Jump to content

Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line


dubone

Recommended Posts

:yahoo:

How many vehicles are needed so that all sets could have two cars instead of alternating them like they are doing now?

I think that, during rush hour, they have 15 cars in operation and one in the yard. That would mean there are 5 pairs and 5 singles. So with four new cars and if they pulled their standby out of the yard, they could run doubles every 7.5 minutes.

This is based on my assumptions and observations at rush hour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


This is in part to some other road improvements that connects UNCC and Hospital. I was very happy when seeing a library located on the light rail so I thought it was worth posting.

This is excellent news, very forward-thinking to put public meeting places along the line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to veer off-topic, but I wonder if this is to replace the existing library branch next to CMC-University?

Yes- this will be an upgrade and replacement to the library branch that is on Harris Blvd across from Grubb's development next to CMC. It's not a huge move, for those not familiar with the area, but it would place this in a soon to be very walkable area that is feet from the proposed University City station. The upgrades that are coming either before or with the LYNX line construction includes an access road from the UNCC campus Research Institute to the CMC-University hospital, and also includes a connection of JW Clay Blvd where it currently runs into Tryon. This is on the University City master plan on updated zoning plans.

Edited by Andyc545
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is excellent news, very forward-thinking to put public meeting places along the line.

Its worth mentioning that the Scaleybark Library is just steps away from the station of the same name. I'd be interested to know how its been affected by the LRT and if it played a role in this decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will there be any need for upgrades for added storage space at the LYNX facility with the addition of the 4 trains? I'd be curious the capacity this can endure. Also, will this be the same storage facility that the NE Line will utilize? Questions just crossed my mind from Neo's question.

The LYNX maintenance facility can accommondate up to 40 to 45 LRVs. So I'm assuming the additional 4 LRVs are part of the option that CATS holds from Siemens that allows an additional 25 LRVs, but Hampton Roads Transit will be using CATS's option to get 9 LRVs for their own light rail system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why did we just give up that option to Hampton Roads when our extension was reprioritized to come so soon? It would seem that was a multi-million dollar gift to Hampton Roads at a time when we shouldn't really be generous.

I could understand it if the extension was still a decade or more away as it was originally, but wasn't it changed to a 5 year plan before we gave up the cars to Hampton Roads?

Was the option going to expire anyway, and this way others can benefit from something that would otherwise go to waste?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes the option to purchase 25 LRT Siemens vehicles at 2005 prices expires in a couple weeks (the option was already extended by a month or so at CATS request). 9 of those vehicles are going to Hampton Roads and 4 will be going to CATS.

CATS could have taken the risk to go ahead and purchase all the vehicles necesary for the LYNX Blue Line extention, but I guess it is too early in the process for them to see that as an acceptable risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why did we just give up that option to Hampton Roads when our extension was reprioritized to come so soon? It would seem that was a multi-million dollar gift to Hampton Roads at a time when we shouldn't really be generous.

I could understand it if the extension was still a decade or more away as it was originally, but wasn't it changed to a 5 year plan before we gave up the cars to Hampton Roads?......

CATS does not have a FFGA to build the NE LRT and most likely they won't get approval for several more years. (they still have 2 years of engineering work to do to come up with a cost) Given that it will take 2-3 years to build the line we are talking about not needed those cars for 5 years at the earliest and most likely longer. (if ever) It does not seem prudent or a good use of money to buy so many cars for a need so far off in the future. Once they purchase one of these vehicles there is an ongoing carrying cost even if they are not used and this isn't a small number. Because of that, a transit agency does not want a bunch of rolling stock that is not generating revenue.

I think exercising the option to make up for shortfalls in the current service is OK and probably a good idea. I also think that it is a good gesture to give the remaining vehicles to Hampton Roads, because the more systems that use this particular technology, the better for our system in the long run. It gives other future opportunities for us to combine future orders with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand now. I didn't realize the expiration was imminent. Given that, it makes sense that we could not go out on the limb and buy the cars now.

I am glad they are at least buying the remainder, as it will help expand the capacity of the existing line, as well as help support the future extension under consideration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope the Feds look at what is happing to public transportation and fund more money for them. Charlotte in the future may have more riders than they ever dream, if gas keeps going up. I am glade to see the Lynx rider ship has been over what was expected. I would love to the line out to UNCC as quick as possible.

Edited by RiverwoodCLT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In order to cut costs, the existing south blue line stations were designed to handle 2 cars, but were originally planned to handle 3 cars. I imagine to make the northeast blue line more palatible to the feds, those stations will also be designed for 2 cars. I would hope if that is the case, the design of the stations will be such that major re-engineering won't be needed to expand them in the future to 3 car capacity. Given the success in ridership for the south line, there are times now when 3 car trains would make sense. I understand the carrying costs mentioned above, but in the event of any accident which would put 2 cars out of service (which the Observer mentioned a couple of weeks ago about an accident being "overdue" even now) perhaps we should exercise the option to keep 2 more cars, which rather than sitting idle, could also be used to increase capacity now on the single car trains. Does anyone know if the proposed northeast line would in fact have 2 car maximum capacity at the stations?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know if the proposed northeast line would in fact have 2 car maximum capacity at the stations?

They haven't even decided on the exact route yet, so I would think that station capacity hasn't even been seriously thought about yet- at least not publicly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^That will be determined if the NE line is integrated with the south and it is operated as one lone continuous route. Then the NE line will be limited to two trains. If on the other hand the NE line runs independently from the south line, that is to make the trip from Pineville to UNCC you have to get off and reboard, then the NE line can be a 3 carriage system.

I am not sure they have stated in detail how this is to work, but I would guess that since it is often referred to as the "Blue line extension", then they are planning on the first option which says only 2 car trains will be operating on it. If this is the case, I think they ought to revisit the idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In public meetings in the past, they have described this always as something where you can take a train all the way through. If there is a differential in ridership on the northeast and south corridors, I suppose it is possible for them to run some trains only to uptown and then turn back, just as they end some trains now at New Bern randomly. But I expect that they are making their plans consistent with running a single train from the Pineville area to the UNCC area.

The whole subject of the 3 car trains versus 2 car trains is that you can save the cost of a driver, while also trading off on the benefit of frequency. However, it is also possible for the system to have a frequency so high that the only way to reasonably add capacity is to switch to the 3-car sets. We have a very long way to go in 2-car sets before our frequency is so high that we need 3 car sets. I think it is possible that if our ridership is high enough to be at this point, then the money will not be hard to come by. Given our ridership exceeds projections already, I think it is almost certain we will hit that point before the 2025 horizon year, but certainly not for another decade. It seems to me that it would be a good idea to make stations in the NE long enough for 3 cars, just as they did many stations in the South corridor. Then, when they are ready for 3-car sets on the whole Blue line, they can will only need to spend the money on the shortened stations in the South.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was the point of my question.

Do you feel that to cut the initial capital costs, the (proposed) northeast line's stations would only be built for 2 car capacity. It makes all the sense in the world to build them for 3 car capacity, I just wonder if we will, and would it make any difference to the feds who may be funding a portion of the line?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For comparison, St. Louis always runs 2-car trains, since the tunnels on the oldest section of the line limited the system to 200' platforms. Yet with 40-some miles of LRT, and 2 overlapping lines, they now have 5-minute peak frequency where the lines overlap (10 minutes on branches), but could do 3.5-minute headways (7 minutes on branches), if not for cuts in state subsidies for operations. Similar to Charlotte, St. Louis has a fully gate-controlled, exclusive-ROW-running system operating at top speeds (no street-running segments like most other LRT systems). If St. Louis can handle 80,000 daily riders with 5-minute headways, I think Charlotte has a ways to go before added frequency would be so prohibitive that 3-car trains would absolutely be necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..... If St. Louis can handle 80,000 daily riders with 5-minute headways, ....
Actually I believe the effective limit of the Charlotte system is about 36K riders/day. I don't think you can take another system and conclude that a different one can handle the same number of people. CATS has imposed a pretty severe speed limit for downtown and Dilworth for safety reasons which limits the entire system. The only way to make significant increases in service beyond this is to add more vehicles which will eventually mean 3 car sets. It's not going to happen on the South LRT for quite some time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 18K figure was the estimated avg daily ridership for 2025. We are currently avg 14k +

If I remember correctly on one of the ACC days the LYNX set a daily ridership record of 40,000 people. So I would think that the current line could probably handle more people...if they wanted to ride during non peak times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36k sounds bad if they ran the same trains they do now, as it would be mean a bit of sardine action. But really, that is nearly tripling the ridership, which I think is fair to expect as the corridor densifies over the next two decades. The growth, however, that comes with transit oriented development is spread out a bit more than commuting hours.

Metro's point is a good one, that there is an upper limit to capacity given basics of speed and distance. I do think we have a ways to go before we come close, but I'm more technical people are able to crunch the numbers to show a theoretical upper limit. Absolutely, though, as we get closer to our limitations, there will be ample justification for the incremental project to expand the stations. It is different than worrying about post-2025 capacity-expansion limitations when you are overbudget, and you can save that station expense by simply playing around with frequency.

It isn't rocket science to expand those platforms. I'm pretty sure the uptown platforms are long enough for 3 cars now, but I might be wrong on that. But outside of downtown, all the stations are on solid ground except Tyvola and Archdale, so it is just a matter of pouring some concrete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't the opening day like 60,000 ridership? Now that was like a can of sardines, it was an experience to remember. I hope our increasingly growing LYNX ridership will help the ridership projections for the Northeast line.

A little off topic, but I can't help to laugh at this clip of Tokoyo's subway with their "people pushers".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axwMxUBL_ws&NR=1

Edited by Shawn&Zae
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.