Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[elrodvt]

I don't get the after game thing and never have. In Denver RTD would always have extra trains lined up after games. When I leave hornets games (now due to covid I haven't gone much in last 2yr- so old info) there never seems to be accommodation for high drawing games. This should be an easy thing to do, right?

[RANYC]

3 hours ago, go_vertical said:

Comparing the two is pretty disengenuous and you know that.  One is one of largest (certainly the most stations by far) systems in the world, absolutely necessary for the city to operate, and arguably the life-blood of the region while the other one is a straight line (I barely count the gold like at the moment) in its infancy in a city where an overwhelmingly large portion of the population or businesses don't live within walking distance of a station.  One is heavy rail that moves much faster with more frequency while the other crawls past traffic and gets interrupted nearly weekly because some idiot in a 3 series can't tell the difference between steel tracks and asphalt.  One is in a city that literally grew up around and with it while the other has been squeezed into a car-centric southern city that is trying to navigate through breaking its automobile addiction.  One is so integrated into the city that it's use is a complete afterthought while the other is literally an extra unnecessary step for a sizeable portion of its potential users. 

Transit in NY is baked into life.  So many people don't even own vehicles there because it isn't even a problem you devote brain cells to up there.  This is why the MTA has the luxury of allowing some of the minor problems to linger, because people will still have to use it even with someone shooting up or dropping a deuce in the corner.  It sucks that those things happen but that's just life in the city.  Could you imagine how much ridership would plummet if we had even a quarter of the crime at our stations here?

Now, here in Charlotte a very small percentage of the residents could say they NEED our system.  Nearly everyone owns a car and parking is abundant, albeit at a steadily increasing price in some areas.  Traffic, while pretty rough in places, is still not as horrible as many other large cities. It isn't even comparable to Atlanta and I moved here from Orlando over ten years ago and I still don't think traffic here today is as bad as it was there a decade ago. What we have here is a (an increasingly less shiny and new) option or dare I say toy to try out for most people. 

Because of all of this CATS and the city should be doing everything they can to improve our system and not let it stagnate in so many areas.  Hell, some promised aspects of it still haven't been delivered after fifteen years (vehicle tracking).  They have a real uphill battle before them and to be frank the finicky nature of the populace absolutely should not be a surprise to them.  Anybody that is offered a new product will try it out.  If that product doesn't impress them and they don't need it then they will go back to what they had before.  That's the free market baby. 

Thank you for repeating my post of the obvious point that Charlotte isn’t NYC. 

Quite interesting to get the glib lesson on the Free Market in a thread about a government transit agency.

Glad you have the privilege to see CATS as a type of toy store.

My original post merely talked about the importance of broad engagement with a public system like a transit line  as key to its improvement and to increasing its alignment over time.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by RANYC

[slipperypete]

6 hours ago, RANYC said:

Thank you for repeating my post of the obvious point that Charlotte isn’t NYC. 

Quite interesting to get the glib lesson on the Free Market in a thread about a government transit agency.

Glad you have the privilege to see CATS as a type of toy store.

My original post merely talked about the importance of broad engagement with a public system like a transit line  as key to its improvement and to increasing its alignment over time.

You make some interesting points (and some not) in this thread. But with this kind of response you make it very clear that you have no interest in really reading and honestly engaging in others' points of view.  Too bad. 

[RANYC]

55 minutes ago, slipperypete said:

You make some interesting points (and some not) in this thread. But with this kind of response you make it very clear that you have no interest in really reading and honestly engaging in others' points of view.  Too bad. 

I disagree with you.  And I’m too busy for too lengthy an exchange where fundamental differences exist.

To recap, this began with me arguing that I’d had some decent CATS experiences and encouraging anyone involved in a “Blue Line” thread on UP to continue to give CATS chances because it’s been a brutal time for transit systems nationwide and frankly, in auto-centric and road-obsessed America, such systems tend to be chronically under-funded and antagonized.

In transit systems, people of all backgrounds and motivations come together and share spaces and services for mobility.  There’s a big swath of the country very skeptical of and hostile to such sharing, and resourcing transit is often an uphill climb.

My assumption is that UP is largely comprised of true urbanists, and IMO, true urbanity needs transit.  In my world view, a true urbanist never writes off transit usage.  She/he constructively engages where she/he can.  She/he also knows that transit serving the masses in a largely Jeffersonian country that chronically under-funds and under-prioritizes transit systems deserves our consistent engagement but also our unyielding advocacy, our patience, our understanding.

You all disagree and that’s fine.  It’s your right.

[Durhamite]

2 hours ago, RANYC said:

I disagree with you.  And I’m too busy for too lengthy an exchange where fundamental differences exist.

To recap, this began with me arguing that I’d had some decent CATS experiences and encouraging anyone involved in a “Blue Line” thread on UP to continue to give CATS chances because it’s been a brutal time for transit systems nationwide and frankly, in auto-centric and road-obsessed America, such systems tend to be chronically under-funded and antagonized.

In transit systems, people of all backgrounds and motivations come together and share spaces and services for mobility.  There’s a big swath of the country very skeptical of and hostile to such sharing, and resourcing transit is often an uphill climb.

My assumption is that UP is largely comprised of true urbanists, and IMO, true urbanity needs transit.  In my world view, a true urbanist never writes off transit usage.  She/he constructively engages where she/he can.  She/he also knows that transit serving the masses in a largely Jeffersonian country that chronically under-funds and under-prioritizes transit systems deserves our consistent engagement but also our unyielding advocacy, our patience, our understanding.

You all disagree and that’s fine.  It’s your right.

Exactly, people who have never experienced other transits systems as a regular rider, especially during a pandemic , of course the grass is greener…. You seem the only reasonable voice.  Denver LRT has had a lot of problems.

[slipperypete]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

You all disagree and that’s fine.  It’s your right.

Nobody is disagreeing with the points you've made.  

The point that was being articulated several times, which was not at all opposed to your point of view, was that there are some situations in this city, right now, for some people, where transit is a poor option. That's a fact. Some people are not riding the blue line home from a large uptown event until they're confident they're stacking trains. They're making a pragmatic decision for them and their family.  That's not wrong of them to do that. And I suspect that a typical poster on here will change their mind if/when CATS improves that service. The general public? Maybe, but they'll probably return more slowly than transit champions. 

You have a threshold too. If you know that transit for a certain trip would add some number of hours to your trip, and if you have an alternative, then there is a point where you will choose the alternative. Everyone's time and cost thresholds for that will differ.  It can change based on a person's budget, level of mobility, presence of small children, weather and other factors. 

And this was what I got from @go_vertical's comment about MTA vs CATS, to which you responded so negatively. Their comment didn't negate your point, nor did it agree/reiterate. It added a nuance.  The MTA rider simply doesn't have reasonable alternatives in most cases. They are hostages to the system and advocacy is the one and only thing to be done (beyond complaining, which is a good outlet). That's ok, since they are hostages to a mostly functional system.  The point was that CATS doesn't have that same captive audience. Many Charlotte riders have relatively inexpensive alternatives. So for some trips right now, some people will say no to the blue line or a bus line or whatever. That doesn't make them non-transit-supportive or anti-transit. It doesn't mean they're not patient or constructively engaging to help CATS improve. It just means riders have alternatives. 

For full disclosure, one of my thresholds is crosstown bus to bus transfers for a short errand somewhere. Meaning a transfer away from CTC or one of the hubs. Best case scenario my trip is 3x the time of a drive, and it's just too likely that I'm going to be stranded for 30+ minutes somewhere at least once on the trip. Hopefully there's a time in the future where headways are shorter and this is a better option.  I think it's also likely there will be growth and economic and possibly even policy changes that make car trips more painful/expensive and which will move our thresholds. I support that! But for now? I'll drive my car for a trip like this. 

TL;DR: It's good to champion transit!  And also, not everyone can justify taking transit for every trip in Charlotte right now. That's ok and doesn't make them not a champion of transit!  

[RANYC]

57 minutes ago, slipperypete said:

Nobody is disagreeing with the points you've made.  

The point that was being articulated several times, which was not at all opposed to your point of view, was that there are some situations in this city, right now, for some people, where transit is a poor option. That's a fact. Some people are not riding the blue line home from a large uptown event until they're confident they're stacking trains. They're making a pragmatic decision for them and their family.  That's not wrong of them to do that. And I suspect that a typical poster on here will change their mind if/when CATS improves that service. The general public? Maybe, but they'll probably return more slowly than transit champions. 

You have a threshold too. If you know that transit for a certain trip would add some number of hours to your trip, and if you have an alternative, then there is a point where you will choose the alternative. Everyone's time and cost thresholds for that will differ.  It can change based on a person's budget, level of mobility, presence of small children, weather and other factors. 

And this was what I got from @go_vertical's comment about MTA vs CATS, to which you responded so negatively. Their comment didn't negate your point, nor did it agree/reiterate. It added a nuance.  The MTA rider simply doesn't have reasonable alternatives in most cases. They are hostages to the system and advocacy is the one and only thing to be done (beyond complaining, which is a good outlet). That's ok, since they are hostages to a mostly functional system.  The point was that CATS doesn't have that same captive audience. Many Charlotte riders have relatively inexpensive alternatives. So for some trips right now, some people will say no to the blue line or a bus line or whatever. That doesn't make them non-transit-supportive or anti-transit. It doesn't mean they're not patient or constructively engaging to help CATS improve. It just means riders have alternatives. 

For full disclosure, one of my thresholds is crosstown bus to bus transfers for a short errand somewhere. Meaning a transfer away from CTC or one of the hubs. Best case scenario my trip is 3x the time of a drive, and it's just too likely that I'm going to be stranded for 30+ minutes somewhere at least once on the trip. Hopefully there's a time in the future where headways are shorter and this is a better option.  I think it's also likely there will be growth and economic and possibly even policy changes that make car trips more painful/expensive and which will move our thresholds. I support that! But for now? I'll drive my car for a trip like this. 

TL;DR: It's good to champion transit!  And also, not everyone can justify taking transit for every trip in Charlotte right now. That's ok and doesn't make them not a champion of transit!  

Good luck with your alternatives.  I'll let CATS know that the Blue Line's load to large events in Uptown just got a little lighter.

Edited March 25, 2022 by RANYC

[15895]

47 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Good luck with your alternatives.  I'll let CATS know that the Blue Line's load to large events in Uptown just got a little lighter.

I was going to respond earlier but opted against it. Several times. Because I don't like to contribute to topics being derailed.

The Emoji's you post, the "are you triggered/offended" comments you make, etc. etc.  don't make for conducive disagreements, independent opinions or even allow for conversation. It's childish and it's why I tend to sometimes just let the previous comments go and not respond but maybe you just have no self-awareness in this topic?

I get an alert that my post is responded to, and it's you asking if I'm triggered with crying emoji's etc.. I roll my eyes and move on because I'm not triggered.... No one else has came to you with "are you triggered" comments or these little emoji's etc. No one comes to UrbanPlanet to read Citydata Forum or Charlotte Observer comment Section quality content. The comment you responded to with a sarcastic jab and an emoji appears to have been made with thought, consideration and a point of view... If you're going to reply, why not extend the courtesy of a somewhat thoughtful reply back? 

Anywho. Maybe the Krispy Kreme CEO should post pictures of the Blue Line on here to steer it back on topic.

[go_vertical]

^^ Yeah, I'm not gonna bother anymore either because trying to have a conversation with a twelve year old who thinks they are edgy and cool gets pretty grating. 

[RANYC]

22 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I was going to respond earlier but opted against it. Several times. Because I don't like to contribute to topics being derailed.

The Emoji's you post, the "are you triggered/offended" comments you make, etc. etc.  don't make for conducive disagreements, independent opinions or even allow for conversation. It's childish and it's why I tend to sometimes just let the previous comments go and not respond but maybe you just have no self-awareness in this topic?

I get an alert that my post is responded to, and it's you asking if I'm triggered with crying emoji's etc.. I roll my eyes and move on because I'm not triggered.... No one else has came to you with "are you triggered" comments or these little emoji's etc. No one comes to UrbanPlanet to read Citydata Forum or Charlotte Observer comment Section quality content. The comment you responded to with a sarcastic jab and an emoji appears to have been made with thought, consideration and a point of view... If you're going to reply, why not extend the courtesy of a somewhat thoughtful reply back? 

Anywho. Maybe the Krispy Kreme CEO should post pictures of the Blue Line on here to steer it back on topic.

"Opting against it" was a constructive trend.  Don't let up now.  If you don't like the emojis, just continue to disregard them.  Don't let mere pixels on a screen rouse such irritation.

Entire thread has stayed on topic about CATS and its assets, including the Blue Line.  This started with me offering a counter-view that my experience with CATS assets for large events had been decent, and advocating patience on the part of urbanists given transit systems around the country are under siege.  Not sure how you all get so fiesty and serious over what I thought were tame comments and colorful emojis, but that's more your issue than mine. 

Hope you can have a pleasant and restful weekend. 

10 minutes ago, go_vertical said:

^^ Yeah, I'm not gonna bother anymore either because trying to have a conversation with a twelve year old who thinks they are edgy and cool gets pretty grating. 

Such anger/irritation over such trifle.  I wish you nothing but peace.

Edited March 25, 2022 by RANYC

[Reverie39]

Anyway...

Uh...

Oh here's something. Who else thinks we could have a streetcar line on Tyvola Rd connecting Southpark to the Tyvola Blue Line station? SouthPark is looking sort of disconnected from the developing transit network, including Silver Line.

[CLT2014]

2 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Anyway...

Uh...

Oh here's something. Who else thinks we could have a streetcar line on Tyvola Rd connecting Southpark to the Tyvola Blue Line station? SouthPark is looking sort of disconnected from the developing transit network, including Silver Line.

I think a route to South Park would be most effective as a upside down "T". One line that connects directly to the Uptown area by heading north and one line that forms a straight line along Tyvola / Fairview / Rama connecting both the Blue Line and Silver Line. This would address multiple potential commuting patterns such as Uptown -> South Park, Matthews -> South Park, Fort Mill -> South Park, Plaza Midwood -> South Park, et... with just one connection. 

The main challenge is how narrow Tyvola and Rama is in areas and the reality you'd likely need to tear down single family homes along the route at much opposition and cost. There is also a big elevation change around Marion Diehl Park.  Anything transit would need to be completely separated from traffic as we've seen the Gold Line's mixed traffic approach is slow and not really any better than a bus. Reducing traffic down to one lane in each direction though would probably have people lose their minds as Tyvola is already struggling with two lanes in each direction

Edited March 26, 2022 by CLT2014

[elrodvt]

Dumb question but you could get probably around that with elevated tracks (L). I assume that's prohibitively expensive? 

[LKN704]

I can already smell the NIMBYism that would arise of any fixed guideway transit line that touches the South Park/Park Rd/Barclay Downs areas...

[Madison Parkitect]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:03 PM, elrodvt said:

Dumb question but you could get probably around that with elevated tracks (L). I assume that's prohibitively expensive? 

Elevated is really the only way to do it and even then it's questionable I think. The problem is for most of the entire Tyvola-to-Independence stretch, it's two lanes each way with no center median. So you're either reducing it to one lane each way or widening the street a few feet on each side to get the track structure down the middle.

[kermit]

12 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

Elevated is really the only way to do it and even then it's questionable I think. The problem is for most of the entire Tyvola-to-Independence stretch, it's two lanes each way with no center median. So you're either reducing it to one lane each way or widening the street a few feet on each side to get the track structure down the middle.

Road diets generally turn out to be fine (just sayin)

[CLT2014]

Even with a diet down to just one lane in each direction though , once you factor in the width of station platforms, et... I don't think it can be built without eminent domain of homes on at least one side of Tyvola through Montclaire / Madison Park area. Maybe 24 SFH homes on the south-side of Tyvola, the front lawn of the CMS school campus, the front buildings of Elmsley Grove apartments,  cut behind the old SunTrust near Ross, and then buy out the BioLife plasma building for the station to connect at Tyvola.

Edited March 28, 2022 by CLT2014

[southslider]

A narrow Tyvola but wide Billy Graham lend themselves to BRT between Airport and South Park.

[JRCLT]

A narrow Tyvola but wide Billy Graham lend themselves to BRT between Airport and South Park.

That would be a great cost effective plan to connect the silver line and blue line also another transportation link with the airport.



Believe I made this several months ago…this idea could be extended to the airport.

Edit: I believe the map of “2030 transit corridor plan” in the corner was edited by someone else cannot remember who.

[tozmervo]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

May 18, 2022

Legacy Commission Renames Stonewall Street

Effective June 30, 2022, the LYNX Stonewall Station will be renamed Brooklyn Village Station and Stonewall Street will be renamed Brooklyn Village Avenue. The new street name honors the legacy of Brooklyn, a predominately black neighborhood located in Charlotte’s Second Ward.

[Madison Parkitect]

16 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

The new street name honors the legacy of Brooklyn, a predominately black neighborhood located in Charlotte’s Second Ward.

It does not. The new name honors a future development that may never happen and helps to erase the history of Brooklyn even further.

[CLTdev18]

^Out of curiosity, what would would be your preferred street/station name?

[TGIBridays]

5 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

It does not. The new name honors a future development that may never happen and helps to erase the history of Brooklyn even further.

Would it be better in your mind if it was just Brooklyn instead of Brooklyn Village?  Personally, I feel like most anything is better than having it named after a confederate general.

[Blue_Devil]

Brooklyn Ave would have been better… but this is better than Stonewall

[videtur quam contuor]

My regular comment about the Stonewall situation: 

note this map from 1935

http://maps.co.mecklenburg.nc.us/historicmaps/scans/charlotte_official_map_of_charlotte_1935.jpg

Also from here:

http://maps.co.mecklenburg.nc.us/historicmaps/

Some enlargement is necessary but the details are discernible.

One notes just north of West Morehead at the location of the current football stadium are three short streets named for Confederate generals: Hill, Vance and Jackson. Clearly the lost cause memory. Hill persists but the other two have disappeared over time. If one were to honor the saint and martyr of the South our genteel forebears would never use his nickname. Stonewall pre-existed or was conferred its name at a time that was not for the General. Impression and appearances are everything and evidence is discounted. I fight a lonely battle.

edit: these three streets may have had other names in the further past. This area was at the time of this map one of the African American residential areas. Extra point making for the street naming committee to choose this area for these men.

Edited May 19, 2022 by tarhoosier