Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[DjStedali]

^It's not possible to offer express service on this system without completely disrupting service on the rest of the line.

If they are going to stack any trains at all it is going to disrupt service regardless. You have your two doubles at whichever station you need and then just let them coast all the way down to I-485. The one that reaches the end first unloads and immediately jets back down the line to its normal service. The other waits at the final station and begins its normal routine after its 5 minute wait or whatever the time limit may be at that time. You therefore knocked out 4 cabs worth of I-485 traffic in one shot which can be quite a big chunk if the cram in like they did during Speed Street. I'm sure they'll get better at the process especially now they'll have the Panthers games more frequently than they do major events in Uptown.

[tozmervo]

If they are going to stack any trains at all it is going to disrupt service regardless.

I'm not sure how you mean. They stack trains on inactive track and insert them between regularly scheduled trains. On Saturday, for example, trains leave regularly from 7th at 9:10, 9:30, and 9:50. The extra trains they have sitting behind 8th street leave at 9:20 and 9:40.

[monsoon]

Indeed. And there isn't a way for a train to travel all the way to I-485 without stopping because there are other trains on the track. Furthermore, because of the design of the system there is a 15mph speed limit anywhere there are pedestrians which includes all stations. Trains can't go through a station at full speed for safety reasons. Hence it won't save much time anyway. This system was not built for express service.

[ChiefJoJo]

We are talking about 1 LRT line serving one part of the city and (IIRC) 16 total LRVs serving the entire line. Even if you could line all the LRVs up (disrupting regular service completely) right after an event, that still wouldn't adequately serve the peak demand caused by a large Uptown event. Actually, it isn't really fair to expect that of a fledgling, 8-month old service (Lynx).

Bottom line, it will take many more LRT train sets and more rapid transit lines to different areas of the city before the system will be able to deal with large events very effectively. Right now and for the forseeable future, demand is and will outstrip the system's peak capacity, and there are simply not enough train sets or enough lines to manage something of the magnitude of a Panthers game or Speed Street with tens of thousands of people.

[Spartan]

Of course, if people used the bus system to get to the events, the demand would be more manageable- assuming the bus system were appropriately coordinated with the events too.

[Andyc545]

Of course, if people used the bus system to get to the events, the demand would be more manageable- assuming the bus system were appropriately coordinated with the events too.

I actually think CATS has done a good job with incorporating the bus system to line up with LYNX and used as feeders. Maybe they should consider having CATs buses staged at Panthers stadium on game days that bring people to and from the North, East, and West, maybe including Express buses to the Park-and-Rides to help all of these people commute to the games. Leave LYNX the way it is to serve the South. I think a lot of people from these areas of the Charlotte Metro currently drive out of the way to park along the LYNX line to take the train in to avoid paying for parking. I'd rather see CATs advertise its bus system and treat the cooridors in the remaining N, E, and W the same as LYNX, just busses instead of a train until rail transit is built out. This will transport guests to the game and still allow them to avoid paying for parking while ditching the car for its wide range of benefits. LYNX should be more focused on servings its designated cooridor, although this won't completely happen (because of the joys for kids to ride and the WOW factor it has) until the rest of the 2030 Plan is built out. It's been said many times, but it just can't all be built soon enough.

[MZT]

I suspect people that are confused by the downtown diagonal streets or who generally don't like traffic jams are very likely to "drive out of their way" to find a LYNX park'n'ride. There are probably a great number of folks using it on event nights that do not live in south Charlotte.

[Charlotte_native]

After Panther games the traffic jams to get back out of the city have typically been horrendous. I knew a handful of people who drove out of their way at the end of the season last year to use LYNX and avoid those jams. Before I moved uptown it would take us, sometimes, an hour or more to get from our parking space to our home in Dilworth if everyone stayed to the end of the game.

[Andyc545]

Obviously they drive out the way because it's their best means of getting into the city, cheaply, and without the congestion. Once the whole 2030 system is built out, it will serve all general areas of the metro and not force people to drive to the south, but instead just commute to their nearest line. What I was thinking is since the rail has not been completed on the remaining corridors, during large events such as Panthers games run buses that stage (similarly to the LYNX) to accommodate Panthers fans (or whatever the event is) to park-and-ride lots that are currently in place for express buses or possibly newly designated areas (depending on demand) to accommodate riders while not having to waste gas, money, and air quality to get to a South line station (which begins to defeat the features of having light rail all together). They could advertise with LYNX as a special service to attendees, and ultimately gain bus patrons that may be skeptical to utilize the system right now. I'm guilty of utilizing the south line when living in the North to get to various locations in S. End and uptown, but I guess I was just thinking more for the large events that only occur every so often (Speed Street, Panthers games, March Madness).

[Sabaidee]

^^^

CATS is doing something similar everytime there is a race at Lowe's. They provide CATS's express buses which picks up passengers at Carolina Place and drive all the way to Lowe's.

[InitialD]

^^^

CATS is doing something similar everytime there is a race at Lowe's. They provide CATS's express buses which picks up passengers at Carolina Place and drive all the way to Lowe's.

It will be only a short hop to shuttle people from the terminus of the NE blue line to LMS, and perhaps Verizon Wireless Amphitheater. Also today, I was thinking about how ridership of the NE line will flux between college being in session or not at UNCC. Also, how the NE line could see some of the heaviest traffic in the evenings versus normal rush hour.

[Andyc545]

It will be only a short hop to shuttle people from the terminus of the NE blue line to LMS, and perhaps Verizon Wireless Amphitheater. Also today, I was thinking about how ridership of the NE line will flux between college being in session or not at UNCC. Also, how the NE line could see some of the heaviest traffic in the evenings versus normal rush hour.

It will be rather interesting. I still expect to see the University stations heavily used during the summer months because I know a lot of people that still live within a mile of the university all year round with 12 month leases. Also, much of the summer has summer courses, various summer camps, all of the sporting and intramural activities, student orientations, and full time staff on location. I'm expecting sort of a consistent ridership from the early hours through the late night wee hours since the University is covering a large variation of ages and demographics- from workers, to commuters, to part time students, to full time 'living-on-campus' students.

[grodney]

Strange happenings at Stonewall yesterday afternoon. It wasn't a guy handing out bottles of beer, but it was abnormal.

I'm sitting at Stonewall Station at 3:45pm waiting for the Southbound 3:50, when over some loudspeaker comes a live voice saying "ATTENTION TO THE WOMAN ENTERING STONEWALL STATION: YOU WERE TOLD TO LEAVE. IF YOU DO NOT EXIT ONTO THE ROAD, SOMEONE WILL COME AND GET YOU.".

I couldn't figure it out, but after about a minute, two young ladies came walking out of the Convention Center tunnel toward the Stonewall Station, walking RIGHT NEXT to the tracks. As they reached the station, the voice came on again: "ATTENTION TO THE TWO LADIES AT THE STONEWALL STATION: YOU CAN'T WALK ACROSS THE TRAIN BRIDGES. THERE ARE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAYS BELOW. ETC ETC.". These two ladies didn't break stride, didn't look up, nothing. They just kept chatting and strolling. It really appeared they had no idea the booming voice was talking to them. I have no idea if they even heard it.

They were about 3/4 of the way through the platform (walking south on the northbound side) when the next northbound train came. It stopped short of its normal stopping point, and the driver leaned out the window, got their attention and started "talking" to them. I was waiting southbound, and my train was just arriving, so I couldn't hear what was being said and didn't get to see the outcome. But before the driver stopped, the ladies certainly looked like they had every intention of continuing to walk south along the tracks, as they weren't crossing over to the Westin side, and there aren't any platform exits on the northbound side. The driver was still talking to them after I boarded and our southbound train departed. Crazy.

[Appetite for Construction]

I had a similar experience at the East/West Station a few months ago. Someone had hopped down on the tracks and a voice came over the loudspeaker and told them to get back up on the platform. No train was in sight, so I assumed it was coming from the control room.

I haven't been lucky enough to run into the guy handing out bottles of beer.

[tozmervo]

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/A...+Us/PR81908.htm

Our little Lynx is just shy of 17,000 average weekday trips. Sans Lynx, CATS saw bus ridership up 13% over last year. Over yonder at the O', Kieth Parker thinks that they could break their 2025 goal of 18,100 daily trips. There's also a comment that special events haven't been a big part of that number, which hasn't been my perception.

I'm curious to see how weekend ridership has panned out since they rolled out a 15 minute lead during the day.

[InSouthPark]

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/CATS/A...+Us/PR81908.htm

There's also a comment that special events haven't been a big part of that number, which hasn't been my perception.

How would they know about big event ridership? Not once when I have been on train for a large event have I ever seen a Cats official on the train. Fan Fest for example. The trains were squished full. Not Cats employees around. Sunday morning at 10am...you see someone counting.

[Guest]

How would they know about big event ridership? Not once when I have been on train for a large event have I ever seen a Cats official on the train. Fan Fest for example. The trains were squished full. Not Cats employees around. Sunday morning at 10am...you see someone counting.

Well there two cameras in each train, So that could have something to do with it?

[Spartan]

How would they know about big event ridership? Not once when I have been on train for a large event have I ever seen a Cats official on the train. Fan Fest for example. The trains were squished full. Not Cats employees around. Sunday morning at 10am...you see someone counting.

For what its worth, they have cameras at every station and on every train. All they would have to do is use the footage to count how many full trains there are, assume the trains are at their maximum capacity, then multiply.

[Andyc545]

For what its worth, they have cameras at every station and on every train. All they would have to do is use the footage to count how many full trains there are, assume the trains are at their maximum capacity, then multiply.

Don't they have all of the trains equipped with sensors now at the doors so it counts the amount of movement in and out of a train, then just divide it by 2 assuming each person is entering and leaving once. This could realistically give an accurate estimate on a daily basis since these should be monitored and sent directly to the main computer system at the operating center. I don't know how much of an effect events have although they should have a general positive contribution, but I do know our ridership is truly unbelievable and I don't think that can be argued.

[monsoon]

..... I don't think that can be argued.

Isn't that in fact what is taking place in this discussion?

If CATS doesn't want these kinds of questions they should publish their methodology for determining ridership as well as allow an independent auditor verify what they are doing. Why should this happen? CATS is receiving something like $100M/year in tax money plus whatever it collects at the fare boxes. This is an amazing amount of money and some meaningful measurement, which doesn't exist, should be applied to CATS and its management to determine if they are spending that amount of money wisely.

While the Lynx line "seems" to be doing well in terms of ridership, I can't help but notice the number of empty buses that CATS continues to run around the metro.

[MZT]

I don't think LYNX is "growing by leaps and bounds" anymore. The people inclined to use it, are on the train. The next wave of riders will probably be from the people moving into The Silos, Circle, etc.

Edited August 24, 2008 by MZT

[Miesian Corners]

While the Lynx line "seems" to be doing well in terms of ridership, I can't help but notice the number of empty buses that CATS continues to run around the metro.

Which ones are those? The Randolph and SouthPark-UNCC buses I ride are always full. I had to stand last week from Cotswold to uptown on two different occasions.

[monsoon]

^Well there are two things. The last study that I saw indicated that CATS does have a cost effectiveness issue with its buses that means they are running a lot of empty buses. If you want to actually see some, I recommend you go and look at any of the village riders that circulate all day long with nobody on board. It isn't because people won't ride transit in these areas, because the x-press buses are always full, but because CATS runs such a poor service that almost nobody can depend on these lines. And if running empty buses wasn't bad enough, they just bought bigger ones. It's not limited to just these buses, but since you seem to judge your response based on your experience on a couple of bus rides then this would be the other side of that coin.

The point remains that I think CATS ought to be audited on the $100M that it receives from the taxpayers each year. Maybe for this amount of money they should be moving 25% more people. Nobody knows because there are never any quantifiable yardsticks placed against them.

[Miesian Corners]

I base my response on actually using public transportation.

[monsoon]

I base my response on actually using public transportation.

Except you didn't give us a response. You gave us a personal anecdote about riding on a bus that doesn't seem to be related to the conversation at hand. Gratz however to being a good citizen.