Great American Sports Complex

[Phizzy]

Since 231 goes only north from Lake Michigan Drive it wont be used by a lot of travelers to this place except to go into Grand rapids and the points east.

[aowwt]

well I am not sure. But considering you wont have to go into allendale have stop lights that might be worth the distance. The essential item when it comes to freeways is this. Provided you dont have congestion, you dont have to stop until you get close to your destination. By cutting out those stops it allows your vehicle to only use gas to maintan speed versus having to start up from nothing to get up to speed.

[GRDadof3]

well I am not sure. But considering you wont have to go into allendale have stop lights that might be worth the distance. The essential item when it comes to freeways is this. Provided you dont have congestion, you dont have to stop until you get close to your destination. By cutting out those stops it allows your vehicle to only use gas to maintan speed versus having to start up from nothing to get up to speed.

[aowwt]

Well I found it. The thing is the 5 year plans they publish only include certian elements. Thats only for rehab work. For the expansion of the system or new style of interchanges it goes under the term "Expanding the system". As a result thats what you need to look at. Right now it appears they are only looking at Enviromental clearence first. Once that is done they plan on doing the Right of Way purchase by the end of this year going into the next. Once those two items are accomplished they will begin construction sometime in 2010 provided funding is still there. It also appears work on M6 is already needed. I guess the noise barriers they built were not good enough and they need to be upgraded between Division Ave to Eastern Ave. BTW the 44th Street SPUI is going to get Right of way purchasing done this year with some that might occur until next year. Construction though will start next year. YIPPEE! As for 196 and baldwin the plan is for it to start this year and into 2010.

[Phizzy]

well I am not sure. But considering you wont have to go into allendale have stop lights that might be worth the distance. The essential item when it comes to freeways is this. Provided you dont have congestion, you dont have to stop until you get close to your destination. By cutting out those stops it allows your vehicle to only use gas to maintan speed versus having to start up from nothing to get up to speed.

[aowwt]

The thing is that you are talking about 196. Thats nice and all and if you live on the west side taking 231 would be pointless. But for most folks that do not live on the west side 231 will be awesome for them. You have to consider that the 196 to 131 ramps are scary. 96 to 131 is much easier to use. Plus if you are going to muskegon or further points north, 231 will be a quick way to get up there than risk going through downtown Grand Haven. I am not sure which will open first but my bet is the Complex opens first. BTW speaking of the US 31 which this is next to, I guess Mdot is doing some work right at that site. Putting in some Michigan Lefts right there on US 31. In anycase the location I am not exactly thrilled about but considering West Olive is going to have put up with the interchange at Lake Michigan Drive they may want to get a head start and consider two things. First setup an A-1 zone for most of the township. I would suggest that only the current complex and the corner at 231 and 45 should get any commerical zoning. The area west of the current 31 should be zoned residential IMHO. Doing those few things should allow West Olive the inability to lose farmland and on top of it should allow a nice growth pontential with the M45 231 interchange. The only other thing I can suggest is maybe request no more than 2 interchanges along the new alignment of 31 south of 45. That way they keep their farm heritage and can continue to be the great fruit growers that they are.

[GRDadof3]

Anyone know how this development is going to get water? I can't imagine a Johnny O'Chili-Bees wanting to rely on well water.

[torgo]

Anyone know how this development is going to get water? I can't imagine a Johnny O'Chili-Bees wanting to rely on well water.

[pr sc]

The thing is that you are talking about 196. Thats nice and all and if you live on the west side taking 231 would be pointless. But for most folks that do not live on the west side 231 will be awesome for them. You have to consider that the 196 to 131 ramps are scary. 96 to 131 is much easier to use. Plus if you are going to muskegon or further points north, 231 will be a quick way to get up there than risk going through downtown Grand Haven. I am not sure which will open first but my bet is the Complex opens first. BTW speaking of the US 31 which this is next to, I guess Mdot is doing some work right at that site. Putting in some Michigan Lefts right there on US 31. In anycase the location I am not exactly thrilled about but considering West Olive is going to have put up with the interchange at Lake Michigan Drive they may want to get a head start and consider two things. First setup an A-1 zone for most of the township. I would suggest that only the current complex and the corner at 231 and 45 should get any commerical zoning. The area west of the current 31 should be zoned residential IMHO. Doing those few things should allow West Olive the inability to lose farmland and on top of it should allow a nice growth pontential with the M45 231 interchange. The only other thing I can suggest is maybe request no more than 2 interchanges along the new alignment of 31 south of 45. That way they keep their farm heritage and can continue to be the great fruit growers that they are.

[d8alterego]

To me, it sounds like the locals want this development because they would be "a destination" for tourists. So no matter what we say here, the developers will still go through with it. In the end, they'll get dupped by the allure of more jobs when big box retailers want in next door and, in return, those big boxes will recreate another 28th street. 20-30 years later, they'll have all regretted that decision because thier town looks like every other big box town. We will all be excited then when we hear of some developer that will want to redevelop much of the properties into a more mixed use area (which by then could cost into the billions when thinking of inflation here). I am starting to think that us UPers are all becoming fortune tellers (although this thread tends to be of the gloom and doom variety).

[GASC]

Hello, we are appreciating reading this blog and have been advised that in todays world of social networks that it is a good thing to respond to some of the aspects of what we are reading. We are sensitive to the dialogue and want to at least clear up some of the misconceptions or at least share more directly our thoughts. The first topic is why this spot? There are several reasons. We are definitely a regional product. Our venues will have both small radius and large radius draw. The GR-Holland-Muskegon triangle is recognized by the census bureau as one of the top 1/3 combined statistical areas (CSA) in the country and the second largest in the state of Michigan. This area is already a region, and many of the things that are going on are more and more referring to the term "region". This location is in the middle of the baseline of this triangle and is just 10-15 minutes from the towns along the lakeshore where people presently live and where others like to go. We belive there will be a natural dispersion that will occurr when people come to the area, because the ability to get to these communities will be easy and quick (remember for most of the country anything under a half hour to travel feels like a walk in the park). We also believe that will be true for the use of the beaches, which are one of the many reasons the lakeshore is already a destination point in the midwest. Yes Kirkpark will get use, but the activities of Ottawa Beach, Grand Haven and Hoffmaster will attract use as well. As for the site itself, and the 15 mile radius, one of the many different studies we have done showed that there is a $1 billion dollar retail opportunity gap. That means there are needs not presently being met. We are not saying that it makes it a no brainer...becasue you have to deliver the right product and service to be successful in todays world. That is why it is very important to us to build a first class facility....not a series of pole barns... We are also engaged in conversation for some medical facilities, educational facilities and additional recreational venues, beside the retail aspects of our plan. This will be a life style location, in that we envision families that are involved in sports and fitness will see this as a place to do "one stop shopping". We have studied many facilities across the country and interviewed many families across the country that are involved in this type of lifestyle and are active participants in what we call the "new american vacation" and know that by creating an environment where the needs and desires of many family members and guests are addressed we will be a coveted location. Also the fact that we are 15 minutes from one of the fastest growing Universities in the state, at least 10 different golf courses and some great fishing ports, does not hurt either. We are appreciative of the townships positive approach to working with us, the land is basically sand and has not been farmed for I believe more than 40 years and yes it is served by public utilities. We know that we will be an environment that will be fun and educational for the youth of the area, including Grand Rapids, and also a great place to play for adults who are still active in their lifestyle...and in the winter time when they bring their kids to particiapte in the use of the facility, they can run just 5 minutes down the road to a great cross country ski trail!! This facility will be a quality of life center that will continue to bolster the West Michigan marketplace as a place to work and play! There are many other aspects that we look forward to unveiling as we move toward the ground breaking of this project...please stay tuned and we will continue to watch your comments in our ongoing attempt to be sensitive to the area and bring a positive product to the region.

[tracer1138]

Thank you very much GASC for giving us your input here on Urban Planet. It's reassuring to know that companies are willing to take interest in the opinions of bloggers and posters on forums who often represent the ideas of everyday people and the interests of the creative and intellectual class.

Welcome to UP!

That being said, there are a few points in this post that I picked up.

That is why it is very important to us to build a first class facility....not a series of pole barns...

From this statement it sounds like your people are acutely interested in the aesthetics of the architectural product - very positive.

The following statement on the other hand worries me a little

This will be a life style location, in that we envision families that are involved in sports and fitness will see this as a place to do "one stop shopping". We have studied many facilities across the country and interviewed many families across the country that are involved in this type of lifestyle and are active participants in what we call the "new American vacation"

It sounds as though the concept for this development was derived from the "lifestyle center" trend that has swept suburban America, offering "one stop shopping" in an auto-oriented environment surrounded by a sea of parking. As a result, we have to ask the question, will this have the same effect as those lifestyle centers have had on nearby downtowns, drawing people away?

Obviously, the nature of spin-off development is not the concern of Nederveld and Associates or their financiers, but GASC must expect us to be wary of a development that promises the "new American vacation" that plays to and even furthers the "new American suburban lifestyle" - especially in this forum.

I can't speak for anyone else here but myself, but from what I have read, I think it's important to note that everyone seems fascinated by the concept of this proposal, and the comments of GASC have indeed continued this interest, but GASC's comments with regard to placement seem to bring-up still more questions for me. It seems like a modern concept riding an old-style wave of development tradition into the ground.

I hope the final concept is more innovative in terms of development trends and environmental sustainability.

Again, welcome to the forum GASC and thank you for you posts.

[GRDadof3]

Thank you very much GASC for giving us your input here on Urban Planet. It's reassuring to know that companies are willing to take interest in the opinions of bloggers and posters on forums who often represent the ideas of everyday people and the interests of the creative and intellectual class.

Welcome to UP!

That being said, there are a few points in this post that I picked up.

That is why it is very important to us to build a first class facility....not a series of pole barns...

From this statement it sounds like your people are acutely interested in the aesthetics of the architectural product - very positive.

The following statement on the other hand worries me a little

This will be a life style location, in that we envision families that are involved in sports and fitness will see this as a place to do "one stop shopping". We have studied many facilities across the country and interviewed many families across the country that are involved in this type of lifestyle and are active participants in what we call the "new American vacation"

It sounds as though the concept for this development was derived from the "lifestyle center" trend that has swept suburban America, offering "one stop shopping" in an auto-oriented environment surrounded by a sea of parking. As a result, we have to ask the question, will this have the same effect as those lifestyle centers have had on nearby downtowns, drawing people away?

Obviously, the nature of spin-off development is not the concern of Nederveld and Associates or their financiers, but GASC must expect us to be wary of a development that promises the "new American vacation" that plays to and even furthers the "new American suburban lifestyle" - especially in this forum.

I can't speak for anyone else here but myself, but from what I have read, I think it's important to note that everyone seems fascinated by the concept of this proposal, and the comments of GASC have indeed continued this interest, but GASC's comments with regard to placement seem to bring-up still more questions for me. It seems like a modern concept riding an old-style wave of development tradition into the ground.

I hope the final concept is more innovative in terms of development trends and environmental sustainability.

Again, welcome to the forum GASC and thank you for you posts.

[Veloise]

Here's a thought: there's an outlet mall in Howell, located adjacent to I-96 (which is a major freeway corridor, at that location connecting metro Detroit and Lansing).

It runs limited hours most of the year, with shops closing at 6 pm M-Th. Distant shoppers do not perceive it as a destination, and highway travelers don't bother stopping.

MDOT (the state department of transportation) has on-line figures showing the ADT (average daily traffic) counts; one could look those up for any existing state highway or interstate.

HTH

[Phizzy]

Sports complex rezoning OK'd

John Smith shook a lot of hands Wednesday night after his proposed $100 million sports complex in Port Sheldon Township received its first township approval.

The township's planning commission voted to rezone 113 acres necessary for the complex -- east of U.S. 31 between Stanton and Fillmore streets -- from agriculture and commercial to a planned unit development.

"This allows us to follow up with dialogue with other people interested in the project," said Smith, an agent at Greenridge Realty, 311 S. River Ave.