to come later this year extending light rail infrastructure...

people are apprehensive to take light rail given COVID and I've not come across any CATS mass campaigns raising awareness of anything the agency is doing to make the trains safe, or anything they're doing to prepare for and raise confidence in people's potential "Return to Transit (RTT)." 

Like honestly, why should a dime more be poured into this thing when it certainly doesn't appear to be managed like the expensive community asset it is?  All they appear to be doing is making this system even less relevant to people's mobility

Edited January 4, 2021 by RANYC

[Richhamleigh, DC]

On 10/22/2020 at 12:56 PM, kermit said:

Be prepared CATS. Mask enforcement will go a long way towards heading this problem off:

 

The pro-transit people should be talking about fiscal efficiency, social engineering, tax subsidies, and wasting taxpayer dollars, and how "development follows transportation".  NCDOT is facing a funding crisis but towns and counties continue to approve development along 2-lane roads built for moving farm equipment and scattered houses/farms where no water, sewer, libraries, police, fire or schools exist.  Meanwhile, infrastructure that's already been built and paid for, sits underutilitized in existing town and city centers.  Remind me again how sprawl is fiscally conservative?   Transit systems across the country are facing the same issues related to Covid - it's not just Charlotte.  Has anyone looked at VMT and AADT for the last 10 months?  I know from driving I-85 and 40 in the Triangle every weekday that traffic volumes on these freeways has collapsed since March.  Are we bemoaning the reduced VMT and reduced revenues from gas taxes?  Has anyone been to an airport lately?  ALL transportation is being impacted by Covid.  In the long-term, fixed route transit is associated with the most efficient pattern of urban development and use of public resources.  

Edited January 5, 2021 by Phillydog

[tozmervo]

[dylansukkert]

Wow. 

[Blue_Devil]

5 minutes ago, dylansukkert said:

Wow. 

I mean it stinks, but no one is using it with Covid right now. They can use this time to service Vehicles that need it, and be up to full speed when this is all over. 

[KJHburg]

^^^^ that is why I believe this years proposed referendum on a massive transit expansion is not a good idea

[CLT2014]

CATS: "We are reducing service to make ridership fall even further. If you actually have somewhere to go and don't want it to take an hour, you can purchase a cheap car here: autotrader.com, edmunds.com, facebook.com/marketplace... oh but after you buy that car, vote for more of this train thing."