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Is it time to ask for a property tax increase to build transit faster?


monsoon

Is it time to ask for a property tax increase to build transit faster?  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it time to ask for a property tax increase to build transit faster?

    • No - Taxes are too high here
      34
    • Yes - City should invest in transit
      22


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I would not support increased property taxes for transit. I would lobby against such an increase. Charlotte is still in the 19th century as far as revenue sources go. Look around at other growth states, or even within NC at progressive cities. I would support an increase in sales tax to a penny, or support an Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance or Transportation Impact Fees.
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It seems like raising gas tax maybe 5 cents a gallon would do it. That isn't going to really hurt anyone. Besides, the more gas prices go up, the more likely ridership support will occur for light rail. I don't feel that raising property tax is fair since we are dealing specifically with transportation issues. My next choice would be sales tax, but that is far down the line from my first choice of gas tax.

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I don't see a gas tax happening. Since you're in FLA you may not know about the "Stop the Gas Tax!" effort that took place a few years ago, and that was to block only a few percent increase when gas was half what it is now.

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In my opinion, the gas tax in the US should be at least doubled, perhaps tripled, and all the proceeds should be used to develop mass transportation options OTHER than roads & airports, such as a meaningful passenger rail system, more freight rail capacity, light & heavy rail transit for first- and second- tier cities, and useable buses everywhere else.

That, IMO, is the first step towards injecting some sanity into transportation policy in the United States. And guess what? Doubling the gas tax won't come close to doubling the cost of gas. It'll bring it from $3.00 / gallon to about $3.80 / gallon. We could enact it right now without wreaking havoc on our current transportation network or on interstate commerce, but it would provide an additional disincentive to driving, and would provide an enormous amount of revenue for developing transportation alternatives.

Unfortunately nobody seems to be able to stand up to the public and make the case for a higher gas tax, for fear of reprisal on election day.

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^ While I agree very strongly with your reasoning, I would note that a sudden surge in the gas tax would have a very detrimental effect on the shipping and transportation industry. As a nation we are very much reliant on truckers to circulate goods across the interstate highway system; and Charlotte in particular has a rather heavy investment in the distribution industry. Since truckers are often responsible for paying for their own gas, this could be enough to force a lot of them into other professions and therefore skyrocket the price of shipping... which in turn would skyrocket the price of pretty much every product that we buy.

Something to consider.

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^ While I agree very strongly with your reasoning, I would note that a sudden surge in the gas tax would have a very detrimental effect on the shipping and transportation industry. As a nation we are very much reliant on truckers to circulate goods across the interstate highway system; and Charlotte in particular has a rather heavy investment in the distribution industry. Since truckers are often responsible for paying for their own gas, this could be enough to force a lot of them into other professions and therefore skyrocket the price of shipping... which in turn would skyrocket the price of pretty much every product that we buy.

Something to consider.

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^ I get the impression that rail is already utilized as much as possible in shipping, but it can only do so much. Unlike trucks, trains can only unload at a limited number of locations. Also, small towns often don't receive freight train service at all, or if they do it is very limited compared to their capacity to receive goods via truck. And even once the goods arrive, they still have to be loaded onto trucks for delivery.

So I really don't think that a sudden jump in the gas tax would be all that beneficial in the big scheme of things, unless diesel was made immune -- and making diesel immune would pretty much negate any environmental benefits of the tax increase. While environmental concerns and movement toward mass transit are important, if they harm the community's fundamental economic structure they will be a moot point. A crash in the distribution industry would leave little money for projects of any kind, least of all new rail lines.

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^ I get the impression that rail is already utilized as much as possible in shipping, but it can only do so much. Unlike trucks, trains can only unload at a limited number of locations. Also, small towns often don't receive freight train service at all, or if they do it is very limited compared to their capacity to receive goods via truck. And even once the goods arrive, they still have to be loaded onto trucks for delivery.

So I really don't think that a sudden jump in the gas tax would be all that beneficial in the big scheme of things, unless diesel was made immune -- and making diesel immune would pretty much negate any environmental benefits of the tax increase. While environmental concerns and movement toward mass transit are important, if they harm the community's fundamental economic structure they will be a moot point. A crash in the distribution industry would leave little money for projects of any kind, least of all new rail lines.

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^ Perhaps not as much "as possible", but rail lines are hardly ignored in the shipping business.

In any case, the process that you describe above is unhealthy for the economy. For goods that can be produced anywhere -- paper, eggs, corn -- it's not a big deal when distributors start selling more locally. But for products like nuts and saltwater fish, you can't necessarily turn to a local provider. They have to come from specific places, which means that any increase in shipping will be passed directly to the consumer -- and there are thousands of common products that fall under this umbrella. That's a quality-of-life issue that the average person is not going to be very happy about and could potentially devastate certain fragile industries.

While I agree that goods should not be trucked across the country when rail or port services could do the job just as well, I would be very very very hesitant to start ramping up shipping costs across the board. As a nation we are too reliant on truck distribution to do that kind of thing without significant economic fallout.

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I wouldn't call a sales tax increase "progressive". Since sales tax is charged independent of financial ability, it's most stressful toward the poorer end of the economic spectrum. Here in Tennessee we have no state property tax and income tax does not apply to wages; yet sales taxes are usually in the 10% range. This makes it very difficult for poorer people who save almost nothing on property and income tax, yet get hit with an extra 3% or so of sales tax over the national norm.

While a sales tax increase would likely be the most feasible way of generating extra revenue for CATS, we ought to keep in mind that such an increase would pass a disproportionate amount of the "bill" to those least able to pay it.

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The thing about the property tax increase, is the city council could vote to raise it tomorrow to pay for an extension. The other methods, means money won't be available for years if not more than an decade to build more train lines. In the terms of time, it's a lot of lost opportunity.

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The thing about the property tax increase, is the city council could vote to raise it tomorrow to pay for an extension. The other methods, means money won't be available for years if not more than an decade to build more train lines. In the terms of time, it's a lot of lost opportunity.
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