Charlotte Metro Air Pollution and Environment

[dubone]

just because something occurs naturally, does not prove that humans aren't causing a problem. Fires, carbon dioxide, erosion, etc. are all natural things, but humans create an awful lot more of it than would naturally occur, and that is what is causing the adverse affects on human and environmental health.

[A2]

That is funny A2, many people in Atlanta complain that being downstream from high polluting factories in Alabama & western Georgia along with being located in the cusp of the Blue Ridge & Appalachin mountains is a partial reason for the area's pollution.

Of course I don't buy it & fortunately the ARC (regional planning agency) has assisted in Atlanta's improvement of EPA noncompliance.  But we're no where near to full compliance, especially with summer days like this week.  Nonetheless, I would advise that the greatest course is promoting alternative transportation methods within Charlotte rather than blaming it on someone else. 

If any city is getting the raw deal that would be Asheville NC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

teshadoh I apologize for my comment. I agree I should NOT blame other cities, but at the same time it is a REGIONAL problem. I still think the Federal Gov't should not punish a city that is taking serious strides to improve bad air quality. I agree with your post about Asheville, they do get screwed. I also think that the Smokey Mountains of all places take it on the chin from the surrounding cities emitting such a large quantity of air polution. I think that we all need to do better. INCLUDING ME ! I am an advocate of smart growth initiatives as well as not driving the biggest SUV I can find. I think we all are responsible. If that is the case the finger must not point at others, but first point at me.

A2

[teshadoh]

A2, I understand - & being that I live in such a polluted city - I certainly don't take offense to your comments.

Dubone, Mediamongrel, Orulz - I echo your comments. In one sense I do think we should take the issue seriously & tell our politicians we are serious about wanting to promote transit, in one sense actually using it. But also realize that there are additional ingredients in the whole mess that has caused our problem, it's hot in the south & there are numerous factories - all of this results in each individual heat island.

But lastly, though I feel like a sell-out for saying this, our cities are cleaner than they were 100 years ago. Most homes had coal burning furnaces, industrialization resulted in far more high polluting factories adjacent to many neighborhoods & lastly - there was little knowledge of basic environmental issues, water quality was bad, sanitary disposal was horrid & typically trash was dumped wherever.

[atlrvr]

Funny that no one complains about air pollution during winter motnhs OCT-APR.  Weird how it only seems to be "deathly ill" when its hot in the summer.  What, does it suddenly disappear or somethign in the Winter???  Besides the summer pollution problem is way overblown.  Try going to Mexico City and then say we're bad.  Smog and haze are natural occurences when the dewpoint is above 60 and temperatures are in the 90's.  Even Alaska has haze and  smog at times.  It has nothing to do with cars factories or lawnmowers as some would have you believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually yes....for the most part is does disappear....it's the hot air that exacerbates "smog". And how does Mexico City having worse air make ours not too bad. As long as people don't have to cover their mouths with little masks then it must be healthy?

[Miesian Corners]

Funny that no one complains about air pollution during winter motnhs OCT-APR.  Weird how it only seems to be "deathly ill" when its hot in the summer.  What, does it suddenly disappear or somethign in the Winter???  Besides the summer pollution problem is way overblown.  Try going to Mexico City and then say we're bad.  Smog and haze are natural occurences when the dewpoint is above 60 and temperatures are in the 90's.  Even Alaska has haze and  smog at times.  It has nothing to do with cars factories or lawnmowers as some would have you believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's take a trip back to science/chemistry class...

Ozone is a key component of smog. It's mainly a daytime problem during the summer months. You see, strong sunlight and hot weather causes ground level ozone to form in harmful concentrations in the air.

Ozone is not emitted directly into the air. Instead it is formed in sunlight, which initiates a series of complex atmospheric chemical reactions. These reactions primarily involve nitrogen oxide (NOx) and volatile organic compound (VOC) emissions, called precursors.

At ground level, ozone can harm plants and other materials through a process called oxidation. For these reasons, ozone is called a photochemical oxidant.

NOx is produced almost entirely as a by-product of high-temperature combustion.

Common sources of NOx include:

* automobiles, trucks, and marine vessels

* construction equipment

* power generation

* industrial processes

* natural gas furnaces

VOCs include many organic chemicals that vaporize easily, such as those found in gasoline and solvents. They are emitted from many sources, including:

* gasoline stations

* motor vehicles, airplanes, trains, boats

* petroleum storage tanks

* oil refineries

In addition, biogenic, or natural emissions from trees and plants, are a major source of VOCs.

The concentration of ozone in the air is determined not only by the amounts of ozone precursor chemicals, but also by weather and climate factors. Intense sunlight, warm temperatures, stagnant high-pressure weather systems, and low wind speeds cause ozone to accumulate in harmful amounts.

[monsoon]

Okay, this so better get deleted since my "polishing a turd" analogy was deleted in another thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a difference between one who makes a joke about air pollution and one who makes a crude remark towards the people working for nascar. I'm not sure who deleted your post, but I agree with it. For someone with just 9 posts here you are not getting off to a good start.

[poplife88]

Let's take a trip back to science/chemistry class...

Ozone is a key component of smog. It's mainly a daytime problem during the summer months. You see, strong sunlight and hot weather causes ground level ozone to form in harmful concentrations in the air.

Ozone is not emitted directly into the air. Instead it is formed in sunlight, which initiates a series of complex atmospheric chemical reactions. These reactions primarily involve nitrogen oxide (NOx) and volatile organic compound (VOC) emissions, called precursors.

At ground level, ozone can harm plants and other materials through a process called oxidation. For these reasons, ozone is called a photochemical oxidant.

NOx is produced almost entirely as a by-product of high-temperature combustion.

Common sources of NOx include:

    * automobiles, trucks, and marine vessels

    * construction equipment

    * power generation

    * industrial processes

    * natural gas furnaces

VOCs include many organic chemicals that vaporize easily, such as those found in gasoline and solvents. They are emitted from many sources, including:

    * gasoline stations

    * motor vehicles, airplanes, trains, boats

    * petroleum storage tanks

    * oil refineries

In addition, biogenic, or natural emissions from trees and plants, are a major source of VOCs.

The concentration of ozone in the air is determined not only by the amounts of ozone precursor chemicals, but also by weather and climate factors. Intense sunlight, warm temperatures, stagnant high-pressure weather systems, and low wind speeds cause ozone to accumulate in harmful amounts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, my IQ just went up a couple of quotients just reading this.

[mediamongrel]

Wow, my IQ just went up a couple of quotients just reading this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, too bad that's not what my point was. Sounds like an environmentalist's resume. I think he wants us to all drive electric cars as well.

[Miesian Corners]

Yeah, too bad that's not what my point was.  Sounds like an environmentalist's resume.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Odd, because in your previous post you state (and ask):

Funny that no one complains about air pollution during winter motnhs OCT-APR.  Weird how it only seems to be "deathly ill" when its hot in the summer.  What, does it suddenly disappear or somethign in the Winter???  Besides the summer pollution problem is way overblown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I simply responded with science as to why the summer months have worse air quality than in winter. I could have gone a step further with wind and weather patterns (Bermuda Highs are notorious in the summer for blocking any front from passing through the Southeast, thus cleaning the air mass), but that would take us into physical geography and meteorology classes.

Try going to Mexico City and then say we're bad.  Smog and haze are natural occurences when the dewpoint is above 60 and temperatures are in the 90's. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We don't live in Mexico City. We live in a First World nation that supposedly knows how bad pollution is for our planet and for us. Mexico still allows cheaper buring fuels. I can still put leaded gasoline in my tank if I live in Mexico. Besides, it's not called "smog" when it's naturally occuring. The word "smog" (smoke-fog) was first used in the early 1900's to describe polluted air that reduces visibility in urban areas.

Even Alaska has haze and smog at times.  It has nothing to do with cars factories or lawnmowers as some would have you believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for <ahem> clearing that up. Yes, even Alaska has haze and sometimes smog. As far as I know, though, they have never had an ozone alert. There is a difference in what particulates are found in localized air-masses due to (again) physical geography and meteorology and how sunlight and heat changes molecules to O3. As for your last sentence, see my previous post at explaining how these do, in fact, create O3 pollution.

I think he wants us to all drive electric cars as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A hybrid, maybe, but not a total electric car. I myself have a V6 dual-fuel Ford Pick-up. Not the most environmentally friendly vehicle available, but it does burn ethanol as well as gasoline. I also take mass-transit a good bit of the time to save my wallet from the high cost of running my truck and paying for parking. See, completely self-serving reasons that aren't even tied to clean air (although it is a good reason not to drive as A2 pointed out in another thread).

Edited for misspelling. It's "dual" not "duel" as I originally wrote. Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton had a duel...there is a big difference in the two words. I regret the error.

[cinco]

Yeah, too bad that's not what my point was.  Sounds like an environmentalist's resume.  I think he wants us to all drive electric cars as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you clearly were confounded earlier when you wanted to know why everybody was so serious about smog during the summer. MC answered you rather well, however you insist with your limbaugh-esque whining. the truth is you don't really care whether it's smoggier during the winter or summer.

[dubone]

devil's advocacy and rhetorical questions are fine, mm, but please don't mock when people respond genuinely.

[dubone]

what possible solutions does Charlotte have for the smog problem, given that cars aren't going to be much less polluting for another couple decades?

What have other cities done? Is it just a matter of doing transit and carpool campaigns? Are there any examples of broadreaching ordinances that other countries do for high-polluting days, such as banning half the people from the roads on certain days (ie. if your license ends in an odd number, you aren't allowed to drive on Mon/Wed and if an even number, then Tue/Thu or some variation)? I have even read of places where factories must operate at night rather than the day time.

Since we are already in a high-polluting situation, what options do we have as a community?

[ngp]

I think he wants us to all drive electric cars as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see nothing wrong with that. Gas-electric hybrids already produce peak torque from 0mph. Yep, zero miles per hour. It doesn't matter how loud, thirsty, and smelly your big blocks are, you won't get that from internal combustion. A widespread embrace of efficient vehicles will give manufacturers an incentive to improve that technology by upping both low-end and top-end numbers, improving aero, building smaller and lighter regenerative motors, etc.

You'll be able to sit in your traffic jams and listen to Jason Lewis all afternoon long, all the while enjoying excellent fuel economy and low emissions without performance sacrifices.

[monsoon]

I think that Charlotte/Mecklenburg is going to have to pull some measures that are really going to be politically difficult and painful for the politicians to have to deal with. There was a list of suggestions for companies to follow at the beginning of this thread (it was started a long time ago) but there was no political willpower at this point to put them into force. Some companies have done so voluntarily but for the most part there is almost no effort here.

The bad thing is that 20 years ago when we started to have our first air pollution warnings, they knew then what they had to do to stop it. Then we get a decade of much milder summer weather and the issues were forgotten, now it has come back to bite us firmly in the ass given the development that has taken place since then.

In the long run there has to be an end to the mentality of letting development be completely car oriented. In the short term I don't know. Looking at that air pollution map, we are really in bad shape compared to most of the country so I hope they do something.

[atlrvr]

what possible solutions does Charlotte have for the smog problem, given that cars aren't going to be much less polluting for another couple decades? 

What have other cities done?  Is it just a matter of doing transit and carpool campaigns?  Are there any examples of broadreaching ordinances that other countries do for high-polluting days, such as banning half the people from the roads on certain days (ie. if your license ends in an odd number, you aren't allowed to drive on Mon/Wed and if an even number, then Tue/Thu or some variation)?  I have even read of places where factories must operate at night rather than the day time. 

Since we are already in a high-polluting situation, what options do we have as a community?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

London used to execute anyone who burned coal in their house back in the early 1900's.....though I think this practice has fallen out of favor.

I wonder if there is any such thing as a gigantic Ionic Breeze?

[dubone]

i know you were joking about the ionic breeze... but you won't believe this:

titanium dioxide is a chemical that breaks down car exhaust/nitrogen oxide into less problematic chemicals. Not only does it have a broader benefit in cleaning the air, but when used in products like paint and concrete, the chemical has the effect of being self-cleaning (ie. it would look dirty after a few months). As a result, the paint and concrete industries are looking for ways of incorporating it into their products. IF (big IF) this takes off and becomes a universal part of all paint and concrete applications in the country... we could see significant decreases in nox, and subsequently, smog.

A test project of including titanium dioxide in a concrete road resulted in up to 60% lower NOx in the environment around the test road!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/07/22/smog.sc...ing.surface.ap/

It is expensive, though.

[Miesian Corners]

I wonder if there is any such thing as a gigantic Ionic Breeze?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't wait for the late-night infomercial on that. Somebody call Sharper Image now!

[atlrvr]

Excellent....I look forward to a city council here that in the future will require it's use on all public buildings......it seems that many people are so short sighted that they look at the $5 increase in property taxes and scream about it yet blame HMO's for rising health care costs that arise from a country experiencing worse health than a few decades ago.

[atlrvr]

I can't wait for the late-night infomercial on that.  Somebody call Sharper Image now!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dubai has already ordered an earlier prototype.

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=107803

[monsoon]

Just as a side note, Consumer's Reports has dinged the Ionic Breeze for being a bunch of hype (it doesn't work) and even worse, it produces undesirable levels of ozone in your home.

Maybe we need something else. It would make a neat looking skyscraper though.

[Miesian Corners]

The Charlotte Skyline's newest tower....The new Ionic Breeze Quadra

[monsoon]

Haha, they changed the design. That one isn't as pretty as a skyscraper.

[dubone]

if the titanium oxide-based approach is used, the city could just require all new construction to use it in all external paint and concrete. That way ALL buildings and roads could be ionic breezes.

I don't think that is science fiction.

[A2]

The Charlotte Skyline's newest tower....The new Ionic Breeze Quadra

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A2

[teshadoh]

Just as a side note, Consumer's Reports has dinged the Ionic Breeze for being a bunch of hype (it doesn't work) and even worse, it produces undesirable levels of ozone in your home.   

Maybe we need something else.  It would make a neat looking skyscraper though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know about that - my wife being asthmatic goes into fits if our air purifiers are accidentally placed on the 'ion' option.