Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[Windsurfer]

Really? Any positive change comes with some negative trade-offs.

Besides, if this land was so important to protect, the bigger issue should have been building the university there in the first place. The addition of transit, if anything, ironically helps mitigate this university's relatively isolated location.

We're going finish off this planet with "trade-offs". My point is this patch of woods ARE worth protecting. I can walk you down there and show you 150 year old walnut trees, deer, and beaver signs. True, it's not a park, but it is on university land....a university that wants to show leadership in 'sustainability'.

[New Name]

I think my personal dream was something like this: St. Etienne, France Light Rail - ​an acknowledgement of existing natural elements with development (but not at the cost of the development).

[tozmervo]

On another thread it was being asked if Charlotte went after any Tiger III grants, and the only one found was a Carolina Thread Trail construction application. As it turns out, the Blue Line platform extension money was Tiger III

http://t.co/79JNBmJz, page 16 [PDF].

I thought $25m seemed really low for expanding all of the platforms. As it turns out, the grant only pays for three stations:

The project will expand capacity on the south corridor of the LYNX Blue Line Light Rail to improve service

during peak hours and for special events. The grant allows the Charlotte Area Transit System to install additional

power substations and extend platforms at three stations– I-485/South Blvd, Third Street, and and Seventh Street–

to fully accommodate demand from both commuters and travelers to major destinations in downtown Charlotte.

(Emphasis Mine) Edited December 15, 2011 by tozmervo

[Sabaidee]

I forgot which article I read it from, but expanding those station allows CATS to operate an express train during major events.

[kermit]

Any investment in the line is a good thing but this is an interesting set of stations to expand since crush loads most frequently come at the CTC / Arena and Stonewall (for BofA Stadium). 3rd street and 7th?????

[southslider]

Original comment (quoted below) retracted, due to new information that 3-car trains would only run during special events, prior to BLE opening in 2016.

Edited December 15, 2011 by southslider

[ajfunder]

Looking at a satelite image, it could just be the surrounding side walk, but it appears the CTC/Arena station has a longer platform then 7th street. So I guess I should ask, is it longer? Also the 3rd street station is closer to BofA stadium and appears to be busy after games.

Alex

[New Name]

Looking at a satelite image, it could just be the surrounding side walk, but it appears the CTC/Arena station has a longer platform then 7th street. So I guess I should ask, is it longer? Also the 3rd street station is closer to BofA stadium and appears to be busy after games.

Alex

Yeah I was thinking this too.... it seems to me that CTC and Stonewall might already be able to handle 3-car trains...

[ajfunder]

Also, are there any plans to extend the other platforms in the near future since the extension will have three car platforms. I wonder how they will extend the elevated station at Tyvola. That seems like a fairly large project and I wonder how they plan to do it.

Alex

Edited December 15, 2011 by ajfunder

[Sabaidee]

I wouldn't call it an "express train," but rather a "limited-stop" third LRV car. Basically, those who boarded the third car at I-485 would only be able to alight at 3rd or 7th Streets, but they still would be tied to a train making all stops between Uptown and I-485.

This strategy seems aimed at serving current travel patterns, where regular workday long-distance riders would now have the option to board a "limited-stop" third car. CTC is the busiest station overall in Uptown, but that station also has a greater mix of short-distance and long-distance riders, so a third car boarding area could be more confusing for that station's ridership. It's also likely easier to have daily riders better understand the third car's operations than less frequent and potentially novice riders who only take LYNX for special events.

However, I do worry about a perceived classism, if this is truly the strategy. A separation between short-distance and long-distance riders makes sense logistically. But it can also read as a class separation between the transit-dependents transferring at CTC and the select transit-choice commuters that park at I-485. Put another way, the LYNX line shouldn't read like a train with separate cars perceived as "1st class" cars.

The Business Journal article said it'll be initially for special events in Uptown. However since CATS wants the entire line including the BLE to have 3 train cars set and the BLE coming online by 2017 and the platform expansion being completed in 2015. I say CATS shouldn't confuse riders for a situation that will only last for a couple of years and keep it for special events. Personally when I use the light rail for an event Uptown, I'd rather board at 7th Street station than the CTC to find a seat. The 3rd Street expansion makes sense for Panthers games boarding.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Shawn&Zae

[kermit]

So I spent a chunk of the weekend reading through the South Light Rail Transit thread that got started in 2005. I was struck by the fact that in some ways we are much better off now:

• Roughly 1/3 of the discussion was focused on fears of low ridership, some of it was racially tinged.
  
• There were similar worries about the LRT ‘generating’ crime
  
• Substantial discussion focused on ‘overbuilding’ the line (the grade separations at Woodlawn, Tyvola and Archdale. Double tracking bridges in uptown etc.) was needlessly inflating costs.
  
• Worries about the Scalybark weave causing traffic problems on S blvd and not crossing 485 into downtown Pineville negatively impacting ridership (there was also very early talk of a spur to Carolina Place Mall)
  
• Fear that the CTC station would look like “a carport in a trailer park” (its funny because its true!)
  
• Only one company bid on the station construction work on the BLE – it appeared that construction costs were astronomical due to Katrina rebuilding / Chinese demand for construction 'stuff'
  
  In some other ways were are now much worse off. Discussion of the schedule attached to the 2025 transit plan really makes me sad (these two quotes are from posts around September 2005):
  
  

  
  Here is CATS's current order and timeline. the range is start and end of construction.
  
  S LRT: 2005-2008
  N CRT: 2007-2009
  Trade Streetcar:2007-2009
  SE BRT: 2010-2013
  W BRT/Streetcar: 2010-2013
  NE LRT to NoDa: 2011-2013
  BF and Central Streetcar: 2015-2017
  NE LRT to 485/LMS: 2016-2018 [The UNCC extension certainly did jump to the head of the line!]
  Center City Streetcar spurs: 2022-2025
  

  
  or to put it another way (from 2005)
  
  

  In 2013, the core of the system will be built, with lines in all five directions plus a short streetcar downtown. The subsequent 12 years of the next 20 years will basically just be the street car spurs/extensions and the University City extension.

  
  Some of the other bummers from 2005:
  • Development was also expected to explode at the South end of the line (Arrowood and Archdale) -- many specific parcels appeared to be 'in play' back during the boom
    
  • Loss of a cantilevered LRT bridge over 277 which would have accommodated a pedestrian route over 277. While I would really like to have this bridge now, the inability to walk through the convention center makea its loss less tragic.
    
  • I had completely forgotten that Gateway station was planned to be on the Independence blvd / Westward LRT / BRT route – it really was not disconnected from the LRT network in the original plan
    

  It was an interesting look back. It appeared (to me) that we had avoided just about everything we were afraid of and the BLE turned out to be much more useful than we expected. Despite that we have fallen decades behind the original schedule.

Edited January 16, 2012 by kermit

[Norm2]

Wow, you read quite a bit! How long did it take you to read though everything!? I am glad that most of our fears did not become reality.

[kermit]

Yeah I was thinking this too.... it seems to me that CTC and Stonewall might already be able to handle 3-car trains...

I eyeballed the platforms at Stonewall and CTC. It appears that both platforms are exactly long enough for 3-car trains, however the elevated portion of both platforms (so level boarding can occur) are only long enough for two cars at the moment. It does look like it would be a straightforward, non-structural fix.

[HopHead]

CATS may be looking to raise bus and rail fares to $2.00 for one way trips. This is becoming a concern to me. I think this fare is justifiable once the LYNX extension is completed. However, at the present moment this borders on too much for some to consider just parking their car uptown, especially if they have one or more people traveling with them.

[carolina_fan]

CATS may be looking to raise bus and rail fares to $2.00 for one way trips. This is becoming a concern to me. I think this fare is justifiable once the LYNX extension is completed. However, at the present moment this borders on too much for some to consider just parking their car uptown, especially if they have one or more people traveling with them.

Yes, they are. The MTC will hold a public hearing on March 28th. Here's their proposed rate increases to start on July 1st:

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/fares/Pages/ProposedFareIncrease.aspx

[DMann]

It has been my experience that a significant number of people regularly put in 2 dollar bills to take a one way ride. I believe there will be some feedback, but in general there should be little resistance to a hike to $2.

[tozmervo]

Atlanta's new streetcar line look aaaaawfully familiar

http://designinghealthycommunities.org/atlanta-getting-new-streetcar-line/

[New Name]

Wow. That's a horrible photoshopping job.

[Sabaidee]

They could at least remove the blue color and the Lynx logo

[dubone]

Yeah, before I got a bus pass I always spent $2 on the bus, but use plastic for Lynx. I think $2 will be fine for most people but hopefully they don't rush to raise it too much. There is some elasticity of demand for transit, and you lose social benefits from raising the price to the point that fewer people ride.

As for ATL, they photoshopped in Peachtree, but left the Lynx brand. That actually seems like a flattering endorsement of the quality of the Lynx branding. The CATS logo's ridiculous MS Paint shading always annoys me, but Lynx was done well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charlotte_CATS_logo.png

[kermit]

The 2012 annual report from the Federal Transit Administration lists the BLE as "recomended" in its budget request to congress for FFGA funding this year (Fiscal 2013). It appears to be the only new starts project recomended for funding this fiscal year. Honestly I don't really know what this means, but today's post at the Transportation Politic seems to think it is a big deal.

http://www.fta.dot.g...ext_1_30_12.pdf

EDIT: and a few hours later the observer has an article on it: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/02/14/3012572/feds-back-70-million-for-charlotte.html

a notable quote from the Observer:

"We don't expect anything to derail it," said Federal Transit Administrator Peter Rogoff Tuesday. "We are very supportive of this project. We don't see any show-stoppers."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/02/14/3012572/feds-back-70-million-for-charlotte.html#storylink=cpy

Edited February 14, 2012 by kermit

[HopHead]

Great news! For the Fed Administrator to come out and say they don't see any road blocks for full approval goes a long way. Very exciting... It will be interesting to how many TOD proposals north of downtown start to pop up in the next year or so... I assume construction of the extension can commence next year once everything gets the final stamp?

[ah59396]

Walking through the CTC station lastnight, I couldn't help but imagine the huge impact on general ridership this extension will create. Not only people heading uptown, but also the number of people heading from SouthEnd to NoDa, UNCC to SE and NoDa, And everything inbetween. I envision this being much more I a transit line with the extension and much less of a commuter line as it is currently (not all the time) treated.

Man I'm pumped.

[New Name]

--- what is the $70M for, exactly? Is it $70M toward the $450? Or....

[kermit]

^ the Observer really dropped the ball with that. I am guessing its for final design and engineering work.