Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[dubone]

Welcome to Urban Planet, CltFlyer. This thread is only about the Lynx Blue line that opened, and has a planned extension to the University area. You can discuss and ask questions about the other lines in the 2030 Transit Plan thread here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=43044

or the North Line (Lynx Purple Line) to the Mooresville area here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5058

From reading through those threads you will see some of the history that lead to those decisions and compromises you refer to.

[monsoon]

Well we knew it was going to happen eventually. The first LYNX/Automobile collision.....

It's amazing there has been no media follow up on this accident. No names, no charges, no details. Wonder why the silence.

[Charlotte_native]

It's amazing there has been no media follow up on this accident. No names, no charges, no details. Wonder why the silence.

Perhaps it isn't really considered much of a story. An accident happened, they happen all the time, this just happened to be the new LYNX line -- but it is still just an accident.

[monsoon]

Gee, I would think that a car crash that disables Charlotte's first light rail line, injures the train driver and damages a vehicle might deserve a little more coverage than Dale Earnheart's lucky penny and Starbucks being closed for 3 hours. Where are the questions on what can be done if anything to prevent this in the future? There are a lot of unanswered important questions here yet we get silence.

[monsoon]

Some more observations:

I got a chance to purchase a round trip ticket today. It's nice because it means 1 less trip to the TVMS which are incredibly slow. I purchased 3 tickets and it took forever to print them and make change.

While on the train the emergency brakes engaged which resulted in a breathtaking stop. There was some kind of grinding noise as if the wheels on the train had locked. The driver came on an offered an apology and explained that was an emergency stop, but did not give a reason. This was near the Scaleybark station.

I notice on some placards at the stations now that CATS says lead times are 20 minutes on weekday evenings and 30 minutes on weekends. This is way way too infrequent. I am curious why CATS keeps reducing the frequency of the trains.

[uptownliving]

I notice on some placards at the stations now that CATS says lead times are 20 minutes on weekday evenings and 30 minutes on weekends. This is way way too infrequent. I am curious why CATS keeps reducing the frequency of the trains.

Since the begining the schedule has been to run them at 20 min intervals after 7pm on the weekdays. On the weekends they run them at 20 min intervals all day and then 30 min intervals after 10:30pm. Nothing has changed...the frequency has not been reduced.

Running these trains is not cheap and CATS doesn't have an endless bucket of money to run the trains at 7 min intervals at all times of the day. Would it be nice if they did? Sure.

With time and increase ridership I think it would make since to increase the frequency. There is a bit of the chicken and egg to this...if you increase frequency that could increase ridership...but some people may avoid the train at the current frequencies becasue it doesn't seem fast enough.

I have riden the trains in the evenings on the weekdays and I dont think the ridership is there yet to increase the frequency except on game nights. And on the weekends until they get to the point where a number of the trains are running at near full capacity then they won't be adding any frequencies except for special events.

[uptownliving]

Gee, I would think that a car crash that disables Charlotte's first light rail line, injures the train driver and damages a vehicle might deserve a little more coverage than Dale Earnheart's lucky penny and Starbucks being closed for 3 hours. Where are the questions on what can be done if anything to prevent this in the future? There are a lot of unanswered important questions here yet we get silence.

I think you are expecting too much out of our local media. We have endless threads on here detailing how incompetant they are. So to except an in depth investigation on something that really matters in this town is setting the bar too high for them.

The Police report on this collision is available for free to anyone who is willing to take the time to go to Police HQ and ask for it.

As far as an investigation of the collision and how something like this can be prevented in the future I beleive the NTSB or FRA or FTA or someone like that will require an investigation and a full report on the incident...but I don't expect for something like that to be complete for a couple months....but you might have to digg to find it.

[Raintree21]

Running these trains is not cheap and CATS doesn't have an endless bucket of money to run the trains at 7 min intervals at all times of the day. Would it be nice if they did? Sure.

With time and increase ridership I think it would make since to increase the frequency.

I know it's like comparing apples to oranges, but how often to other systems like NYC run their routes? I looked at the A route that cuts down the middle of Manhattan. They have a fairly complicated schedule that runs 24/7 but they have 20 minute intervals during their off peak hours and at times during the weekends and during peak hours, the A runs every 6-9 minutes. While there aren't 30 minute waits (at least not on that route, sounds like other places have similar schedules to Lynx.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Raintree21

[monsoon]

I looked at the A route that cuts down the middle of Manhattan. They have a fairly complicated schedule that runs 24/7 but they have 20 minute intervals during their off peak hours and at times during the weekends and during peak hours, the A runs every 6-9 minutes. While there aren't 30 minute waits (at least not on that route, sounds like other places have similar schedules to Lynx.

I hope you realize there are other trains that share the tracks with the A train as they have multiple lines on their tracks (4 track system lets them do this) so for the most part the wait times are not nearly this long.

I would contend again that CATS is not going to get ridership by NOT running trains. 30 minute headways is simply too long for an effective transit system unless your only goal is to serve commuters and bus transfers.

I checked Charlotte's peer city that has built a LRT in the last few years, Minneapolis, and they run the trains much more frequently on the weekends. 7 minutes on Saturday, and 10 minutes on Sunday.

[RandyH]

Hello all,

I wanted to share with you my experience with LYNX on Saturday. We are from the Winston-Salem area and came down to Charlotte with the kids...

Saturday about 4 p.m. we went to the I-485/South Blvd. station. I noticed the parking deck was PACKED. On the platform only 1 of the ticket machines worked and there was a big line of about 10 people in front of me. A CATS worker was there helping people figure out the machine. A guy in front of me was getting really nervous as he feared he might miss the train. He did. He was upset. He eventually had to wait about 35-40 minutes for the next train to leave. He told his wife, "We could have drove uptown and already been there." Apparently he was going to an RV show of some kind. He said they're going to miss the whole thing. I kind of felt bad for him as the train drove off and he was still waiting in line to get a ticket.

Finally, I get to the machine. Now, I've bought tickets in Atlanta (MARTA) and Washington (METRO) and the Las Vegas monorail with no trouble at all and I have to say the ticket machine was kind of confusing! It was slow too. After I was paid up and all done, it took about 25 seconds for the tickets to print off.

The train itself? Super cool! I loved it. The kids thought it was the coolest thing in the universe. I saw a CATS employee counting riders. We got off at the East/West Blvd. station and had an outstanding dinner at Pikes Old Fashioned Soda Shop. Great place!

Later, we got back on and went all the way downtown. The train was absolutely packed! We were like sardines in a can. This older couple got on at the next stop: she was mentally retarded and in a wheel chair and her husband didn't smell so good. My wife got stuck next to them and the woman (carrying a bag of stuffed animals and dolls) kept wanting to touch my kids. The black lady beside me was making soulful stares at my wife who nodded right back at her with a smile. I guy with a bike was right behind me and by the time I got off downtown there was black all over my legs. The kids loved downtown with the buildings and all. We could see thousands of people checking in at the Bobcat Arena for the game. Exciting place.

The trip back to I-485/South Blvd. was a lot lighter but every seat was just about full. The kids loved it and this kid (me) loved it too. I love Charlotte. I love LYNX.

Two suggestions: 1) new ticket machines and 2) trains need to come more often on weekends. I noticed once we got back to I-485/SB that the northbound train was overflowing. The people were stuffed in there pretty tight!

[nowensone]

Agreed on the need for more frequent runs (speaking personally on the weekend runs), I wonder if they are exceeding their forecasted operational costs and finding places to cut down?

[tozmervo]

Agreed on the need for more frequent runs (speaking personally on the weekend runs), I wonder if they are exceeding their forecasted operational costs and finding places to cut down?

They haven't cut down the schedule at all, they are following the timetables set before they had daily operational costs. I'm sure they based their weekend schedule on precedents set in other cities. Hopefully they will see a weekend demand in Charlotte that the other cities weren't experiencing and increase service.

[monsoon]

^What cities?

[tozmervo]

^What cities?

I don't know what cities they may or may not have looked at for scheduling precedent. But these things don't just formulate in a vacuum - be it rail/station design or operational procedures. Through various press peices over the past few months, I've seen Denver, Salt Lake City, and Houston mentioned, among others. My guess would be that they found a line or lines of simliar density and development and used those as templates. From those basic templates, you make changes as necessary based on local conditions and expectations.

Is the 20 minute time too long on weekends? Yes, I think so. CATS has already made timetable changes that appear to be based on user feedback, and I trust they will increase frequency if user feedback and/or ridership numbers lead them to that conclusion.

[SentioVenia]

"Tyvola in the Mist"

[monsoon]

I don't know ..... Denver, Salt Lake City, and Houston mentioned, among others. My guess would be that they found a line or lines of simliar density and development and used those as templates. From those basic templates, you make changes as necessary based on local conditions and expectations. .....

Weekend Headways Other Light Rail Systems

• Minneapolis, Sat - 7 min, Sun - 10 min
  
• Houston, Sat - 12 min, Sun - 12 min
  
• Denver, Sat & Sun, some stations have service every 3-4 minutes, max 20
  
• Salt Lake City, Sat - 15 min, Sun - 20 min
  

Compare those places to Charlotte which is 30 minutes. Also most of those cities offer either reduced or free fares within their downtown zones. I simply don't understand why CLT would spend $1/2 billion on a LRT yet runs it as infrequently as they do on the weekend and evenings.

[uptownliving]

Well the trains don't operate on 30 min headways on the weekends...it is a 20 min headway.

On average the weekend trains operate at 20% capacity (each train averages about 100 passengers). Obviously some trains are operating at near capacity and others have few passengers.

The next Schedule change will be coming up in August and by then CATS should have all the Automatic Passenger Counters installed on all the LYNX vehicles so they should have better ridership statistics. I suspect that at that time they could go to a 15 min headway for all or a portion of the 10am-10pm time frame on the weekends.

[monsoon]

Well the trains don't operate on 30 min headways on the weekends...it is a 20 min headway.....

The signs in some of the stations say 30 minutes on weekends. I know this has been the experience of myself and others that have posted in this topic. i.e. it's longer than 20 minutes. But even at 20 it falls short of what I posted above for other cities.

[uptownliving]

The only time I have riden the LYNX and it wasn't on the 20 min headway on the weekends was when they were doing construction on the line. Even then it was running about 5 minutes behind schedule.

If CATS is posting signs that say 30 min headways on the weekends then someone needs to send a complaint letter to have them taken down because the trains arn't supposed to be running on 30 minute headways except late at night or very early in the morning when the line is being phased into and out of service.

[Andyc545]

I hadn't seen this posted on here for the NE Line extension, but this is CATs NE Line Quarterly article/panthlet/whatever you call it.

http://www.charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres/ey2jz...ETransWtr08.pdf

Not a whole lot of new information, but a nice summary and recap of where things are at so far.

[monsoon]

^I notice on that pamphlet they are still showing the option to put a station at Sugar Creek near the Asian Mall. I think it is imperative they take this option.

[CharlotteUrbanPioneer]

^I notice on that pamphlet they are still showing the option to put a station at Sugar Creek near the Asian Mall. I think it is imperative they take this option.

This mall is a critical site in this area, which needs revitalization. CATS apparently is not influenced by this concern in its planning. However, I think that the community is doing itself a disservice to not focus on how CATS can become a catalyst rather than simply responding to current needs. We've got a lot of tax money at stake here and it seems like the haves are getting more out of CATS than the have-nots, but the later is putting more in becomes all sales taxes are regressive.

[dubone]

That option will only be selected if the city takes on the extra cost with TIF or economic development money. There is a station at Sugar Creek for both options, and that will at least help Asian Mall evolve, but Tryon in that area would not be as directly affected.

I'm confused as to pushing for that option, which takes it off a dedicated corridor much sooner, causing it to run in the median for a few extra miles in a section that has a lot of driveway access and turns that drivers might make.

[monsoon]

^That option would be a great plan for a revival of a neighborhood that was quite nice in the 1970s. I hope they take it. I've traced the route of the train if they don't take that option and it will bypass a lot of the areas where pedestrians might congregate.

[southslider]

I wonder if it will ultimately just come down to getting over to Tryon, not the economic development opportunities or even the cost of running more along Tryon or the rail corridor. In other words, which route actually costs less to get between the railroad and Tryon, where there is no public or railroad right-of-way?