Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[kermit]

These things may not be related but the BLE is really falling apart over the past three weeks.

1) the whole stretch of track between Sugar Creek and Old Concord (formerly the fastest section of the BLE) is now all a 20mph slow zone

2) the 1/2 mile north of Tom Bunter is also now a slow zone

3) A train just limped into UNCC main 10 minutes late and was taken out of service (prob not related to tracks)

4) car drivers fudgeing up the gates when waiting to left turn on N Tryon are getting more frequent, not less. (Generally two per BLE trip, each requires a complete stop at the grade crossing)

each of these things is just a shrug in isolation, but trip times are measurably longer now.

Edited December 7, 2022 by kermit

[southslider]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

4) drivers fudgeing up the gates when waiting to left turn on N Tryon are getting more frequent, not less. (Generally two per BLE trip, each requires a complete stop at the grade crossing)

Most LRT systems don't have control gates. Wonder if CATS could just remove them, especially those near stations, where trains already run slower.

[CLT704]

7 hours ago, kermit said:

1) the whole stretch of track between Sugar Creek and Old Concord (formerly the fastest section of the BLE) is now all a 20mph slow zone

2) the 1/2 mile north of Tom Bunter is also now a slow zone

I've noticed the slow down between 25th and Parkwood, drives me mad seeing cars go past faster - the only reason I see for a slow zone is some issue where the track splits and goes into the vehicle yard, as zone as you past that section of the track the train speeds up again for all of about 10 seconds before slowing down to stop at Parkwood. I really only ride the BLE between 36th St and Uptown, I am always pleasantly surprised at how fast the OG blue line goes in South End before it makes me mad that the BLE is a piece of sh*t. 

[Durhamite]

17 hours ago, CLT704 said:

I've noticed the slow down between 25th and Parkwood, drives me mad seeing cars go past faster - the only reason I see for a slow zone is some issue where the track splits and goes into the vehicle yard, as zone as you past that section of the track the train speeds up again for all of about 10 seconds before slowing down to stop at Parkwood. I really only ride the BLE between 36th St and Uptown, I am always pleasantly surprised at how fast the OG blue line goes in South End before it makes me mad that the BLE is a piece of sh*t. 

Simple solution, don’t use it. I don’t really get into the why ask why? I don’t question the airlines who are all over the place with schedules, etc.  At the end of the day, the Safety metric is priority….it should be to everyone so if it delays, etc bother you that much, don’t use it because ain’t no way in hell operations or maintenance gonna alter that because of longer trip times.

[15895]

7 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

Simple solution, don’t use it. I don’t really get into the why ask why? I don’t question the airlines who are all over the place with schedules, etc.  At the end of the day, the Safety metric is priority….it should be to everyone so if it delays, etc bother you that much, don’t use it because ain’t no way in hell operations or maintenance gonna alter that because of longer trip times.

No wonder you were a big fan of John Lewis. That was probably his philosophy and how he ran CATS.

 Now I understand why you post what you post regarding Mass Transit in Charlotte.  "Simple solution; don't use it" is the most incompetent philosophy I've ever heard. And telling it to people who are probably the most reliable choice customers that could exist; UP nerds.... 

Edited December 6, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[DownEast]

Dude. Lol. "Why ask why?" Your response reeks with the carelessness of a content citizen who drowned his curiosity in a vat of Bud Dry. (Bud Dry is a registered trademark of Anheuser-Busch, St. Louis MO.)

[JRCLT]

I think that comment was major disregard of the word PUBLIC in PUBLIC Transit. That philosophy can be applied to companies to pressure them into finding solutions for problems that the company is responsible for because they’re dependent on profits. Less use or buying of private services and goods hurts margins. Public Entities rarely care about profit as they’re tax funded, I’m not saying cut their funding although. Tax payers on the other hand have more sway in public affairs than they do over private entities. The solution to getting better transit is not to stop using it.

[Durhamite]

19 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

No wonder you were a big fan of John Lewis. That was probably his philosophy and how he ran CATS.

 Now I understand why you post what you post regarding Mass Transit in Charlotte.  "Simple solution; don't use it" is the most incompetent philosophy I've ever heard. And telling it to people who are probably the most reliable choice customers that could exist; UP nerds.... 

I’m a fan of common sense and not unrealistic expectations. UP Nerds or not. You can’t change frequency to compromise safety. The airlines aren’t gonna do it, why should CATs? All the hemming and hawing ain’t gonna change a thing from that standpoint, period. So, if it bothers a user that much, try other options.  I absolutely agree in improving and enhancing the user experience where it can be done. 

Until you are in the drivers seat (management), turn 3 at 180 miles an hour looks a lot different from the grandstands than behind the wheel. 

I do fascinate over these simple solutions on UP, not all are crazy, just many are idealistic and not practical. Absolutely nothing supersedes safety.

19 hours ago, JeanClt said:

I think that comment was major disregard of the word PUBLIC in PUBLIC Transit. That philosophy can be applied to companies to pressure them into finding solutions for problems that the company is responsible for because they’re dependent on profits. Less use or buying of private services and goods hurts margins. Public Entities rarely care about profit as they’re tax funded, I’m not saying cut their funding although. Tax payers on the other hand have more sway in public affairs than they do over private entities. The solution to getting better transit is not to stop using it.

Huh? Word salad.

19 hours ago, DownEast said:

Dude. Lol. "Why ask why?" Your response reeks with the carelessness of a content citizen who drowned his curiosity in a vat of Bud Dry. (Bud Dry is a registered trademark of Anheuser-Busch, St. Louis MO.)

So, you recommend increase speed and frequency without factoring in the safety component.  That’s white liquor talk.

[nicholas]

23 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

I’m a fan of common sense and not unrealistic expectations. UP Nerds or not. You can’t change frequency to compromise safety. The airlines aren’t gonna do it, why should CATs? All the hemming and hawing ain’t gonna change a thing from that standpoint, period. So, if it bothers a user that much, try other options.  I absolutely agree in improving and enhancing the user experience where it can be done. 

Until you are in the drivers seat (management), turn 3 at 180 miles an hour looks a lot different from the grandstands than behind the wheel. 

I do fascinate over these simple solutions on UP, not all are crazy, just many are idealistic and not practical. Absolutely nothing supersedes safety.

Huh? Word salad.

So, you recommend increase speed and frequency without factoring in the safety component.  That’s white liquor talk.

Exactly what aspect of safety is being compromised?  Light rails aren't going 180 mph.  If the speed limit on 85 randomly dropped to 25 for brief stretches for no apparent reason then drivers would rightly be pissed.

As for cars crashing into gates and whatnot, frankly some people are so stupid and oblivious that being crashed into by a light rail train might be the only way to get them to pay attention.

[JRCLT]

Simple solution, don’t use it. I don’t really get into the why ask why? I don’t question the airlines who are all over the place with schedules, etc.  At the end of the day, the Safety metric is priority….it should be to everyone so if it delays, etc bother you that much, don’t use it because ain’t no way in hell operations or maintenance gonna alter that because of longer trip times.

Huh? Word Salad.

[Reverie39]

The reason we "ask why" isn't to pointlessly complain, but to strive for solutions. I don't know what the problem or solution is any more than you do, but the city of Charlotte probably does, and seeing as it is run by public service officials, they will probably listen if their constituents are asking what is going on.

[southslider]

BLE was designed as a heavily separated LRT, so why is it traveling so slowly?  The original line has street interaction at Scaleybark. The original line has track splits for the VMF near New Bern. What makes the train slow down in sections likd Sugar Creek to Old Concord completely free of at-grade crossings?

[Durhamite]

14 hours ago, southslider said:

BLE was designed as a heavily separated LRT, so why is it traveling so slowly?  The original line has street interaction at Scaleybark. The original line has track splits for the VMF near New Bern. What makes the train slow down in sections likd Sugar Creek to Old Concord completely free of at-grade crossings?

Apologies guys, part damn jealous as to why the Triangle has been slow to adapt to keep up. But a frequent rider when there and experience in other places. You should expect better results. 

22 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

The reason we "ask why" isn't to pointlessly complain, but to strive for solutions. I don't know what the problem or solution is any more than you do, but the city of Charlotte probably does, and seeing as it is run by public service officials, they will probably listen if their constituents are asking what is going on.

I agree 

[Durhamite]

On 12/7/2022 at 12:18 PM, nicholas said:

Exactly what aspect of safety is being compromised?  Light rails aren't going 180 mph.  If the speed limit on 85 randomly dropped to 25 for brief stretches for no apparent reason then drivers would rightly be pissed.

As for cars crashing into gates and whatnot, frankly some people are so stupid and oblivious that being crashed into by a light rail train might be the only way to get them to pay attention.

I hope not, I just want LRT to be truly successful in Charlotte so we will get off our so-called Triangle better than though behinds and do something. Two different environments but it’s frustrating.

On 12/7/2022 at 12:58 PM, JeanClt said:

Huh? Word Salad.

Lol, you got me on that one…I was mouthing off after a few, let’s say, Mexicos best.

[JRCLT]

Lol, you got me on that one…I was mouthing off after a few, let’s say, Mexicos best.

Hahaha! It happens

[15895]

Light Rail avg. weekday ridership in the US that reports to APTA (Note this is light rail only. Some of these cities have heavy rail that doesn’t count such as Cleveland, Baltimore, L.A., San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston, & Denver) 

 

Charlotte will start to slide behind further for busiest *light rail* systems as the following  Light Rail lines currently U/C by Metropolitan area:

Boston - 4 Miles

L.A. - 15 Miles 

Minneapolis - 15 Miles 

Phoenix - 8 Miles 

Seattle - 35 Miles 

D.C. - 16 Miles 

I would Love… for Charlotte to have a system similar to Salt Lake (the red blue and green lines are light rail. Purple is commuter rail) Check out Google Maps to see their transit lines actual layout. I think Charlotte would *kill it* with ridership if it had a similar system. 

I’d *love* for Charlotte local leaders to create a solid rail network plan, start doing the studies & get everything shovel ready for when the stars align for a friendly State & Federal partnership to fund it. I want transit to SouthPark, Plaza Midwood, airport, Ballantyne, West Charlotte, Lake Norman, Concord Mills. I don’t want rail transit intended to spur development - there’s already places I want & need to go along with everybody else. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[DMann]

Some of those destinations do not want easy access!

[JRCLT]

Some of those destinations do not want easy access!

By transit? Because it’s not that hard to just drive to these places lol.

[Reverie39]

The 77 corridor in particular all the way up the Norman shores to Mooresville is incredibly dense (for suburbia) along a relatively narrow space and just screaming for transit. It continuously pains me that the Red Line is stalled 

[tozmervo]

On 12/10/2022 at 2:34 PM, AirNostrumMAD said:

Light Rail avg. weekday ridership in the US that reports to APTA (Note this is light rail only. Some of these cities have heavy rail that doesn’t count such as Cleveland, Baltimore, L.A., San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston, & Denver) 

The metric I like to see (kind of the equivalent to "per capita") is the Average Daily Boardings Per Mile column in the List of United States light rail systems by ridership - Wikipedia. To me that more indicative of how much bang for your buck your line gets. The data on the wikipedia table is pre-Covid now, but at the time CLT was #17 by that metric. I suspect we have fallen since our ridership return has been so lousy compared to other systems.

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

The metric I like to see (kind of the equivalent to "per capita") is the Average Daily Boardings Per Mile column in the List of United States light rail systems by ridership - Wikipedia. To me that more indicative of how much bang for your buck your line gets. The data on the wikipedia table is pre-Covid now, but at the time CLT was #17 by that metric. I suspect we have fallen since our ridership return has been so lousy compared to other systems.

I think our ridership return suffers from the Blue Line being viewed as a way to get to work or special one time events, but not a general form of mobility around town. COVID and work from home exposed that and the first thing even Blue Line adjacent Charlotte residents think for going to the grocery, running an errand, or going to a friend's house is to walk or drive their car... Not take the train. This contrasts to cities where transit supports multiple uses besides getting to employment.

[kermit]

18 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

I think our ridership return suffers from the Blue Line being viewed as a way to get to work or special one time events, but not a general form of mobility around town. COVID and work from home exposed that and the first thing even Blue Line adjacent Charlotte residents think for going to the grocery, running an errand, or going to a friend's house is to walk or drive their car... Not take the train. This contrasts to cities where transit supports multiple uses besides getting to employment.

This is consistent with my experience returning to my daily commute on the Blue Line following a pandemic disruption. The Blue Line is OK for commuting since I can schedule my trip to fit into the 20 minute frequency window most of the time (its still a PITA and creates a big risk of fudgeing up my day if I miss a train or one is cancelled). Unfortunately, 20 minute frequencies have prevented every one of my errand running or impulsive, "I'll stop in NoDa to get a drink or a taco on my way home" trips. I just can't risk adding an additional 20 minutes (or 40 in the case of a round trip) to a Blue Line trip so I end up driving to most of those activities. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by kermit

[kermit]

Train drama on my way to work this morning. They had to reboot my northbound 200 series train at 7th st, then again at Parkwood and then the train just stopped heading up the grade at Mathesion. Driver had to walk back to the controls at the rear of the lead car to “shut off propulsion?” (perhaps the rear traction motor in the car?) Finally made it to 36th when they took the train out of service. The driver had to run it down to Old Concord to get it turned. I guess the plus side of 20 minute frequencies is this did not seem to disrupt other trains.

Edit: my replacement train had to stop at every N Tryon grade crossing because car drivers didn’t know how the gates worked. Long trip to work today.

Edited January 18, 2023 by kermit

[kermit]

I thought I was pleasantly surprised when I walked up to E-W station this morning — the LED message board said ‘train to UNCC arriving in 5 minutes’. My reaction was enthusiastic, I thought  CATS had finally managed to use their existing resources to put countdown timers in stations like 90% of other transit systems in the country. 

Unfortunately all CATS has done is echo their sporadic voice announcements (which occur at 7,5,3 and sometimes 1 minute) on the LED board. We all know these announcements are only marginally useful (you gotta be there to hear them, sometimes traffic noise obscures them). An actual countdown timer is totally doable, provides a very different waiting psychology and can be done with current equipment. Do the right thing guys, make transit more rider friendly!

Edited January 26, 2023 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

21 hours ago, kermit said:

I thought I was pleasantly surprised when I walked up to E-W station this morning — the LED message board said ‘train to UNCC arriving in 5 minutes’. My reaction was enthusiastic, I thought  CATS had finally managed to use their existing resources to put countdown timers in stations like 90% of other transit systems in the country. 

Unfortunately all CATS has done is echo their sporadic voice announcements (which occur at 7,5,3 and sometimes 1 minute) on the LED board. We all know these announcements are only marginally useful (you gotta be there to hear them, sometimes traffic noise obscures them). An actual countdown timer is totally doable, provides a very different waiting psychology and can be done with current equipment. Do the right thing guys, make transit more rider friendly!

CATS is the real MVP