Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[SydneyCarton]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article271645352.html


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[15895]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article271645352.html


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I get so tired of the new “whataboutism” of Charlotte. Every single thing is “what about…” pointing to things people don’t have the background knowledge on.  Im going to need the people, politicians & boosters to be more visionary & less cherry picking random cities that have an issue and saying “well others too.”  No, not others too. 

The article uses DC Union Station as a justification on why Tim Moore is right Re: Investment in mass transit…

Just by Metro Rail alone, Union Stations ridership exceeds weekend Lynx Blue Line Ridership & I wouldn’t be surprised if weekday is surpassing now or pretty soon. Add on 7/day/week commuter rail service, the MARC Train & Metro for Union Station easily exceeds the entire Lynx daily ridership. 

Union Station is undergoing not only a *massive* expansion, transformation, bridging over tracks with tons of development that’ll integrate streetcar better, etc with funding etc secured… Soon with track work wrapping up,  will we be able to tie VRE (Virginia’s commuter train) & MARC (Marylands commuter train) to hopefully make a tiny version of our own RER and will make getting around the northern part of the urban core down to the southern part to Alexandria. 

 

The other thing the author of that opinion piece doesn’t realize is a massive overhaul of Union Station is well in advance. Amtrak is using Eminent Domain to take over Union because they have larger funding that the current operators.

Additionally Re Vacancies, A new General Manager of for Union Station was hired and he’s well known to be the man who transformed Tyson’s and oversaw Tyson’s Center Mall as CEO and there’s literally advanced plans in place for existing, former and new tenants, tons (separate from the billions for the overall facelift and expansion) of other money will be sunk into it for this revitalization as a major destination (it is but returning to a more mall like destination, entertainment venue, possible movie theatre meant for locals to enjoy than just a station). It’s not a vision. It’s in the works. They’ll soon be discussing more specifics and there are already negotiations for leases underway that can’t be discussed. 

I mention that because the article specifically calls out Union has 1/2 empty and a homeless safe haven etc. ok. During the height of Covid, when traffic completely died, yes. We’ve already been through that. NPS has already been clearing out the encampments that spiked during 2020 when people *temporarily* “fled” the largest &cities or during our lockdowns…New laws passed, etc. there’s only one area left really (Farragut Sq.) where there’s some tents but NPS already has issued a clearing warning, etc. They literally used bulldozers in some areas. 

Now why do I mention this? It’s not because I’m being defensive over DC, at all. It’s Just another example of a Charlottean justifying not doing something because they cherry picked an issue somewhere else they saw headlines about, so that’s that. But fast forward a few years, when we’ve focused on our future & it’s a national model & world class… It’s going to be “well we can’t do that because blah blah blah” - no, you were too busy reading headlines & sitting on the sidelines while we were spending $10+ Billion on our station that will serve as the 2nd busiest rail station and a hub for entertainment, retail, etc. When you make a strategic shift, sometimes it will be a transition period and we’re recovering (rapidly) from the pandemic. How much will the $3 Billion of  I-77 Extension from uptown go SC spur? How big of an asset for Charlotteans will that be? I don’t see anyone calling that a waste and seriously, it benefits South Carolinians more than Charlotteans if anything 

 

[15895]

Does anyone remember the torture of traffic at Fort Mill for a knights game or the old Hornets arena Vs. The new one?

A concert at PNC or Verizon or whatever out in university vs. the current Hornets arena? 

It’s/It was  so congested and so long getting out of the parking lots. All the roads clogged up near it. Since they moved uptown, in an urban location. That problem doesn’t really exist. It’s still relatively easy to get around. Infrastructure is so important to the quality of life when you have a mass dense area of people. 

[JRCLT]

I get so tired of the new “whataboutism” of Charlotte. Every single thing is “what about…” pointing to things people don’t have the background knowledge on.  Im going to need the people, politicians & boosters to be more visionary & less cherry picking random cities that have an issue and saying “well others too.”  No, not others too. 
The article uses DC Union Station as a justification on why Tim Moore is right Re: Investment in mass transit…
Just by Metro Rail alone, Union Stations ridership exceeds weekend Lynx Blue Line Ridership & I wouldn’t be surprised if weekday is surpassing now or pretty soon. Add on 7/day/week commuter rail service, the MARC Train & Metro for Union Station easily exceeds the entire Lynx daily ridership. 
Union Station is undergoing not only a *massive* expansion, transformation, bridging over tracks with tons of development that’ll integrate streetcar better, etc with funding etc secured… Soon with track work wrapping up,  will we be able to tie VRE (Virginia’s commuter train) & MARC (Marylands commuter train) to hopefully make a tiny version of our own RER and will make getting around the northern part of the urban core down to the southern part to Alexandria. 
http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2023_01/181C32F4-FB9B-4C10-AC5F-C01B6BC40353.png.a25c1cc80898956089be629379a72486.png
 
The other thing the author of that opinion piece doesn’t realize is a massive overhaul of Union Station is well in advance. Amtrak is using Eminent Domain to take over Union because they have larger funding that the current operators.
Additionally Re Vacancies, A new General Manager of for Union Station was hired and he’s well known to be the man who transformed Tyson’s and oversaw Tyson’s Center Mall as CEO and there’s literally advanced plans in place for existing, former and new tenants, tons (separate from the billions for the overall facelift and expansion) of other money will be sunk into it for this revitalization as a major destination (it is but returning to a more mall like destination, entertainment venue, possible movie theatre meant for locals to enjoy than just a station). It’s not a vision. It’s in the works. They’ll soon be discussing more specifics and there are already negotiations for leases underway that can’t be discussed. 
I mention that because the article specifically calls out Union has 1/2 empty and a homeless safe haven etc. ok. During the height of Covid, when traffic completely died, yes. We’ve already been through that. NPS has already been clearing out the encampments that spiked during 2020 when people *temporarily* “fled” the largest &cities or during our lockdowns…New laws passed, etc. there’s only one area left really (Farragut Sq.) where there’s some tents but NPS already has issued a clearing warning, etc. They literally used bulldozers in some areas. 
Now why do I mention this? It’s not because I’m being defensive over DC, at all. It’s Just another example of a Charlottean justifying not doing something because they cherry picked an issue somewhere else they saw headlines about, so that’s that. But fast forward a few years, when we’ve focused on our future & it’s a national model & world class… It’s going to be “well we can’t do that because blah blah blah” - no, you were too busy reading headlines & sitting on the sidelines while we were spending $10+ Billion on our station that will serve as the 2nd busiest rail station and a hub for entertainment, retail, etc. When you make a strategic shift, sometimes it will be a transition period and we’re recovering (rapidly) from the pandemic. How much will the $3 Billion of  I-77 Extension from uptown go SC spur? How big of an asset for Charlotteans will that be? I don’t see anyone calling that a waste and seriously, it benefits South Carolinians more than Charlotteans if anything 
 

I was thinking of what to say about this “article” and all I could come up with was uninformed gibberish… it makes it sounds like we really immersed ourselves (billions) into transit and conveys a sense that it didn’t work. When in reality compared to our road system investments, we’ve merely dipped our toes in investment. Transit alone is obviously not the only solution (a train/bus/bike/trail to nowhere is still a train/bus/bike/trail to nowhere) but with the right policy, zoning it can be super effective for travel and the health of residents. Couldn’t help but facepalm the entire time reading this, especially about the call for a study for transit voters in reference to those voters using transit. As if drivers who vote for transit don’t benefit from less traffic on the road??? People just can’t help but prove to me the fact that they will talk about anything and everything without knowing anything about the subject…hey but anything for clicks right? The title alone is just….

[DownEast]

Interesting choice of Union Station as their whipping boy. Really hard not to love that place. Yes, currently in full construction mode. Finished product will be amazing. Even at "half empty" the place has a ton of retail and it's always buzzing with people. Yes. There are some homeless. I worked there once a week last fall for a few months. I went to this crepe place every morning and ate right there in the court. I was approached most days, but after you wave the person off once, that's normally the end of it. People who use transit frequently are probably harder to shake than the fair lad who wrote this hit piece for TM.

[elrodvt]

When you don't have solutions to problems all that's left is articles like this. Same with global warming for example.

I'm going astray but I'd like to note that progressive, new, ideas to solve those problems (and others) have a really tough time in this state and most red or purple states. The disdain for experts, especially prevalent in the GOP presently, is inexplicable to me. If we can't get beyond that how will we ever solve serious problems? The experts who work on these issues need to get back to school and take a year of poly-sci and debate. Plus figure out how to get the necessary funds to fight corporate interests. Universities should take the lead and make "being an effective expert"  a mandatory part of the curriculum. Otherwise they'll continue to be drowned out by the hucksters like T. Moore. 

[Windsurfer]

11 hours ago, elrodvt said:

When you don't have solutions to problems all that's left is articles like this. Same with global warming for example.

I'm going astray but I'd like to note that progressive, new, ideas to solve those problems (and others) have a really tough time in this state and most red or purple states. The disdain for experts, especially prevalent in the GOP presently, is inexplicable to me. If we can't get beyond that how will we ever solve serious problems? The experts who work on these issues need to get back to school and take a year of poly-sci and debate. Plus figure out how to get the necessary funds to fight corporate interests. Universities should take the lead and make "being an effective expert"  a mandatory part of the curriculum. Otherwise they'll continue to be drowned out by the hucksters like T. Moore. 

Love your comment about sending back for "poly=sci and debate."

Meanwhile the humanities get snubbed (wife teaches at UNCC) for STEM.   The entire board of trustees is a reflection of the anti-liberal arts programs throughout the country. Debate and how to create and defend an argument is out the window for becoming another worker bee.

[kermit]

Butt to nut on the Blue Line this evening. 
I have never seen so many elites.

People left on platform at Stonewall. The 15 minute rush hour service starting next week ain’t gonna cut it.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by kermit

[JRCLT]

Butt to nut on the Blue Line this evening. 
I have never seen so many elites.
People left on platform at Stonewall. The 15 minute rush hour service starting next week ain’t gonna cut it.
 

Man…look at all those Elites. CATS needs to start dropping that time interval ASAP.

[Nathan2]

15 hours ago, kermit said:

Butt to nut on the Blue Line this evening. 
I have never seen so many elites.

People left on platform at Stonewall. The 15 minute rush hour service starting next week ain’t gonna cut it.

 

Truly wish they would just do all day 15 min frequencies or better. My wife's sister came to visit us and we arrived to the platform just as a train was leaving so we had to wait another 25 mins for another train. Lets just say she wasn't impressed and told us next time we should just uber. We aren't winning anyone over with these frequencies. Even 15mins is a long time to wait. 

[carolinaboy]

12 hours ago, JeanClt said:

Man…look at all those Elites. CATS needs to start dropping that time interval ASAP.

I'll show my old guy ignorance here, what is an Elite?

[kermit]

47 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

I'll show my old guy ignorance here, what is an Elite?

Just an invention of this twitter genius who is clearly gifted in the science of data sampling and analysis. 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by kermit

[kermit]

Wuz just about to send CATS some praise, the out of service train that just passed me did not show up in the tracker. Nice job CATS? Unfortunately the tracker is broken (no trains currently showing).

Come on CATS, help me help you…

Edited February 1, 2023 by kermit

[Reverie39]

What would it actually take to upgrade the Blue Line into 3 car trains? How many stations would need upgrading, like is this something that is actually doable?

I just spent some time on Google Earth looking up and down the BL corridor. It is honestly staggering how far the density stretches, mainly between Scaleybark and Sugar Creek stations, but also connecting pockets of density far outside that in the university area and hopefully one day Ballantyne as well. I honestly believe at this point if the BL didn't exist, one could make a reasonable proposal for even heavy rail transit, or like a light metro with 4 cars or something. Since BL exists though, and given how crowded the trains are and how much this corridor will continue to grow, feels to me like we should at least be striving to add a car to these trains. Really wish the line was built with 3 car capabilities from the start.

[tozmervo]

16 minutes ago, Reverie39 said:

What would it actually take to upgrade the Blue Line into 3 car trains? How many stations would need upgrading, like is this something that is actually doable?

I just spent some time on Google Earth looking up and down the BL corridor. It is honestly staggering how far the density stretches, mainly between Scaleybark and Sugar Creek stations, but also connecting pockets of density far outside that in the university area and hopefully one day Ballantyne as well. I honestly believe at this point if the BL didn't exist, one could make a reasonable proposal for even heavy rail transit, or like a light metro with 4 cars or something. Since BL exists though, and given how crowded the trains are and how much this corridor will continue to grow, feels to me like we should at least be striving to add a car to these trains. Really wish the line was built with 3 car capabilities from the start.

IIRC, only like 4 of the original BL stations have been lengthened. Stonewall, 485, Woodlawn, and maybe one other? The electrical infrastructure was upgraded to handle 3-cars as well. 

Edit: Also 7th street, which was originally the end of the line. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by tozmervo

[kermit]

23 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

What would it actually take to upgrade the Blue Line into 3 car trains? How many stations would need upgrading, like is this something that is actually doable?

1) extend platforms at 11ish stations

2) purchase more vehicles

It’s totally doable, 4ish platforms have already been extended and electrical upgrades are complete.

That said, I really don’t understand why so many people are interested in 3 car trains. It would be cheaper and easier to increase frequencies by a couple more trains an hour to get a larger capacity increase and that would attract additional riders as well. Longer trains are just an excuse to keep frequencies low.

Pre-pandemic CATS was running two car trains every 7.5 minutes at peak (16 cars per hour in each direction). If we ran 3 car trains every 15 minutes that would be 12 cars per hour in each direction, but riders would have double the wait times of our pre-pandemic service.  I really think we are better off (e.g. higher ridership and happier riders) with two car trains at high frequency.

Edited February 3, 2023 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

exactly ^^ let's not forget the promised frequency: 7 minutes.

[XRZ.ME]

long twitter thread from Rail Magazine

Edited February 3, 2023 by XRZ.ME

[kermit]

1 hour ago, XRZ.ME said:

...long twitter thread from Rail Magazine

and he was impressed with our station area land use.

Edited February 3, 2023 by kermit

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

and he was impressed with our station area land use.

I quote him, as he rolled out of 36th street station: "This would be the kind of place I'd want to live."

[elrodvt]

Exactly!

I go way out of my way to take transit. But when my 9 yo grandkids say let's just drive so we don't have to leave the game 10 minutes early I quit! (Yes they're precocious and listen to gpas grumbling too carefully).

And how fricking stupid is it they can't run specials when there are events? 

9 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

exactly ^^ let's not forget the promised frequency: 7 minutes.

 

[Reverie39]

On 2/2/2023 at 4:11 PM, kermit said:

1) extend platforms at 11ish stations

2) purchase more vehicles

It’s totally doable, 4ish platforms have already been extended and electrical upgrades are complete.

That said, I really don’t understand why so many people are interested in 3 car trains. It would be cheaper and easier to increase frequencies by a couple more trains an hour to get a larger capacity increase and that would attract additional riders as well. Longer trains are just an excuse to keep frequencies low.

Pre-pandemic CATS was running two car trains every 7.5 minutes at peak (16 cars per hour in each direction). If we ran 3 car trains every 15 minutes that would be 12 cars per hour in each direction, but riders would have double the wait times of our pre-pandemic service.  I really think we are better off (e.g. higher ridership and happier riders) with two car trains at high frequency.

Oh I very much agree. The top priority is getting frequencies back up - a solution to a currently existing problem that is basically immediately fixable.

I think of the 3 car train thing as more of a long-term solution to a long-term problem, which is the fact that the Blue Line corridor will continue to grow and densify at astounding rates for likely decades. And the (hopeful) possibility that Charlotte's culture gravitates more and more towards transit with time, especially for all the people living in the corridor. That could theoretically mean a LOT of ridership at some point, and I'd hate for the city to be caught lagging behind when 2 car trains AT high frequencies aren't even enough. 

[JRCLT]

Oh I very much agree. The top priority is getting frequencies back up - a solution to a currently existing problem that is basically immediately fixable.
I think of the 3 car train thing as more of a long-term solution to a long-term problem, which is the fact that the Blue Line corridor will continue to grow and densify at astounding rates for likely decades. And the (hopeful) possibility that Charlotte's culture gravitates more and more towards transit with time, especially for all the people living in the corridor. That could theoretically mean a LOT of ridership at some point, and I'd hate for the city to be caught lagging behind when 2 car trains AT high frequencies aren't even enough. 

If the line was all 3-car ready now it would be a good solution to accommodate more people with less conductors given their hiring issues. Frequency would reign the best solution though. The Lesser the wait the greater the convenience.

[southslider]

^3-car platforms and trains would also be the appropriate project right now to take advantage of increased federal funds without increasing local funds

[Durhamite]

Ok, serious question, don’t y’all think if they were capable, they would increase frequency?  This is clearly a current state of things that isn’t just a CATs issue…I mean  CATs is isn’t on an island when everyone else is  trying to balance staff, ridership, maintenance etc.  what do y’all know that they don’t?  
 

Are some of y’all in weekly, daily mtgs with key decision makers? Seriously, I’m in the energy biz, some of the crap people want is just unrealistic ..they have no idea how fragile the grid really is until something happens like this past holiday season.
 

 I think that’s why they are extremely cautious, the unintended consequences of ramping up too quickly. it could make things worse, real fast and watch the beotching then. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Durhamite