Gard

Five Points in Raleigh

105 posts in this topic

Nice to see some density proposed for this area. To go forward though, he has to get the city to rezone it and I'm certain a smart growth council will go along with this. It would be a nice addition to this part of town IMO.

"Lewis wants to level three houses that sit on the property. That would make way for a three- to four-story building with condominiums or luxury apartments atop offices, shops and restaurants. He hopes to complement the businesses in the older buildings at Fairview, Glenwood Avenue and Whitaker Mill Road. "We could sure stand another bit of retail down there," Lewis says."

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/792693.html

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I think it would be a crime to bulldoze those beautiful historic houses on Fairview Rd. I think the entire street would be threatened if these dominoes fell. It is one of the most beautiful and architecturally distinctive streets in Raleigh. I am for smart growth, but smart must not mean that we worship at the altar of increased density and allow Raleigh's character to be destroyed.

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I think it would be a crime to bulldoze those beautiful historic houses on Fairview Rd. I think the entire street would be threatened if these dominoes fell. It is one of the most beautiful and architecturally distinctive streets in Raleigh. I am for smart growth, but smart must not mean that we worship at the altar of increased density and allow Raleigh's character to be destroyed.

I highly doubt the entire street would be threatened. I myself live in a house about a block down from the Wachovia on Fairview. We aren't going anywhere. If you knew the community that lives around here, the homeowners are fairly tied down. Most of these homes have been in families for years and years.

The thing that makes Five Points what it is, is partly due to the homes that are adjacent to it. My opinion at least anyway. Those three homes I feel can go as they are still within the justifyable commercial area of Five Points. Anything past that last house is venturing into residential area. The Wachovia goes about one house past the third that the developer wants to knock down.

What I'd really like to see knocked down is that horriblely ugly AudioBuys building on the one point.

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Agree with Audio Buys and I'd like to see better frontage than the two gas stations. I wish there was a better place for them.

I don't mind the new development on fairview, but those houses are fairly distinctive. Is there anywhere we could move them, instead of tearing them down?

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If the three houses could be moved and replace the First Citizens bank, the gas staion across Glenn from it, and the Audio Buys, it would do wonders for the area. Those are the worst buildings in the area, and would free up the space along Fairview. There would still be a gas station on either side of Glenwood, though one of those could go as well. There might be a net loss of one or two spaces at Audio Buys, but that would be a small price to pay.

Removing the triangle shaped First Citizens and having the moved house be more in line with the existing Fairview shops would create a more unified front and free up space behind it. Removing the "garage" of the smaller gas station on the west side of Glenwood would sharpen that "point".

Looking at the map, there seems to be six points, but who is counting? There are five streets that approact the main intersection -- Glenn Ave, Fairview, Glenwood, White Oak, and Whittaker Mill. The six points are created by Glenwood, Fairview, and a combined Glenn/Whittaker Mill.

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Not that this will happen, but why not get rid of that horrible electronics building (the brown 2 story one that looks like a boxy mushroom). That corner could use some redevelopment. These houses need to be protected, and the area should focus on updating the ugly and outdated buildings. I love those houses, but do want to see development in that area, just not involving demolishing great homes. The Gas Stations are fine, but the Rite Aid (eckerds) could be redone to be facing the street and that brown building could be demolished and fixed as well, as well as the first citizens (or that bank) on the corner of Fairview and Glenn Street. The area has alot of potential to be a dense neighborhood center with a mix of old and new buildings (maybe with residential above) and historic homes.

Sorry... I didn't read the topic before me... I kind of repeated what that person said, although I don't agree with moving the homes.

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I think the fact that the developer is working with the neighborhood up front is a major plus. I don't have a problem with it so long as the scale is right. In general, I think 4-stories is appropriate for an infill site next to a single family neighborhood. As we grow, there will be more cases like this, so it will be important to strike the right balance between density and context.

I think this may be a version of the project, although who knows if this is the current design... you can get a feel for the scale (notice the Five Points Post Office on the left):

FivePoints-lg.jpg

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Well that looks pretty decent.

The article mentioned they wanted to put it close to the street, but hopefully not too close. If a tennant wanted to do a "sidewalk cafe" type thing, there would be no room.

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Some history of the area gleaned from pictures at The Pointe. There once was a traffic circle here...some people probably know that though...also Audio Buys sits where the original Piggly Wiggly was...it faced Fairview. I think Glenn Ave was added a few years after the Five Points name was bestowed, and the name may have had something to do with the trolley stop nearby but thats just a guess. There was a big brick warehouse behind The Pointe and BP adn one wall still stands. There has always been a gas station on the BP site though the service area backed up against The Point originally.

With that it mind, I think scale should really be respected in Five Points. It got it right from the start with connected streets, mixed use form and transit.....freakin' perfect actually! Great Cities do not alwasy have to be highrise so I think any proposal here needs to be 4 stories or less. I also think these houses are not terribly historic despite their 1920's to 1930's vintage, construction techniques and materials were becoming modern by then. I still don't want them demolished....I am sure habitat for humanity would be glad to have them. I like the thought of keeping them in Five Points....how about put them along Fairview in the Baptist parking lot. Also ringing the masonic temple could be option since that property is up for development too and the neighbors don't want density there.

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I like the scale of the proposed development. Not too dense but dense enough imho.

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I like the scale of the proposed development. Not too dense but dense enough imho.

I like it too, maybe this will spur some redevelopment of existing retail in the area. Not into the neighborhood, but I'd love to see similar things happen with the AudioBuys property and the bank property. Have more ground level retail at each point and then stick residential on top. Put the bank and AudioBuys into one of the new ground level retail spaces.

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Thanks for posting the pic Chief. It looks from the picture like that would be the perfect type of density this area needs. Not too big and not too small, just right.

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One thing I don't like about Five Points is that the audio buys, gas station and first citizens buildings to not front the actual corners, unlike the pharmacy. More density at the actual corners could make all of Five Points more interesting for pedestrians.

Anything 4-5 stories might be out of place at the corners, but I like it at the proposed location. I just hope they could save those houses.

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how about put them along Fairview in the Baptist parking lot.

I am guessing the church wouldn't see this as such a good idea, since they have a pretty small parking lot, compared to their congregation, as it is.

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If they did save the houses, they don't necessarily need to be put back in Five Points. They be 1000x better to replace a tear-down than some mcmansion.

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If they did save the houses, they don't necessarily need to be put back in Five Points. They be 1000x better to replace a tear-down than some mcmansion.

True, but moving a house very far in or out of 5-points is quite a task with narrow streets and Wade Ave/Glenwood bridge capacity etc. I still say the church should take the houses, put them in the parking lot and rent them to needy families in their congregation.....you know families making less than 100k per year. Church parking lots should be taxable. This would then make the decision to demo neighboring houses for parking much more difficult but that is off topic.

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Thanks for the picture, Chief. As the new building will be next to the post office, I suppose that fabulous stone and half-timber Tudor Revival house will also be torn down. It is not one of the three houses owned by the developer in the story. So really four beautiful historic houses will be torn down. Yet those ugly, non-historic gas stations and audio place will remain. What a shame. Where is the vision?

The Baptist Church won't take the houses. They have been tearing down beautiful houses for years, the most recent on Sunset just a year or two ago.

People wonder how we could have torn down so much of historic Raleigh. "We just didn't appreciate historic architecture back in the 50s and 60s . . . and 70s and 80s and 90s and early 21st Century."

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True, but moving a house very far in or out of 5-points is quite a task with narrow streets and Wade Ave/Glenwood bridge capacity etc. I still say the church should take the houses, put them in the parking lot and rent them to needy families in their congregation.....you know families making less than 100k per year. Church parking lots should be taxable. This would then make the decision to demo neighboring houses for parking much more difficult but that is off topic.

That's never going to happen. As said earlier, that church is not going to give up it's parking lot. Drive through here on a Sunday morning and you'll see that those lots are packed and EVERY street in about a 4 block radius down Fairview is bumper to bumper parking, including side streets. Drive by late Saturday or early before mass on Sunday morning and the church actually puts cones out on all the corners in the neighborhood vicinity to prevent people from blocking people from seeing around corners.

There are a few vacant lots in the Five Points neighborhood, south of Fairview toward Wade that houses could be placed on.

Also, check out Google maps, apparently they just added a new view option called "Terrain View". I saw it while trying to find some open lots, kinda cool. Now "Hybrid View" is a sub-view of "Satellite View".

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Let me clarify since my sarcasm isn't making it through...I do not really think the church will take the houses....the suggestion is a backdoor way of pointing out how bad of a neighbor and contributor to the neighborhood the church is.....I remember a 1914 two story home fronting Fairview bulldozed two or three years ago for parking (now where the expansion is). Their hurricane Floyd trailer that they donated to a family down east probably equals the amount an average family puts in the plate each year there (I thought it was a pathetic attempt at "help"). They also claim my old favorite parking space along White Oak with a school unloading sign. It is a private school...why do they get exclusive access to public road space. Simply put I do not like them and have plenty of objective reasons to rest on and love to point them out.

Aside from that I always thought the Tudor was part of the three but have not checked tax records to verify. First Citizens is a bad neighbor all over this town....imploding a 1912 Gothic revival mid-rise office building.....bad decision. Move the bank to the Audio Buys spot and stick another building that fnctions like Hayes Barton Pharmacy (with apartments on top) on the First Citizens spot.

Edited by Jones133

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That's never going to happen. As said earlier, that church is not going to give up it's parking lot. Drive through here on a Sunday morning and you'll see that those lots are packed and EVERY street in about a 4 block radius down Fairview is bumper to bumper parking, including side streets. Drive by late Saturday or early before mass on Sunday morning and the church actually puts cones out on all the corners in the neighborhood vicinity to prevent people from blocking people from seeing around corners.

This made me chuckle...DPK, haven't been in a Baptist Church much?

:rofl: This is one of the stodgiest churches in town. Hayes Barton Baptist, White Memorial Presbyterian, and Edenton Street Methodist are the Holy Trinity of old money white Protestantism in Raleigh.

Edited by JeffC

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This made me chuckle...DPK, haven't been in a Baptist Church much?

:rofl: This is one of the stodgiest churches in town. Hayes Barton Baptist, White Memorial Presbyterian, and Edenton Street Methodist are the Holy Trinity of old money white Protestantism in Raleigh.

Haha, you caught me. :whistling:

I have been once though, when my roommate took me to his church one weekend. I'm Catholic so it was a switch and I didn't feel quite right about things. When I was typing "mass" I knew that wasn't right but I couldn't remember what they call whatever it is, so I just rolled with it. :dontknow:

And Jones, sorry if I sounded accusatory, my sarcasm detector must have been malfunctioning the other day. This week has been busy/stressful so I blame it on that.

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Maybe someone there reads UrbanPlanet and saw my comment about how there's basically no landscaping outside of those houses. Today there's a bunch of guys out there planting things, lol.

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Sorry if this is already in discussion - I searched Hayes Barton and Harvey st but didn't find anything.

What are they doing there where Harvey St is closed @ the light on Glenwood? Is it just routine improvements to the drainage systems?

Moderators note: merged this topic with the Five Points topic.

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