Triad Regional Transit

[cityboi]

another set of rail tracks will be laid down to connect Greensboro and High Point. This will certainly help out in the future when the Triad gets commuter rail. it will be a $20 million project.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70501022

Edited May 1, 2007 by cityboi

[nowensone]

Would be nice if they said where exactly they are to be routed. I think it would be incredible to dedicate a line to commuter rail parallel to the heavy rail line along southern HP Road into Jamestown and HP and make a stop at the old JP campus and turn this area into something VERY cool and different.

[cityboi]

Would be nice if they said where exactly they are to be routed. I think it would be incredible to dedicate a line to commuter rail parallel to the heavy rail line along southern HP Road into Jamestown and HP and make a stop at the old JP campus and turn this area into something VERY cool and different.

That would be very cool!

[nowensone]

^ A little off subject, I went down there Sunday with camera and got shooed away by someone doing something at the JP campus, not sure what (no heavy equipment), I was going to ask the lady but she was not happy I pulled down into that first side entrance where she was parked. At any rate, might have been nothing, but it was hopeful to see [potentially] something happening there. It is appalling for this campus to sit there, becoming overgrown like this, almost like letting the Biltmore get rundown IMO.

So is there any indication of where a second line would go? I had heard a while ago (second hand) of plans to rerout HP Road for some of the length between GSO into HP, which seems incredibly wasteful and stupid, but if part of a master plan to add a transit line then that might make a little more sense.

[orulz]

The article is misleading. There is no new routing. This is merely the installation of a second track parallel to the existing Norfolk-Southern (former Southern) mainline. Think of this as widening a highway within the existing right-of-way.

The whole Southern mainline was historically double track clear from Alexandria to Atlanta, but it was converted to alternating sections of double- and single- track between the 1950s and the 1970s. The space between Greensboro and High Point happened to be one of the segments that got the single-track treatment. NCRR and the NCDOT are now simply undoing this damage. At the rate we're moving, by 2010, all the segments of single track between Charlotte and Greensboro (four segments, totaling 34.9 miles) will be restored to double track.

My source is this post on railfan.net.

[nowensone]

^ Thanks. There appears to be ample space to add parallel tracks in the area I am familiar with (except for a few notable intersections and under I-40), though regarding rerouting, I wasn't thinking rerouting so much as what is the minimum seperation required between heavy and passenger tracks if their use became separated? Or is that not how this works?

[orulz]

Hm. I think you may be a bit confused on the terminology.

First, Heavy Rail != Freight Rail.

The existing tracks are Freght Rail, not Heavy Rail.

1. Heavy rail is like the Subway in New York, or MARTA in Atlanta. Grade-separated rail transit with gated platforms which you must pay to enter. These are regulated by the FTA.

2. Freight rail, or simply railroads, are regulated by the FRA and can support all kinds of traffic. Freight trains, Passenger (Amtrak) trains, and commuter trains can all share a railroad, they just have to meet certain crashworthiness and interchangability standards. The (eventual) PART rail system is proposed in this category.

As the tracks through Greensboro are multipurpose, and can accommodate both freight and passenger traffic, there is no particular restriction for space between tracks beyond clearances. Generallly, parallel tracks are laid with somewhere between 13' and 16' center-to-center (wider in curves).

[nowensone]

^ Yes, confused, have seen reference to heavy rail on this site when talking about subway systems, assumed Heavy and Freight were the same thing. Thank you for the clarification.

[former-ga-girl]

North Carolina Railroad is thinking about new commuter trains that could serve the Triangle and the Triad from Burlington to Goldsboro. It is publish in today's News & Observer.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/647336.html

[Creasy336]

Its great to see the NCRR start getting involved with commuter rail in the state of North Carolina. According to the site the NCRR would look at serving Triad commuters from Clemmons to Burlington, and Triangle Commuters from Burlington to Goldsboro. I am curious to see if the two regions would be broken up with a transfer in Burlington or just one commuter line. I would have to imagine having the regions broken up would be more convenient with fewer delays and better schedules.

[NcSc74]

Its great to see the NCRR start getting involved with commuter rail in the state of North Carolina. According to the site the NCRR would look at serving Triad commuters from Clemmons to Burlington, and Triangle Commuters from Burlington to Goldsboro. I am curious to see if the two regions would be broken up with a transfer in Burlington or just one commuter line. I would have to imagine having the regions broken up would be more convenient with fewer delays and better schedules.

I would like the idea of a commuter service to Goldsboro. I could possibly have a career transfer there and I refuse to live in the little G-boro. No offense but I have been urbanized so I would chose to live in Raleigh. I know plenty of people who make that hour trip everyday.

[JerseyBoy]

I'm glad NCRR is taking initiatives to create an alternative to 40/85 which will undoubtedly become the next 95 of the south in the coming years. It shouldn't cost that much to implement since the rails should already be up to date unless they plan on adding a second line which would raise the price dramatically.

[Creasy336]

A little off topic but I was driving South on I-95 in Virginia last weekend and was in traffic (sometimes completely stopped) from the Springfield interchange (Just outside of Washington DC) to downtown Richmond a distance of well over 100 miles in traffic averaging 30 MPH ,and there were no accidents! I can easily see I-85/I-40 becoming that bad in the upcoming years. DaAchiever I think your statement about the next I-95 is very much on point. If we can get the mid-day Piedmont train added I think NCRR can make all the trains complement each other forming a more comprehensive commuter rail especially between Raleigh and Greensboro. Taking the required reservations to ride off of all Amtrak trains, and adding ticket machines at all stations would go a long way too.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Creasy336

[JerseyBoy]

I know what you mean Creasy, it's a real frustrating drive.

This was a photo I took this past winter on a trip back up north while driving back home on 95.

I can easily see 40/85 becoming like this by 2030 (not as complex highway interchanges and ramps) traffic wise at all hours of the day, in some cases it already is. I go to the Triangle pretty frequently and the norm speed is always around 75-85 mph with truck and commuter traffic filling up all lanes. I'd like to see the DOT start adding HOV lanes to every new interstate project in the Triad that is projected to have high traffic levels soon and in the future. The recent widening of I-40 near PTI was a huge missed opportunity for implementing these. Eventually I think 40/85 will have them from the Triad to the Triangle.

[twincity]

oooo....395 is a nightmare. i hope 40/85 doesnt get that bad, but it will in fact get worse over the years.

not as ovbvious but the western half of the triad is also blending with 704 via Davie County.

Edited July 25, 2007 by twincity

[JerseyBoy]

Yes, on a recent trip to Charlotte via I-40 to 77 I noticed how many developments were popping up in Iredell and Davie Counties. With the exception of the portion of I-85 from the 52 merge to the Spencer exit after the Yadkin River Bridge, sprawl is already connecting the Triad with Charlotte via 85.

[Creasy336]

A short-term fix for I-40/85 would be to extend all of the on-ramps to the next exit's off-ramps between I-840 and Mebane Oaks Rd. Only 3 bridges would have to be reconstructed due to future interchanges planned. But back to the NCRR subject. Having commuter rail from essentially Winston-Salem to Burlington is major. It would give Winston-Salem a critical link to Amtrak in Greensboro (until the SEHSR comes online), this line would also give us a chance for a stop at PTIA and give it a much needed boost in passenger traffic. If the commuter line was scheduled with existing amtrak trains (plus the future mid-day piedmont train) the Triad's way of life could change dramatically. Students could ride the trains to school being that every university and college seems to be located in close proximity to the rail corridor (excluding Wake Forest Univerity), people could also commute to work. Lets face it...if this commuter line ever happens, it will come into fruition way before PART starts its commuter rail line. To me PART's commuter line sounds just like all the other cities and regions on Urban Planet who hope to have commuter rail but thats about it. Atleast the people who own the tracks are interested in possibly making this happen.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Creasy336

[cityboi]

A short-term fix for I-40/85 would be to extend all of the on-ramps to the next exit's off-ramps between I-840 and Mebane Oaks Rd. Only 3 bridges would have to be reconstructed due to future interchanges planned. But back to the NCRR subject. Having commuter rail from essentially Winston-Salem to Burlington is major. It would give Winston-Salem a critical link to Amtrak in Greensboro (until the SEHSR comes online), this line would also give us a chance for a stop at PTIA and give it a much needed boost in passenger traffic. If the commuter line was scheduled with existing amtrak trains (plus the future mid-day piedmont train) the Triad's way of life could change dramatically. Students could ride the trains to school being that every university and college seems to be located in close proximity to the rail corridor (excluding Wake Forest Univerity), people could also commute to work. Lets face it...if this commuter line ever happens, it will come into fruition way before PART starts its commuter rail line. To me PART's commuter line sounds just like all the other cities and regions on Urban Planet who hope to have commuter rail but thats about it. Atleast the people who own the tracks are interested in possibly making this happen.

realistically, Id say at least 12 to 15 years before commuter rail becomes a reality and thats at least. This is not something thats going to happen tommorrow.

[JerseyBoy]

realistically, Id say at least 12 to 15 years before commuter rail becomes a reality and thats at least. This is not something thats going to happen tommorrow.

Especially in this area. On a side note, has anyone else felt that PART is a failed organization? I know they've added routes to Boone and Mount Airy, but I see their buses going to and from Winston to PTI and they are always practically empty. It makes me wonder how they survive and keep those buses running.

[cityboi]

I dont know how they are keeping things going, certainly there arent enough passengers on the regional bus system for a rail system. I think if developers build high-density mixed use project near planned rail stops and along the rail line, just maybe regional rail service will come faster and thats only if the downtowns and airport area attract alot more jobs.

[Creasy336]

realistically, Id say at least 12 to 15 years before commuter rail becomes a reality and thats at least. This is not something thats going to happen tommorrow.

Sadly, I might have to agree as far the Triad is concerned. Maybe we'll get some commuter rail from the Triangle into Alamance County though. an responding to DaAchiever I feel you might be correct as far as saying that PART might be a failed organization but what could they do to be better?

[cityboi]

Sadly, I might have to agree as far the Triad is concerned. Maybe we'll get some commuter rail from the Triangle into Alamance County though. an responding to DaAchiever I feel you might be correct as far as saying that PART might be a failed organization but what could they do to be better?

I dont think they are doing a good enough job with advertising or promoting their services.

[Creasy336]

for starters the name PART is kind of cheesy ... But seriously, I guess I need to check their website, but does PART serve the Triad's major employment centers?? Is it ineffective transit in that it doesn't go where the people need to go effectively. I remember when I was younger I would catch the blue line TTA bus in Chapel Hill and go to South Square mall. This was a popular route and easily accessible from Franklin Street. Is it just me but I don't think that this hub and spoke system works well with our local bus systems. If we can correct whats wrong on the local level, the regional level should have more success.

[cityboi]

for starters the name PART is kind of cheesy ... But seriously, I guess I need to check their website, but does PART serve the Triad's major employment centers?? Is it ineffective transit in that it doesn't go where the people need to go effectively. I remember when I was younger I would catch the blue line TTA bus in Chapel Hill and go to South Square mall. This was a popular route and easily accessible from Franklin Street. Is it just me but I don't think that this hub and spoke system works well with our local bus systems. If we can correct whats wrong on the local level, the regional level should have more success.

PART claims passengers are increasing on their bus service but time will tell just how successful it will be.

[orulz]

A big part of this is that PART has been running fixed-route buses since 2002. TTA has been running buses since 1993 (Or is it 1997? Depends on how you look at it.)

However, do you think that maybe the Triangle also has a bit more of a regional mindset than the Triad? The Triangle still struggles with balkanization but perhaps not as much as the triad. Not to mention that Durham-Raleigh-Chapel Hill-Cary etc are geographically closer than Greensboro and Winston-Salem.